CBC's Interrupt: Jakarta

tosca1 · Oct 25, 2017

Surrealistik said:
The weed stuff has already been dealt with in another thread where it should remain,

:roll:

....unless I'm giving another example as to why I say Trudeau is bad for the country.

but I'm curious; if the economy flourishes under Trudeau, would that improve your opinion of him,

Are you serious?
No. Economy isn't the only reason I say Trudeau is bad for the country.
The title and the OP should be clear enough.

If it were your choice to subject Canada to a recession in exchange for getting Trudeau out of office, would you?

Yes.
With him in office, we're also going down (getting deeper in debt) - why prolong it to create more havoc? What choice do we have?

Might as well bite the bullet now and start all over again.

Lastly, if he was replaced NDP government because of said downturn, I don't suppose you'd still be happy about that?

If I'd expressed my disgust for Trudeau's admiration for China and Castro......
........why on earth would I want a much more blatant socialists and commie-leaning party?

You should do your homework - review my other posts.

Surrealistik · Oct 25, 2017

tosca1 said:
:roll:

....unless I'm giving another example as to why I say Trudeau is bad for the country.

Seems like an attempt to bleed over that argument. Also, the whole grievance with this 'premature' rollout has been addressed.

Are you serious?
No. Economy isn't the only reason I say Trudeau is bad for the country.
The title and the OP should be clear enough.

The economy is doing fine thus far; that's not a problem Trudeau has whether you or I like it or not.

Yes.
With him in office, we're also going down (getting deeper in debt) - why prolong it to create more havoc? What choice do we have?

Might as well bite the bullet now and start all over again.

Alright, so you're fine with mass national suffering if it suits your partisan purposes, noted.

By the way, the Liberals have been the most responsible stewards of the national debt in the last 30 years or so, and probably beyond ( https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/gl...the-better-economic-managers/article23252879/ minding that if anything, the Globe and Mail leans Conservative | Canada's deficits and surpluses, 1963 to 2015 - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News ); if you're concerned about the debt (which actually isn't unduly high for a first world country), you should be outraged at Harper; I hope you are. If your retort is that he had to run stimulus to deal with a downturn in the economy after 2007, there was a similar issue in Trudeau's case with the collapse of oil prices (which Harper exasperated by failing to work towards greater diversification of the economy away from fossil fuels during the oil boom times).

If I'd expressed my disgust for Trudeau's admiration for China and Castro......
........why on earth would I want a much more blatant socialists and commie-leaning party?

You should do your homework - review my other posts.

So you're fine with Trudeau getting replaced only and exclusively if his replacement fits your partisan beliefs, while erroneously and ridiculously branding the NDP as socialists (as in hard socialists per the 'commie' reference) and communists; the same party that ran on an economic platform more right leaning than the Liberals in the last federal election (which cost them greatly as much of their voter base defected).

By the way, I don't really like Trudeau, I distrust him greatly, and think he's largely a tool of corporate interests, but your views are even more repugnant and disingenuous as they appear to stand.

tosca1 · Oct 25, 2017

Surrealistik said:
Seems like an attempt to bleed over that argument. Also, the whole grievance with this 'premature' rollout has been addressed.

Assume whatever you like - just don't interrupt and dictate what can, or can't be used as a point, or an example. Especially when someone's specifically responding to another.

The economy is doing fine thus far; that's not a problem Trudeau has whether you or I like it or not.

That's your opinion. It's a volatile situation.
AND, I'm not talking about today. Let's revisit this economy next year.

tosca1 · Oct 25, 2017

Surrealistik said:
Seems like an attempt to bleed over that argument. Also, the whole grievance with this 'premature' rollout has been addressed.

The economy is doing fine thus far; that's not a problem Trudeau has whether you or I like it or not.

Alright, so you're fine with mass national suffering if it suits your partisan purposes, noted.

