• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Duterte tells Trudeau- "Lay off!"

CanadaJohn said:
Not all Canucks - I knew full well what POS was saying, even with just a single pass of his simple statement. However, some have a giant chip on their shoulders and it usually blocks their vision and sense of reason.
Click to expand...

I know. For example, I was referring to the Vancouver Canucks (hence the capital 'C') playing above expectations. The guy I was replying to knew what I was talking about, why didn't you? Bit of a chip there yourself?
 
Grand Mal said:
No, that was about child labour, and how Canada shouldn't support it by making trade agreements with those who employ kids at slave wages.
Like I said, integrity.
Click to expand...

No one knows the real reason why he skipped it. There are several reasons being floated around. If this first reason is true (CHINA!), then all the more Trudeau had no place wagging his finger at Duterte!
That would be so hypocritical!


The irritation of the other delegations — “the Canadians screwed everybody” was one of the kinder remarks — was widely reported, and if it is now maintained that Canada was never going to sign last week and everyone should have known that, it remains unclear how they could have been led to believe otherwise.


Needless to say the Prime Minister’s Office has been less than forthcoming about what his reasons were — and whatever might be said publicly, it may bear only a faint resemblance to reality: negotiations inevitably involve some degree of secrecy and doubletalk. But of the motives that have been floated, with varying degrees of official encouragement, none seems particularly creditable.

One suggestion is that it has something to do with China. The TPP was always one part trade deal, one part geopolitics, being designed as a counterweight to Chinese influence in the region. But the Trudeau government, it is abundantly clear, is embarked upon a strategy of cozying up to China, which it sees as the rising world power. Witness its seeming indifference to security concerns with regard to what remains a hostile power (see, for example, the Norsat satellite deal), its downplaying of human rights abuses (see its refusal to rule out a possible extradition treaty), above all its consuming eagerness for a bilateral free trade deal. Whether Canada should be tilting to China is debatable, but subordinating our broader trade and strategic interests to it would be inexcusable.
Click to expand...
Andrew Coyne: Why did Trudeau miss the TPP meeting? None of the reasons seem creditable | National Post
 
Grand Mal said:
I know. For example, I was referring to the Vancouver Canucks (hence the capital 'C') playing above expectations. The guy I was replying to knew what I was talking about, why didn't you? Bit of a chip there yourself?
Click to expand...

Fair enough - but I'm in Toronto, where a Vancouver hockey team seems like a quaint little joke and not real. I'll accept the moniker of being center of the universe Torontonian chipped.
 
Fearandloathing said:
so we're stupid because we voted for Trudeau.

Nice.

I suggest that Canadian voters are a little bit more informed than Americans, look at your president.
Click to expand...

Good lord. :doh

I was referring to the Philippine voters of Duterte!

Here is the conversation in its entirety (since you cant seem to comprehend it):

RetiredUSN said:
The people of the Philippines give him a 80% approval rating, so they must like something about the guy. Kids in drug gangs have been killing other kids for quite a while, and the people are tired of living around it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...hit-off-hint-both-presidents-brash/858527001/
Click to expand...

And my answer to that was:

PoS said:
Most voters in that country are pretty uneducated, which is why he won the election.
Click to expand...

So tell me, where did I state anything about Canadians? :roll:
 
Sure, and Canada can lay off foreign aid to the Philippines.
 
Napoleon said:
Sure, and Canada can lay off foreign aid to the Philippines.
Click to expand...

Well....why doesn't he meet privately with Duterte on another occasion, and discuss human rights along that line! Stop the killing, or else.

Why not send an "observer" like Bob Rae to the Philippines too?


There's nothing wrong about pushing for human rights......but, diplomacy plays a very big role in it.

The Manila newspaper blasted Trudeau not for speaking about human rights to Duterte, but because Trudeau opened his big mouth to the world and said something like...."yeah, I
talked to him about his atrocious acts....straightened him out on that....and told him I'm his big brother who'll help him toe the line. He was receptive about my sermon, reading him the riot act."

The papers says, Trudeau BRAGGED about it!
Any nation's leader would be insulted being used by anyone to bolster his (Justin) image in the world stage.

You don't publicly insult and humiliate a leader, and expect him not to retaliate!
That's Trudeau's biggest flaw: his big mouth!

From his cheap pot-shots at Trump during the primary race..... to his welcome mat to all those who flee persecution....and now, this!



If Trudeau really cares about the goings-on in the Philippines, he would've talked to Duterte.....and kept quiet about what went on in that talk.

