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Quebec passes Bill 62

tosca1

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Quebec passes Bill 62 forcing public to uncover faces to give or receive services

Bill 62 is the Liberal government’s attempt to enshrine into law what is considered to be a fundamental Quebec value that the state should not promote religion of any kind.

Bill 62 has two basic components: it bans the wearing of face coverings for people giving or receiving a service from the state and it offers a framework outlining how authorities should grant accommodation requests based on religious beliefs.

Couillard said he expects some people to challenge the law, but he defended the legislation as necessary for reasons related to communication, identification and security.
Quebec passes Bill 62 forcing public to uncover faces to give or receive service


Of course, our young PM Trudeau had stated that, "it's not up to federal government to challenge Quebec niqab ban, however, he believes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to everyone and that he will defend that principle."

What's he on about?
Can you wear a stocking or a hockey mask in a bank? Can you wear a bikini in a justice court?
Can you wear just a speedo in school?


Canada isn't the first country to ban face coverings in certain places.....some countries even banning it in public, period.

Do you support Bill 62?
 
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Quebec passes Bill 62 forcing public to uncover faces to give or receive service


Of course, our young PM Trudeau had stated that, "it's not up to federal government to challenge Quebec niqab ban, however, he believes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to everyone and that he will defend that principle."

What's he on about? Can you wear a stocking or a hockey mask in a bank? Can you wear a bikini in a justice court?


Canada isn't the first country to ban face coverings.....some countries even banning it in public, period.

Do you support Bill 62?




What it means is Ottawa has no avenue to prevent it outright, so it will have to be settled American style, a shoot out in the court.

Having said that, I doubt anything CAN be done, as the issue is squarely within the realm of the "opting out clause"; Quebec has already said they will use it here as they did on language of education, etc.
 
As Quebec, and more specifically rural Quebec, is the most racist and xenophobic part of the country this isn’t terribly surprising.
 
As Quebec, and more specifically rural Quebec, is the most racist and xenophobic part of the country this isn’t terribly surprising.
:roll:

I suppose Austria - and other countries in Europe - must be "racist" like Quebec.

Austria Becomes Latest Country In Europe To Ban Full-Face Veil

"Starting in October, police will be charging fines from people who wear clothes that obstruct their facial features," Deutsche Welle reports. "The 150-euro ($166) fine would also apply to women wearing burqas and niqabs at universities, courts, or in public transport."

France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Bulgaria have already banned or partially banned wearing a burqa or niqab. Germany and Norway are also working on bans.

In March, the EU's highest court ruled that a Muslim woman who was fired in Belgium over wanting to wear an Islamic headscarf at her job did not suffer from direct discrimination, because her employer had a general rule against religious or political displays.
Austria Becomes Latest Country In Europe To Ban Full-Face Veil : The Two-Way : NPR



I'm surprised it isn't being banned in the USA. Maybe it's coming....
 
Quebec passes Bill 62 forcing public to uncover faces to give or receive service


Of course, our young PM Trudeau had stated that, "it's not up to federal government to challenge Quebec niqab ban, however, he believes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to everyone and that he will defend that principle."

What's he on about?
Can you wear a stocking or a hockey mask in a bank? Can you wear a bikini in a justice court?
Can you wear just a speedo in school?


Canada isn't the first country to ban face coverings in certain places.....some countries even banning it in public, period.

Do you support Bill 62?

If I lived in Quebec I'd wear a mask every time I went out the door.
 
Quebec passes Bill 62 forcing public to uncover faces to give or receive service


Of course, our young PM Trudeau had stated that, "it's not up to federal government to challenge Quebec niqab ban, however, he believes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to everyone and that he will defend that principle."

What's he on about?
Can you wear a stocking or a hockey mask in a bank? Can you wear a bikini in a justice court?
Can you wear just a speedo in school?


Canada isn't the first country to ban face coverings in certain places.....some countries even banning it in public, period.

Do you support Bill 62?

Reductio ad absurdum
 
Not if you're protesting. I think, protesters are not allowed to cover their faces.

Anyway, you can cover your face on the streets. You're not allowed only in certain places.
Quebec's bill 62 isn't as all-encompassing as Austria or France, or Belgium.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/world/europe/quebec-burqa-ban-europe.html

This is exactly the type of law that gets active resistance. This is going to cause the authorities no end of problems.

Reminds me of the story (not sure it's true but a good story anyway) about Denmark under Nazi occupation. When the Germans decreed that Jews had to wear a Star of David, most of the Danish population sewed stars on their coats.
 
This is exactly the type of law that gets active resistance. This is going to cause the authorities no end of problems.