By the way, the Liberals have been the most responsible stewards of the national debt in the last 30 years or so, and probably beyond ( https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/gl...the-better-economic-managers/article23252879/ minding that if anything, the Globe and Mail leans Conservative | Canada's deficits and surpluses, 1963 to 2015 - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News ); if you're concerned about the debt (which actually isn't unduly high for a first world country), you should be outraged at Harper; I hope you are. If your retort is that he had to run stimulus to deal with a downturn in the economy after 2007, there was a similar issue in Trudeau's case with the collapse of oil prices (which Harper exasperated by failing to work towards greater diversification of the economy away from fossil fuels during the oil boom times).

So you're fine with Trudeau getting replaced only and exclusively if his replacement fits your partisan beliefs, while erroneously and ridiculously branding the NDP as socialists (as in hard socialists per the 'commie' reference) and communists; the same party that ran on an economic platform more right leaning than the Liberals in the last federal election (which cost them greatly as much of their voter base defected).

By the way, I don't really like Trudeau, I distrust him greatly, and think he's largely a tool of corporate interests, but your views are even more repugnant and disingenuous as they appear to stand.

That's your opinion. :shrug:

What can I say? I don't like Trudeau's policies.......and I'm not into communism.

Northern Light · Oct 25, 2017

The Niqab issue in Canada is about security in government buildings, which is reasonable if you think about it. It's hard to accomplish due process or ensure security when you can't see someone. Some hardliners have proposed a public ban across the board, like on public transit, but it's getting backlash.

The irony is that you're forcing "freedom" on a certain female segment of the population while telling them that they can't wear what they want. Shariah law is backward and not a reflection of the majority of the Islamic world. Really what these women and their husbands are asking for is to continue their social practices from Saudi Arabia and other Shariah regions while having the government cater to them. I don't agree with this, BUT you don't kill an idea by forcing them to unveil, you do it by showing them what a freer society looks like. You think their children will want to grow up in Canada wearing the veil? No way. In one generation, two max, they will be veil-less.

If women are free then they are also free to veil themselves. Of course this is the French proposing the niqab ban and their xenophobia is legendary, even among the Canadian French. The apple does not fall far from the tree. All a niqab ban in Quebec will do is send Muslims packing to other provinces, which is exactly what the hardliners want.

Surrealistik · Oct 25, 2017

tosca1 said:
Assume whatever you like - just don't interrupt and dictate what can, or can't be used as a point, or an example. Especially when someone's specifically responding to another.

I didn't interrupt, though indeed I don't think that a minority of regions claiming a lack of readiness, many for partisan/political reasons, meaningfully detracts from Trudeau's rollout.

That's your opinion. It's a volatile situation.
AND, I'm not talking about today. Let's revisit this economy next year.

It's not my opinion, it's the facts as they stand: job and GDP growth are both doing fine, and the stock market is up:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth

https://www.thestar.com/business/ec...ate-falls-to-lowest-in-nearly-nine-years.html

https://web.tmxmoney.com/charting.php?qm_symbol=^TSX

You can't criticize Trudeau for a bad economy that hasn't come to pass.

tosca1 said:
That's your opinion. :shrug:

What can I say? I don't like Trudeau's policies.......and I'm not into communism.

...Except the NDP factually aren't remotely communists.

tosca1 · Oct 26, 2017

Surrealistik said:
I didn't interrupt, though indeed I don't think that a minority of regions claiming a lack of readiness, many for partisan/political reasons, meaningfully detracts from Trudeau's rollout.

It's not my opinion, it's the facts as they stand: job and GDP growth are both doing fine, and the stock market is up:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth

https://www.thestar.com/business/ec...ate-falls-to-lowest-in-nearly-nine-years.html

https://web.tmxmoney.com/charting.php?qm_symbol=^TSX

You can't criticize Trudeau for a bad economy that hasn't come to pass.

...Except the NDP factually aren't remotely communists.

I've been watching either CTV and CBC - they're both saying that it's a volatile situation. They mentioned all the reasons why.
NAFTA is one of them. We're still negotiating - wait until they're done.
That's why the bank interest rate remains where it's at.