If asked by the press whether he brought up human rights issue, Trudeau could've just said that "we had a positive talk about it." That's all.
If they press him for more details, Trudeau could just say, "it's a private meeting."
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
Well....why doesn't he meet privately with Duterte on another occasion, and discuss human rights along that line! Stop the killing, or else.

Why not send an "observer" like Bob Rae to the Philippines too?


There's nothing wrong about pushing for human rights......but, diplomacy plays a very big role in it.

The Manila newspaper blasted Trudeau not for speaking about human rights to Duterte, but because Trudeau opened his big mouth to the world and said something like...."yeah, I
talked to him about his atrocious acts....straightened him out on that....and told him I'm his big brother who'll help him toe the line. He was receptive about my sermon, reading him the riot act."

The papers says, Trudeau BRAGGED about it!
Any nation's leader would be insulted being used by anyone to bolster his (Justin) image in the world stage.

You don't publicly insult and humiliate a leader, and expect him not to retaliate!
That's Trudeau's biggest flaw: his big mouth!

From his cheap pot-shots at Trump during the primary race..... to his welcome mat to all those who flee persecution....and now, this!



If Trudeau really cares about the goings-on in the Philippines, he would've talked to Duterte.....and kept quiet about what went on in that talk.

If asked by the press whether he brought up human rights issue, Trudeau could've just said that "we had a positive talk about it." That's all.
If they press him for more details, Trudeau could just say, "it's a private meeting."
Click to expand...

Duterte makes a public spectacle of himself and his grievous human rights violations. A public response is only appropriate.
 
reinoe said:
Dutarte is doing what it takes to fix his constituents and his people love him for it. It appears you are not capable of arguing the points presented because you rely exclusively on strawmen and other dishonest tactics because you don't have a leg to stand on.
Click to expand...

Lol. No he's not. He's using death squads to set up total control over the country, and to ensure he can suppress opposition by having dissidents murder. It's pretty standard thug behavior.

His people aren't stupid enough to publicly oppose him and paint a target on their chest.

You are projecting again buddy.
 
Rexedgar said:
Kinda reminds ya of somewhere.......hmm?
Click to expand...

Canada recently?

I agree... the son of a Communist sympathizer and wild child aka loose babe.
 
zimmer said:
Canada recently?

I agree... the son of a Communist sympathizer and wild child aka loose babe.
Click to expand...

Awww, so jelly. The world loves our guy and hates yours. QQ
 
reinoe said:
Dutarte is doing what it takes to fix his constituents and his people love him for it. It appears you are not capable of arguing the points presented because you rely exclusively on strawmen and other dishonest tactics because you don't have a leg to stand on.
Click to expand...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Click to expand...

Human rights violations are human rights violations whether they are drug addicts or not. There have already been reports he is using the drug war as an excuse to take out opponents and that is not too far fetched since he does not seem to care about rights.
 
PoS said:
Good lord. :doh

I was referring to the Philippine voters of Duterte!

Here is the conversation in its entirety (since you cant seem to comprehend it):



And my answer to that was:



So tell me, where did I state anything about Canadians? :roll:
Click to expand...

My sincere apologies, I read it in the context of the OP and that was Trudeau.
 
tosca1 said:
No one knows the real reason why he skipped it. There are several reasons being floated around. If this first reason is true (CHINA!), then all the more Trudeau had no place wagging his finger at Duterte!
That would be so hypocritical!



Andrew Coyne: Why did Trudeau miss the TPP meeting? None of the reasons seem creditable | National Post
Click to expand...


One, he didn't skip it, he was late because his meeting with Japan's Abe went long, which means tough talk. According to Ottawa insiders Abe wanted/needed a "win" to take back to Japan and was arm twisting to get signatures on an agreement "in principle". Canada's foreign affairs people saw it as too much of a commitment for several reasons: huge concessions which had been made to the US were still in the deal even thought Trump had pulled out.

He was backed 100% by Mexico on that as they had the same concerns.

At the end of the day, Canada's requested changes had been met.

Trudeau sends a message, or three, on Asian summit tour - Politics - CBC News

Canadians need to stop reading Andrew Coyne. He's an American on the inside but too much of a coward to give up Canadian benefits, he has had it out for Trudeau since they crossed paths in Vancouver 20 years ago

So the agreement in principal was not signed, however the rema
 
Napoleon said:
Sure, and Canada can lay off foreign aid to the Philippines.
Click to expand...

Laying off almost all foreign aid is a good idea except if you want an alibi and/or friends in the local elites.
 
reinoe said:
Dutarte is handling the problems in The Phillipines the way Filipinos want. Western business interests turned the country into a haven for drug dealers and prostitutes and the money flowing in from those illicit activities was being used to fund terrorism. It's wonderful to watch ignorant feel good lefties whine about problems they know nothing about.
Click to expand...