Reminds me of the story (not sure it's true but a good story anyway) about Denmark under Nazi occupation. When the Germans decreed that Jews had to wear a Star of David, most of the Danish population sewed stars on their coats.

Having people put on a star of David (to identify Jews) - isn't exactly the same as banning face coverings.
Unless you live in a society where face coverings is the norm - face coverings stand out, don't they?

Just don't let anyone in, or give service to people that have their faces covered.

If I'm a bus driver, I'd insist that either the person steps off the bus or the face coverings be removed. If the person insists, I'd make it clear the bus isn't going anywhere (and I'd call the authority).
If it's the law, it's the law! No one should force the bus driver to break the law!
Maybe the passengers will apply the pressure on the covered person (depending on where they stand on the matter).....since they're being affected by the stubborn person's defiant behaviour.
 
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Having people put on a star of David (to identify Jews) - isn't exactly the same as banning face coverings.
Unless you live in a society where face coverings is the norm - face coverings stand out, don't they?

Just don't let anyone in, or give service to people that have their faces covered.

If I'm a bus driver, I'd insist that either the person steps off the bus or the face coverings be removed. If the person insists, I'd make it clear the bus isn't going anywhere (and I'd call the authority).
If it's the law, it's the law! No one should force the bus driver to break the law!
Maybe the passengers will apply the pressure on the covered person (depending on where they stand on the matter).....since they're being affected by the stubborn person's defiant behaviour.

Bad laws should be defied. That's the point of the Denmark story. If this law isn't defied wholesale I'll be ashamed to be Canadian.
 
Bad laws should be defied. That's the point of the Denmark story. If this law isn't defied wholesale I'll be ashamed to be Canadian.

Who sez it's bad law? You've already made a big mistake by comparing Nazi's star of David with this mask ban.

The star of David was forced on the Jews for the sole purpose of identifying who are Jews - so they can be discriminated upon!

The star of David was an identification! It's like the scarlet letter on a forehead!

How is that compared to removing face coverings so you don't stand out?
Isn't that the opposite of the star of David?
Having niqabs and burqas banned, will help Muslim women become like other women in Canada!
That should eliminate women being forced to endure such garments!
 
Who sez it's bad law? You've already made a big mistake by comparing Nazi's star of David with this mask ban.

The star of David was forced on the Jews for the sole purpose of identifying who are Jews - so they can be discriminated upon! It's an identification!

How is that compared to removing face coverings so you don't stand out? Isn't that the opposite of the star of David? Having niqabs and burqas banned, will help Muslim women become like other women in Canada! That should eliminate women being forced to endure such garments!

The point of the Denmark story, as I already said, was not the law, it's the defiance of the law. And you must know that whatever the intention, the result will be denying many Muslim women access to public services.
It's a very conservative thing, trying to design society through legislation. It fails so many times one wonders why it's still the go-to response to a percieved problem.
No, another law isn't required here. Another law won't solve anything- it'll only make it worse.
 
The point of the Denmark story, as I already said, was not the law, it's the defiance of the law. And you must know that whatever the intention, the result will be denying many Muslim women access to public services.


That's up to Muslim women. They have a choice to make.

It's a very conservative thing, trying to design society through legislation.

Who's legislated the most, and clamoring for more?
From environment to morality - I'd say, hands down, no contest ..... it's liberals.
 
That's up to Muslim women. They have a choice to make.



Who's legislated the most, and clamoring for more?
From environment to morality - I'd say, hands down, no contest ..... it's liberals.

sigh.

Why do you want to force this choice on women? Why can't this change happen gradually, naturally?
Here's why- this isn't about the rights of women and abolishing an anachronistic abuse of individual rights, it's about the delicate sensibilities of people who find such foreign cultural customs offensive. It's legislated intolerance and, as I said, if the law isn't defied wholesale I'll be ashamed to be Canadian.

And, I hope you don't really expect a reply to your last couple of sentences.
 
This "legislation" is not law until the courts enforce it. I am not sure that they can or will. I want to see a traditional Muslim woman who had refused to remove her head covering and who was denied necessary police, fire, or emergency medical service sue the hell out of this provincial government. I want to see a balaclava-wearing commuter who is refused access to public transport in mid February sue the hell out of this government. I want to see a surgeon fired after a complaint for operating on someone with a face mask in a public hospital or CLSC. I would also like to see police tactical and riot units forced to uncover their faces while operating in public spaces. This is stupid legislation which appeals to the tribal xenophobia and Gallic arrogance which is still ascendant in parts of La Francophonie.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
sigh.

Why do you want to force this choice on women? Why can't this change happen gradually, naturally?
:lol:

Freedom of choice - isn't that a mantra of liberals?