Boost in Canadian economy is unsustainable: Quarterly economic report by Philip Cross

Concerns in the manufacturing and housing sectors forecast long-term problems for the suddenly surging Canadian economy

OTTAWA, Sept. 14, 2017 – The sudden upturn in Canada’s economic fortunes is masking major problems that will drag down growth in the future, writes Philip Cross in his latest quarterly economic update for the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.

Canada’s economic growth rate in the last quarter has surpassed the expectations of many observers, leading to some to go so far as to say we are in the midst of an “already-sizzling economy.”

“Such hyperbole is both inaccurate and unhelpful,” writes Cross.

To read the full report, click here.

------

Philip Cross is a Munk Senior Fellow with the Macdonald-Laurier Institute. He previously served as the Chief Economic Analyst for Statistics Canada, part of a 36-year career with the agency.

The Macdonald-Laurier Institute is the only non-partisan, independent national public policy think tank in Ottawa focusing on the full range of issues that fall under the jurisdiction of the federal government.

Boost in Canadian economy is unsustainable: Quarterly economic report by Philip Cross | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

Ler's revisit the economy next year, and see how we are doing.

tosca1 · Oct 26, 2017

Surrealistik said:
I didn't interrupt, though indeed I don't think that a minority of regions claiming a lack of readiness, many for partisan/political reasons, meaningfully detracts from Trudeau's rollout.

It's not my opinion, it's the facts as they stand: job and GDP growth are both doing fine, and the stock market is up:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth

https://www.thestar.com/business/ec...ate-falls-to-lowest-in-nearly-nine-years.html

https://web.tmxmoney.com/charting.php?qm_symbol=^TSX

You can't criticize Trudeau for a bad economy that hasn't come to pass.

...Except the NDP factually aren't remotely communists.

From your own source:

Compared with a year ago, the number of jobs has increased by 388,000, driven by a surge in 354,000 full-time positions.

However, the positive job figures were dampened by the latest numbers on Canada’s trade deficit, which ballooned to $3.6 billion in June from a shortfall of $1.4 billion the previous month.

https://www.thestar.com/business/ec...ate-falls-to-lowest-in-nearly-nine-years.html

Most of those full-time jobs were created by the government! Of course you'd see growth in employment if the government hires public servants! The Conservatives had reduced public servants for a reason - and Trudeau simply hired them back, plus added more!

The question is - how many among those are really needed? Imagine how much this will cost us?

Canada’s unemployment rate rises to 7% despite strong August job growth

The gain in August was due in large part to an increase in the number of public sector employees that climbed 57,000, while the number of private sector jobs increased 8,300. The number of self-employed workers slipped by 39,100.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2929714/...-rises-to-7-despite-strong-august-job-growth/

Public sector jobs! 57,000! No doubt to make the report look good. :lol:

Furthermore.....in March.....

OTTAWA—The nation’s labour market pumped out another 19,400 net jobs last month — and the vast majority of the new work was full-time.

However, Statistics Canada’s job survey Friday also showed the bulk of those new positions were created in the more precarious category of self-employment, which can include people working for a family business without pay.

https://www.thestar.com/business/economy/2017/04/07/canada-adds-full-time-jobs-in-march.html

tosca1 · Oct 26, 2017

Bombardier,
Sears,
Pipeline,
NAFTA,
Morneau's conflict of interest,
border crisis,
marijuana legislation,
opioid crisis,
Islamophobia,
reckless spending,
$10 million reward to Khadr, and yet not even a million dollars to every scoop child (indigenous people which were truly victimized in Canada),
glossed up employment rate,

and a truly a big-mouth, reckless PM ..........(for his love of burqas and niqabs).....who now basically
implies his EU friends are "racists."

.......enough to drive you to drink!