This particular "leftie" knows the Philippines pretty well indeed...and what Duterte is doing is trying to copy what Lee Kuan Yew did for Singapore. Singapore used to be a bit of a dive, but after Singapore got its independence, Lee came in and acted as a strongman - he could be a mean SOB if he felt the need to do so...and today, Singapore is truly a world-class city, thanks in large part to the strict law enforcement and regulatory systems he put in place. I think most of us have heard that Singapore is a "fine" city - meaning you can get fined for almost anything, but Singapore is also by far the cleanest city I've ever seen - I remember walking blocks and blocks looking to see if I could find ANY trash or litter along the sidewalk (yes, this is something a sailor on liberty might do just for sh**s and giggles). If you couldn't tell, I greatly enjoyed Singapore.

And though he's not saying it, that's what Duterte is trying to do. Most of us are horrified at his method for doing so...but by the same token, remember that the Philippines is not America. They face challenges that most Americans have never imagined. For instance, in America, if a cop pulls you over and you offer him $50 cash to ignore the traffic ticket, what's going to happen? You'll be lucky if you get out of it without being charged with a felony. But in the Philippines, it's normal - the traffic cops there work on commission - yes, they do. If a traffic policeman pulls you over and issues you a ticket, the commission he gets is what puts food on the table for his family...but he won't get that commission for four to six weeks, which is why the policeman will pretty much always accept a smaller bribe - usually no more than $5-$10 in the local currency - and it's all good. The problem is, this kind of corruption informs the entire system, public and private, from bottom to the top. The degree of corruption there is breathtaking - we Americans think we have a corrupt government, but we've got NOTHING on them! As I've pointed out before, I've paid off a judge to have my brother-in-law there released from jail - it was business as normal. I've paid a customs official to let my household good through without paying 100% duties - and it was business as normal.

But it's getting better. Thing is, there's a LOT of Filipinos (though probably still a minority) who look back fondly on the days of Ferdinand Marcos. Why? Because the streets were much cleaner (their trash problem is epic today), and there was far less problems with drugs. But once he was overthrown, it was "capitalism unbound" - the private sector could suddenly do pretty much everything it wanted...and while there are some business districts as modern as anything on America's west coast (not kidding), a half-klick away and you're among the squatters once more, crowding around your car begging for money or food. It's so damned hard to say "no" to the children - they look at you and KNOW you're rich...and if you're white, to the squatters you're rich, even if you haven't a penny to your name. And there's trash everywhere - worst of all is the trash that lines the shores, the otherwise beautiful beaches. That's what happens when government becomes so weak that it can only do the bidding of Big Business. And with a weak government comes the rise of criminal enterprises - particularly drug dealers.

But did the West do that to the Philippines as you state above? No. This bleeding wound of capitalism unbound was self-inflicted by the overthrow of Marcos and the decades-long hamstringing of the government there, and by the politicians putting the interests of the corporations above that of the people. Yes, corporations must succeed for the nation to succeed...but the people must succeed, too - they need a government strong enough to stand up against the corporations there...and they don't have that yet. Instead, as a direct result they have crappy roads, squatters, and trash.

So...reinoe. Are you still of the opinion that us lefties know nothing about the problems there? Hm? Or perhaps it's YOU who knows far less of the problems there than does this particular leftie?
 
PoS said:
Most voters in that country are pretty uneducated, which is why he won the election.
Click to expand...

Sorry, guy, but you just showed how ignorant you are of the people there. From a study five years ago:

The Philippines was named the world’s best country in business English proficiency, even beating the United States, according to a recent study by GlobalEnglish Corporation.

GlobalEnglish has released early this month the results of its annual Business English Index (BEI), the only index that measures business English proficiency in the workplace.

For 2012, results showed that from 76 represented countries worldwide, only the Philippines attained a score above 7.0, "a BEI level within range of a high proficiency that indicates an ability to take an active role in business discussions and perform relatively complex tasks."

If you traveled there, you would quickly find out how seriously the locals take education. It's normal - normal - there for parents to pay for large signs to be printed out to hang in the street bragging on their children who advanced a grade, or received a certain certification. You'll see freaking billboards that schools put up listing the names of the graduating class. It is considered shameful there for anyone in the middle class or above to not have a college degree. This is one reason they are prized in the world's merchant marine fleets:

The Philippines supplies one-third of the world’s shipping manpower with about 270,000 Filipino seamen employed by foreign maritime agencies, according to the Department of Labor and Employment. Of the number, over 50,000 work on Japan’s 3,000 merchant ships. The figure accounts for 65 percent of Japan's maritime personnel. (boldface mine)

And don't pretend it's because they work for peanuts - there's many other nations whose people would work for much less...but it's the Filipinos who are preferred. That's also why they do so well in our Navy - just ask any retired Navy man how well the Filipinos do there!