In the abortion debate, for example, the term "freedom of choice" may be used in defense of the position that a woman has a right to determine whether she will proceed with or terminate a pregnancy.[3][4][5] Similarly, other topics such as euthanasia,[6] contraception[7] and same-sex marriage[8] are sometimes discussed in terms of an individual right of "freedom of choice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_choice
 
This "legislation" is not law until the courts enforce it. I am not sure that they can or will. I want to see a traditional Muslim woman who had refused to remove her head covering and who was denied necessary police, fire, or emergency medical service sue the hell out of this provincial government. I want to see a balaclava-wearing commuter who is refused access to public transport in mid February sue the hell out of this government. I want to see a surgeon fired after a complaint for operating on someone with a face mask in a public hospital or CLSC. I would also like to see police tactical and riot units forced to uncover their faces while operating in public spaces. This is stupid legislation which appeals to the tribal xenophobia and Gallic arrogance which is still ascendant in parts of La Francophonie.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.



I wouldn't be surprised if they sue and win. After all, our courts are stacked with liberal judges.

We'll just compensate them for millions - no problem.
 
A little cooperation on both sides could avoid laws like this and go a long way toward trusting one another. Use common sense, don't insist rights when inappropriate, accommodate.
 
Is there a recent poll about this? I can't find one.....and yet yesterday at the scrum from Question Period, nanos and some pundits are saying that 75% of Canadians are secretly cheering the Quebec ban.

What I found was a poll in 2015:


Majority of Canadians agree with Conservatives over niqab ban, poll finds

Eighty-two per cent of those surveyed supported the requirement that people show their face during Canadian citizenship ceremonies, while 15 per cent opposed it

Majority of Canadians agree with Conservatives over niqab ban, poll finds | National Post


If that poll is true, Harper's stance on the niqab couldn't have been the cause why he lost the election.
 
The vast majority of women surveyed who wear the niqab in Canada are not only willing to remove their veils to be identified, but feel it is part of their responsibility to do so, according to the most extensive research of its kind.



The women interviewed were generally young and the vast majority had chosen to wear the niqab on their own, often despite the protests of family.

Canadian survey of women who wear the niqab reveals choice ‘may be a bit of a youth movement’ | National Post




As a Muslim, I Think Canada Should Ban the Niqab and Burka in Public



As a Muslim mother who never saw a niqab when I was growing up in Karachi, Pakistan, I am astonished to see Canada's judiciary caving in to Islamists who have nothing but contempt for Canada's values of gender equality.


I write this as a Muslim Canadian who does not have any specific political leanings.

But in the 25 years I have called Canada home, I have seen a steady rise of Muslim women being strangled in the pernicious black tent that is passed off to naïve and guilt-ridden white, mainstream Canadians as an essential Islamic practice.



The niqab and burka have nothing to do with Islam.

They're the political flags of the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, the Taliban, al-Qaida and Saudi Arabia.

As a Muslim, I Think Canada Should Ban the Niqab and Burka in Public




When a young Muslim person starts adhering to extremist practices like wearing the burqa, and goes against his own Muslim family over it......that should be a red flag for possible radicalization.


But of course, liberals want to ignore that.
That's why being vigilant is nothing more than a talking point that mean squat.
 
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Well, you seem determined to devolve this discussion into partisan fingerpointing so I guess we're done.
It's your thread, turn it into a bickerfest if that's what you want.

You're the one who brought up the conservatives.

It's a very conservative thing, trying to design society through legislation.

I merely corrected you. :shrug:
 
This "legislation" is not law until the courts enforce it. I am not sure that they can or will. I want to see a traditional Muslim woman who had refused to remove her head covering and who was denied necessary police, fire, or emergency medical service sue the hell out of this provincial government. I want to see a balaclava-wearing commuter who is refused access to public transport in mid February sue the hell out of this government. I want to see a surgeon fired after a complaint for operating on someone with a face mask in a public hospital or CLSC. I would also like to see police tactical and riot units forced to uncover their faces while operating in public spaces. This is stupid legislation which appeals to the tribal xenophobia and Gallic arrogance which is still ascendant in parts of La Francophonie.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Not to mention Japanese tourists who wear carpenters masks as filters. If the law is about niqabs and burkhas (and of course it is), then they should stop pretending otherwise, and say what it really is. If it passes the courts, then it's law. B.C. did the same thing sort of thing when it outlawed telling pregnant women the gender of their child. They did it because Asian women were aborting girls, but they applied the law to everyone so as not to be "racists".
 
I congratulate the Quebec LIBERAL government.
This bill forces all citizens to show their face, for positive ID in institutions like banks.
That's RATIONAL and REASONABLE. It should be applied nation-wide.
 
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