....or turn to pot. :lol:

Hmmm....maybe that's why we're really rushing the legalization of marijuana.
Turning Canada into a land of lotus-eaters, are we? So....we'll "sleep in peaceful apathy?"

Which would you prefer - a brash and crude, or a dim light bulb?

Surrealistik · Oct 26, 2017

tosca1 said:
I've been watching either CTV and CBC - they're both saying that it's a volatile situation. They mentioned all the reasons why.
NAFTA is one of them. We're still negotiating - wait until they're done.
That's why the bank interest rate remains where it's at.

Sure, NAFTA negotiations matter, and we've yet to see how auto and energy does going forward, but you're criticizing him for a bad economy now.

Boost in Canadian economy is unsustainable: Quarterly economic report by Philip Cross | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

Ler's revisit the economy next year, and see how we are doing.

How surprising that a conservative think tank (which falsely claims to be non-partisan) thinks poorly of the situation.

Basically the report is tantamount to saying that growth is riding cyclical elements such as autos and energy... or in otherwords business as usual in Canada, with the obvious truism that in the case of the former, a lot is contingent on NAFTA.

I wonder if these guys were around during Harper's administration pointing out that the oil boom (which was far more anomalous and unlikely to persist long term) couldn't possibly last forever. Speaking of which, I hope you were plenty critical of Harper's all or nothing policy so far as the energy sector was concerned since you're apparently so concerned with economic instability and sustainability, but I rather doubt it.

In general the report highlights areas of concern for long term growth without actually forecasting doom or any kind of collapse/recession (and knowing MLI, if the case could be made, it would be made). I actually agree that the insane ~4%+ of real GDP growth is unsustainable, and the figure is more likely to be the govt forecast of around 2% which is quite respectable.

tosca1 said:
Most of those full-time jobs were created by the government! Of course you'd see growth in employment if the government hires public servants! The Conservatives had reduced public servants for a reason - and Trudeau simply hired them back, plus added more!

Conservatives decreased public servants in sectors they disliked (while simultaneously bloating the deficit and debt during the entirety of Harper's reign). Also, August/September != the entirety of job growth since Trudeau came to power (the vast majority of which is clearly not govt employees or the self-employed). Let's not cherry pick please in order to make disingenuous partisan non-points.

As to your third post, please, saying Trudeau is to blame for things like Sears, in addition to stuff like your branding of the NDP as 'communist', and faulting Trudeau for spending at the time of economic downturn while you appear to give Harper a pass for one of the biggest increases in Canadian debt ever, just shows very clearly that you're so blinded by your own political biases and loyalties that there's nothing to be gained by continuing this discussion.

Carjosse · Oct 26, 2017

tosca1 said:
Bombardier,
Sears,
Pipeline,
NAFTA,
Morneau's conflict of interest,
border crisis,
marijuana legislation,
opioid crisis,
Islamophobia,
reckless spending,
$10 million reward to Khadr, and yet not even a million dollars to every scoop child (indigenous people which were truly victimized in Canada),
glossed up employment rate,

and a truly a big-mouth, reckless PM ..........(for his love of burqas and niqabs).....who now basically
implies his EU friends are "racists."

.......enough to drive you to drink!

....or turn to pot. :lol:

Hmmm....maybe that's why we're really rushing the legalization of marijuana.
Turning Canada into a land of lotus-eaters, are we? So....we'll "sleep in peaceful apathy?"

Which would you prefer - a brash and crude, or a dim light bulb?

Is there anything Trudeau is not responsible for in your eyes? Do you also blame him when you stub your toe or it rains? You are biased and delusional, nothing he does is ever right and you blame him for things he has literally nothing to do with.

tosca1 · Oct 27, 2017

Surrealistik said:
How surprising that a conservative think tank (which falsely claims to be non-partisan) thinks poorly of the situation.

:roll:

"Falsely claims?" Because it doesn't agree with you? :lol:

Philip Cross is a Munk Senior Fellow with the Macdonald-Laurier Institute. He previously served as the Chief Economic Analyst for Statistics Canada, part of a 36-year career with the agency.

The Macdonald-Laurier Institute is the only
non-partisan, independent national public policy think tank in Ottawa focusing on the full range of issues that fall under the jurisdiction of the federal government.

Boost in Canadian economy is unsustainable: Quarterly economic report by Philip Cross | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

Well........the grim outlook is backed up by other sources!

OTTAWA—The nation’s labour market pumped out another 19,400 net jobs last month — and the vast majority of the new work was full-time.

However, Statistics Canada’s job survey Friday also showed the bulk of those new positions were created in the more precarious category of self-employment, which can include people working for a family business without pay.

https://www.thestar.com/business/eco...-in-march.html

Canada’s unemployment rate rises to 7% despite strong August job growth

The gain in August was due in large part to an increase in the number of public sector employees that climbed 57,000, while the number of private sector jobs increased 8,300. The number of self-employed workers slipped by 39,100.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2929714/c...st-job-growth/

By your own source:

Compared with a year ago, the number of jobs has increased by 388,000, driven by a surge in 354,000 full-time positions.

However, the positive job figures were dampened by the latest numbers on Canada’s trade deficit, which ballooned to $3.6 billion in June from a shortfall of $1.4 billion the previous month.

https://www.thestar.com/business/eco...ine-years.html

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post.......you're even ignoring your own source! :mrgreen:

The same for Carjosse since she agreed with you. She ignored the glaring fallacy of your post.
Her response is also nonsense. I'm not wasting my time.

Surrealistik · Oct 27, 2017

tosca1 said:
:roll:

"Falsely claims?" Because it doesn't agree with you? :lol:

Boost in Canadian economy is unsustainable: Quarterly economic report by Philip Cross | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

Well........the grim outlook is backed up by other sources!

https://www.thestar.com/business/eco...-in-march.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/2929714/c...st-job-growth/

By your own source:

https://www.thestar.com/business/eco...ine-years.html

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post.......you're even ignoring your own source! :mrgreen:

The same for Carjosse since she agreed with you. She ignored the glaring fallacy of your post.
Her response is also nonsense. I'm not wasting my time.

I already addressed this ****.

Listen.

Trudeau became PM in 2015.

It's been about 2 years.

Are you _really_ trying to use cherry picked job and trade deficit numbers from all of 3 months out of 24 as some kind of definitive smoking gun evidence that a right wing think tank is correct? Don't be ridiculous.

Surrealistik · Oct 27, 2017

Oh, and concerning MLI's notorious bias and partisan status, it's not a right wing think tank because it disagrees with me so much as because of its policy positions, those associated with it, and experts on the matter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald-Laurier_Institute

The ideologies of Canadian economists, according to Twitter - Macleans.ca (very interesting and indepth social media analysis)

https://tvo.org/blog/current-affairs/inside-agenda/mapping-canadian-think-tanks (per political science professor and think tank authority Donald Abelson)

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/03/21/CrimeFloggers/ (unsurprisingly, the think tank is close to Conservative politicos and Conservative institutions)

tosca1 · Oct 29, 2017

Surrealistik said:
I already addressed this ****.

Listen.

Trudeau became PM in 2015.

It's been about 2 years.

Are you _really_ trying to use cherry picked job and trade deficit numbers from all of 3 months out of 24 as some kind of definitive smoking gun evidence that a right wing think tank is correct? Don't be ridiculous.

It's still here.

Surrealistik · Oct 29, 2017

tosca1 said:
It's still here.

What's still here?

A couple of months of growth in self-employment and govt jobs out of 24 months of consistent economic, job and stock equity growth does not a failure make.

CBC's Interrupt: Jakarta

tosca1

Surrealistik

tosca1

tosca1

Northern Light

The Light of Truth

Surrealistik

tosca1

tosca1

tosca1

Surrealistik

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna

tosca1

Surrealistik

Surrealistik

tosca1

Surrealistik