Look, I understand why you thought that people there are "pretty uneducated" - I thought the same thing too for many years...until I learned how wrong I was - it was part of my education on how little we Americans know of the rest of the planet. That's why I try very hard to refrain from making sweeping assumptions of others.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Sorry, guy, but you just showed how ignorant you are of the people there. From a study five years ago:

The Philippines was named the world’s best country in business English proficiency, even beating the United States, according to a recent study by GlobalEnglish Corporation.

GlobalEnglish has released early this month the results of its annual Business English Index (BEI), the only index that measures business English proficiency in the workplace.

For 2012, results showed that from 76 represented countries worldwide, only the Philippines attained a score above 7.0, "a BEI level within range of a high proficiency that indicates an ability to take an active role in business discussions and perform relatively complex tasks."

If you traveled there, you would quickly find out how seriously the locals take education. It's normal - normal - there for parents to pay for large signs to be printed out to hang in the street bragging on their children who advanced a grade, or received a certain certification. You'll see freaking billboards that schools put up listing the names of the graduating class. It is considered shameful there for anyone in the middle class or above to not have a college degree. This is one reason they are prized in the world's merchant marine fleets:

The Philippines supplies one-third of the world’s shipping manpower with about 270,000 Filipino seamen employed by foreign maritime agencies, according to the Department of Labor and Employment. Of the number, over 50,000 work on Japan’s 3,000 merchant ships. The figure accounts for 65 percent of Japan's maritime personnel. (boldface mine)

And don't pretend it's because they work for peanuts - there's many other nations whose people would work for much less...but it's the Filipinos who are preferred. That's also why they do so well in our Navy - just ask any retired Navy man how well the Filipinos do there!

Look, I understand why you thought that people there are "pretty uneducated" - I thought the same thing too for many years...until I learned how wrong I was - it was part of my education on how little we Americans know of the rest of the planet. That's why I try very hard to refrain from making sweeping assumptions of others.
Click to expand...

One interesting facet to that is that even what we consider entry level corporate jobs require a bachelors degree as a qualification.
 
Napoleon said:
One interesting facet to that is that even what we consider entry level corporate jobs require a bachelors degree as a qualification.
Click to expand...

Um, no, most corporations in America do NOT require a degree as a hard requirement prior to employment at an entry-level position. For more professional positions, particularly in the white-collar sections, sure...but you're going to find a LOT of corporations out there that has employees without bachelor's degrees, because almost every corporation out there has at least some blue-collar positions that don't require a degree.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Um, no, most corporations in America do NOT require a degree as a hard requirement prior to employment at an entry-level position. For more professional positions, particularly in the white-collar sections, sure...but you're going to find a LOT of corporations out there that has employees without bachelor's degrees, because almost every corporation out there has at least some blue-collar positions that don't require a degree.
Click to expand...

The point of the post was that they do require college degrees for entry level positions offshored to the Philippines. That foreign person people talk to when they dial into a call center is probably a college graduate. A rice stipend is also a standard feature of compensation packages.
 
Last edited:
Napoleon said:
Duterte makes a public spectacle of himself and his grievous human rights violations. A public response is only appropriate.
Click to expand...

Then....expect a public response from Duterte. That's all.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Sorry, guy, but you just showed how ignorant you are of the people there. From a study five years ago:

The Philippines was named the world’s best country in business English proficiency, even beating the United States, according to a recent study by GlobalEnglish Corporation.

GlobalEnglish has released early this month the results of its annual Business English Index (BEI), the only index that measures business English proficiency in the workplace.

For 2012, results showed that from 76 represented countries worldwide, only the Philippines attained a score above 7.0, "a BEI level within range of a high proficiency that indicates an ability to take an active role in business discussions and perform relatively complex tasks."

If you traveled there, you would quickly find out how seriously the locals take education. It's normal - normal - there for parents to pay for large signs to be printed out to hang in the street bragging on their children who advanced a grade, or received a certain certification. You'll see freaking billboards that schools put up listing the names of the graduating class. It is considered shameful there for anyone in the middle class or above to not have a college degree. This is one reason they are prized in the world's merchant marine fleets:

The Philippines supplies one-third of the world’s shipping manpower with about 270,000 Filipino seamen employed by foreign maritime agencies, according to the Department of Labor and Employment. Of the number, over 50,000 work on Japan’s 3,000 merchant ships. The figure accounts for 65 percent of Japan's maritime personnel. (boldface mine)

And don't pretend it's because they work for peanuts - there's many other nations whose people would work for much less...but it's the Filipinos who are preferred. That's also why they do so well in our Navy - just ask any retired Navy man how well the Filipinos do there!

Look, I understand why you thought that people there are "pretty uneducated" - I thought the same thing too for many years...until I learned how wrong I was - it was part of my education on how little we Americans know of the rest of the planet. That's why I try very hard to refrain from making sweeping assumptions of others.
Click to expand...

I happen to co-own a call center there so I do know what I'm talking about.

First off you miss my point, the vast majority of voters in the Philippines are poor and uneducated and most of these people live in shanties- these are the ones who voted for Duterte.

The ones you are referring to are mostly college educated workers, but they are not the majority. And even they sometimes lack common sense. I know this because I've interviewed thousands of them over the years. My local partners are well educated, but they were of a prior generation before the country experienced a brain drain of their best people because of the lousy conditions, and the best teachers emigrated to other countries- that is why their citizens fill manpower requirements of other countries.

A lot of kids in that country do get an education, but it is a substandard one.
 
Glen Contrarian:

Lee Kwan Yew was nothing like Duterte. He used the courts to "civilise" Singapore and did not use extrajudicial killings. Sure he proliferated corporal punishment, caning, for many common criminal offences, greatly expanding this type of legal punishment begun by the British. He also increased the use of capital punishment for serious crimes. He used, and some would say abused, the courts by suing his political opponents into penury. But he did all of this through the court system and did not step outside the rule of law, as weighted as it was to achieving his project for Singapore. Duterte is ignoring the law, suspending the law with martial law and is breaking the law. There is a world of difference in the two men's actions and legitimacy.

Duterte, Lee Kuan Yew are nothing alike: Singapore newspaper | ABS-CBN News

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
PoS said:
I happen to co-own a call center there so I do know what I'm talking about.

First off you miss my point, the vast majority of voters in the Philippines are poor and uneducated and most of these people live in shanties- these are the ones who voted for Duterte.

The ones you are referring to are mostly college educated workers, but they are not the majority. And even they sometimes lack common sense. I know this because I've interviewed thousands of them over the years. My local partners are well educated, but they were of a prior generation before the country experienced a brain drain of their best people because of the lousy conditions, and the best teachers emigrated to other countries- that is why their citizens fill manpower requirements of other countries.

A lot of kids in that country do get an education, but it is a substandard one.
Click to expand...

I own a house there in QC, not too far from the call centers along Commonwealth Ave. If your call center is in Manila, it's probably there close to the Techno Hub. I don't know if you've really lived there - maybe you have. I have.

And I strongly disagree - as with anywhere, it often depends on where they got the education. If they got it in Manila, it's probably a decent education. If they're from out in the province, not so much. In other words, it's like here in the states - if you get your education in the big city, it is likely (though by no means guaranteed) that you got a better education than in rural areas. I grew up in a very rural area - the MS Delta - and I noted how the Philippine province of Bulacan was very much like where I grew up - the similarities were unmistakable. I say that to point out that I know what it's like to go to substandard schools - it's not easy to achieve.

When it comes to your remark about "common sense", dude - have you dealt with people in America? Ever? There's a LOT of us who have no common sense. That's not a product of living in a particular country, but a part of the human condition no matter where you go - some don't have common sense.

As far as their "brain drain" - that's been going on forever...but the only reason that people leave is because they can do so - most people there would love to work overseas. I've got a cousin (and her daughter) in Riyadh, a niece who's a stewardess on Fly Dubai, a nephew working for SAP who flies to the Netherlands every so often to conduct training, and another nephew at UPenn taking immunology (he did an internship for a while at Harvard). My extended family is on every continent except for Africa and Antarctica. What's the point of all this? It's a "brain drain" on in the sense that those who are able to leave are (if we don't count the fiancee visas) those who have better educations. But by the same token, I'm very sure that you're aware that the single biggest source of money coming into the Philippines is from overseas money remittances.

One last thing - yes, a heck of a lot of people live in shanties - there are many out in the province who still live in a "bahay kubo" - but I think your statement that most Pinoy live in shanties is no longer accurate. About 48% of the population live in urban areas, and most of the population in the cities live in apartments - yes, those apartments are usually crappy by our standards...but they're not shanties. Add that to the admittedly-smaller percentage of those outside urban areas who do live in houses or apartments...and it becomes apparent that your claim is probably inaccurate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom