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Does it make sense to be a Canadian Trump supporter?

tosca1 said:
Maybe that's part of Trump's negotiating style? They're still negotiating, aren't they?
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Why should I assume that to be true? What if Trump does think he does not win if a trade deal is not one sided? And what if Trump's tactics end up causing the talks to collaspe? What if Trump wants to get rid of NAFTA to get a roar from a crowd at a rally, but has no real ideas on how to handle trade relations?

Would you support Canada signing a one sided deal?
 
tosca1 said:
That's a possibility.

However, from what I understand....even the Dems aren't happy with NAFTA.
Now that the USA had seen some businesses come back, would a successor of Trump have the gall to change them back the way they used to?
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Except how jobs has Canada taken from the US, because trade with Canada has created jobs for the US:

This is exactly how many American jobs depend on Canada?U.S. trade

Is making every molehill into a mountain and trying to squeeze every dime out of Canada good for the US?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Why should I assume that to be true? What if Trump does think he does not win if a trade deal is not one sided? And what if Trump's tactics end up causing the talks to collaspe? What if Trump wants to get rid of NAFTA to get a roar from a crowd at a rally, but has no real ideas on how to handle trade relations?

Would you support Canada signing a one sided deal?
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A lot of "what if."
 
tosca1 said:
I don't care about numbers of jobs! What I said was that, Dems aren't happy with NAFTA.
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Okay, so what? NAFTA is not some holy grail and can be replaced with something better, but there will never be anything better if Trump is acting out of resentment rather then sound economic goals.
 
tosca1 said:
A lot of "what if."
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And you do not think it is not smart to prepare for the worst? Why should I assume Trump is acting in good faith in these talks?

I ask you again would you approve of Canada signing a one sided deal? Can you answer this question or will you deflect again?
 
Yes_Minister said:
And you do not think it is not smart to prepare for the worst? Why should I assume Trump is acting in good faith in these talks?
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What if Trump is also reacting due to Trudeau's big mouth? By the looks of it, Trump's got a long memory....

"What ifs" comes too late when some damage has already been done.
Instead of assuming it'll be Clinton (and sunny ways will continue), Trudeau should've thought...."what if Trump wins the election and become President?" He should've been diplomatic and stayed out from the fray.

He shouldn't have made himself look like outgoing Obama's lackey.




I ask you again would you approve of Canada signing a one sided deal? Can you answer this question or will you deflect again?
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We've lost jobs too, to Mexico, didn't we? Why are we in that situation?

Only a moron would agree to a one-sided deal (unless you're on the winning side of that deal). :mrgreen:
 
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tosca1 said:
So what? :lol: If Dems don't like it either.....so why blame only Trump?
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Depends on what we are talking about, if we are talking about either changing NAFTA or replacing it with something else that makes things better for all involved, that's fine, if its resentment politics and believing that Canada has somehow cheated the US and must be punished, I do not care if Trump or some Democrat believes that, its not true and its destructive.
 
tosca1 said:
What if Trump is also reacting due to Trudeau's big mouth? By the looks of it, Trump's got a long memory....

"What ifs" comes too late when some damage has already been done.
Instead of assuming it'll be Clinton (and sunny ways will continue), Trudeau should've thought...."what if Trump wins the election and become President?" He should've been diplomatic and stayed out from the fray.

He shouldn't have made himself look like outgoing Obama's lackey.
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What did Trudeau say that was so offensive to Trump?

Seems like you are just making excuses for Trump making policies out spite and pettiness.

Frankly at this point, I think you may be so partisan that as long Trump wins and Trudeau loses, you don't care if Trump damages the Canadian economy and throws Canadians out of work.


tosca1 said:
We've lost jobs too, to Mexico, didn't we? Why are we in that situation?

Only a moron would agree to a one-sided deal (unless you're on the winning side of that deal). :mrgreen:
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What's your solution then? What's your evidence that if Trump got out NAFTA and promoted a bi-lateral deal between Canada and the US, that he wouldn't make that deal one sided as well?
 
Yes_Minister said:
What did Trudeau say that was so offensive to Trump?
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He took potshots at Trump during the primary race. I gave the source somewhere a while back. He's also been taking potshots at him about Trump's immigration policy. Why do you think we've got the border crisis now? Because, reckless big-mouth Trudeau issued an open invitation to all refugees fleeing persecution of all stripes - he even said we don't care whom they love!



Seems like you are just making excuses for Trump making policies out spite and pettiness.
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Well I don't care what it seems like to you. The point is, Trudeau didn't handle things diplomatically....and we could be paying for his recklessness now. Trump's making him jump through all these hoops! Why do you think Trudeau looked so timid in their last meeting at Washington, before the press?





Poker face my foot, Trump's calling all the shots!

Lol. Big-mouths can't have any poker faces! They've let it all hang out. :lamo




Frankly at this point, I think you may be so partisan that as long Trump wins and Trudeau loses, you don't care if Trump damages the Canadian economy and throws Canadians out of work.
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You didn't get that yet? What part of "I'm hoping Trump will help oust Trudeau, I don't care as long as Trudeau is gone, isn't so clear?"

I'm looking past my nose - the big picture. You may not know it but I think Trump is the best thing that happened to Canada. Just imagine how it would be had Clinton won - OPEN BORDERS!

Trudeau is the one who's sinking us down with all his reckless spending!



What's your solution then?
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Get rid of Trudeau! Start all over again...with someone who's at least smart.
 
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tosca1 said:
He took potshots at Trump during the primary race. I gave the source somewhere a while back. He's also been taking potshots at him about Trump's immigration policy. Why do you think we've got the border crisis now? Because, reckless big-mouth Trudeau issued an open invitation to all refugees fleeing persecution of all stripes - he even said we don't care whom they love!


Well I don't care what it seems like to you. The point is, Trudeau didn't handle things diplomatically....and we could be paying for his recklessness now. Trump's making him jump through all these hoops! Why do you think Trudeau looked so timid in their last meeting at Washington, before the press?

Poker face my foot, Trump's calling all the shots!

Lol. Big-mouths can't have any poker faces! They've let it all hang out. :lamo
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Trudeau also went to Washington and said its not Canada's place criticize internal policy and do not say anything relevant about Charlottesville.

I think you think anyone who doesn't act like Trump's lackey is taking pot shots at him, heck Sessions was about as loyal as can be and Trump still went after him.

What do you want, someone who greets Trump by saying "Yes Master! How may I serve you?"

If you think Harper would be doing better, I think you are mistaken, Trump will turn against people on a whim, the minute Harper did anything to displease him (which is inevitable given his thin skin) Trump would started a fight with him. All your Trump worship blinds you to his flaws.


tosca1 said:
You didn't get that yet? What part of "I'm hoping Trump will help oust Trudeau, I don't care as long as Trudeau is gone, isn't so clear?"

I'm looking past my nose - the big picture. You may not know it but I think Trump is the best thing that happened to Canada. Just imagine how it would be had Clinton won - OPEN BORDERS!

Trudeau is the one who's sinking us down with all his reckless spending!
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How much will Trump's increased nuclear stockpile, new military spending and tax cuts increase the debt by?

And Canada needs immigration to increase its population, do you want Canada to end up like Japan, with a declining population that is not being replaced due to Japan's xenophobic immigration policies?

Its not like there are millions of undocumented immigrants coming to Canada, Canada is not Lebanon, there are not millions of Syrian Refugees here. This whole idea that Canada is being overwhelmed with immigrants is a race baiting fantasy, not a fact. Canada still has its point system and we do not know how many people who cross the order have legitimate refugee cases or not.

And you seem to totally unwilling to confront the role Trump plays in this refugee situation:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...35896530/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

I guess in the world of "alt facts" any facts that make Trump look bad are dismissed immediately.

On the immigration issue, you can just present paranoid fantasies, rather then real hard facts. Frankly you seem paranoid about immigration fears, that you don't seem to care whether Trump puts tariffs on Canada or puts Canadians out of work.



tosca1 said:
Get rid of Trudeau! Start all over again...with someone who's at least smart.
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Seems like your suffering from Trudeau Derangement Syndrome.


Should Canada be like Puerto Rico and be Americans who can't vote in Elections or should Trump appoint our leaders for us? Maybe Bannon can be Imperial Overseer of Canada.

Yeah, at this point I am being facetious, because all you have done is thrown some Bretibart conspiracy theories at me and have not even bothered to put in a Canadian context, a middle power thrives more globalized system than you realize.

I am going to say Trudeau is a just mediocre neo liberal, who happens to be better then Trump, because frankly that is the easiest bar in the world to clear. Your fawning over Trump shows a total lack of objectivity and shows the depth of the partisanship you have, that you would do anything to sell Canada out to a foreign leader who plays to your fears, regardless of how much he may hurt Canada. I can criticize Trudeau easier then you can criticize Trump (for example I am mad Trudeau went back on his promise to the change the election system), because I do not believe in being so partisan that it over takes my good judgment.

I will say one thing, Trump may do Canada a favor, by making Canada realize it has over relied on the US and has to find more stable trading partners, because Trump's trade policy is driven by resentment, not good economic planning:


Frankly if you are going to do so throw Breitbart alt facts at me, maybe this debate between us is at an impasse.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Trudeau also went to Washington and said its not Canada's place criticize internal policy and do not say anything relevant about Charlottesville.
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He took potshots at Trump's immigration ban! That's why he issued the OPEN INVITATION to all!

Trudeau's actions contradict his statement about not Canada's place to criticize! He didn't mention Trump and the USA - but the implications are very clear! He's a liar and a hypocrite!

He's been strutting before the world stage at Trump's expense.
If he's a female.....I'd say he's being bitchy catty. :)
 
Yes_Minister said:
I will say one thing, Trump may do Canada a favor, by making Canada realize it has over relied on the US and has to find more stable trading partners, because Trump's trade policy is driven by resentment, not good economic planning:
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Maybe it's because of the big mouth strutting pup?

Why don't we try someone different (with smart).....and see if Trump will treat him the way he does Trudeau.
Had it been Harper who's sitting now, I bet trade will go very well between the two countries.
 
Other reasons Trump has a knife to sharpen:



What does the Muslim Brotherhood and Justin Trudeau have in common?

BARACK OBAMA.




What does the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, AL-QAEDA, Barack Obama, and Justin Trudeau have in common?

HATRED FOR CHRISTIANS.
 
tosca1 said:
Maybe it's because of the big mouth strutting pup?

Why don't we try someone different (with smart).....and see if Trump will treat him the way he does Trudeau.
Had it been Harper who's sitting now, I bet trade will go very well between the two countries.
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If you think Harper would have treated better, how do you explain how Trump goes after loyalists like Sessions? You are so blinded by your love of Trump, that you ignore his flaws. You seem to turn this into a religion, where Trump is a god and Trudeau is a devil, where one can only doing right and the other can only do wrong.
 
Yes_Minister said:
If you think Harper would have treated better, how do you explain how Trump goes after loyalists like Sessions? You are so blinded by your love of Trump, that you ignore his flaws. You seem to turn this into a religion, where Trump is a god and Trudeau is a devil, where one can only doing right and the other can only do wrong.
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:roll:

What's happening between Trump and his admin - that's their internal problem. You know squat about the details.

I say Harper would've been treated differently by Trump, is due to the fact that Harper behaved differently than Trudeau. When Trump won the election, Harper sent his congratulations pronto!

https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/796386491203284996?lang=en

Harper wouldn't have involved himself with US politics before the election. He's not stupid.
And, he's definitely not an Obama stooge.
 
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tosca1 said:
We don't know the details!

If what the USA wants is a "no-starter"....then why is the negotiation still going on??? It's even extended!

Do you know?
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Overly simplistic question and really shoddy debating tactic, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. One. There are 1,300 "issues" of concern", 2,400 "matters for discussion and....

The term "non starter" I believe in this case was in reference to ONE aspect of the talks and that had to deal with Canada's largely self contained dairy industry...trump supporters in Wisconsin want unlimited access to our market...which is a "non starter" and WILL absolutely kill the deal. However, there are still some 10,000 OTHER things to talk about which might or might change the perspective of all concerned before the end. FYI, even wild fire responses, insurance etc. are covered in that deal.

So you know, the head Canadian negotiator told CBC News yesterday they remain "hopeful"...which is two steps down from "confident". The inside word is that Trump is bumping up demands, often changing in the course of a day, which appears to be designed to have the talks "fail"...thus matching his agenda from the beginning.

I believe her words were meant for American lawmakers who are more on Canada's side.

However and this is point two, it's been extended because new aspects have been added. Give and take. Professional negotiators are involved and whether we like it or not they are actually negotiating at both ends, as sooner or later someone has to go to the boss and say "this is the best we will get." And more people at all levels of government, despite Trump's demands, want a deal.

Three, there are growing indications that Trump's politics may be over-ruled. In the end some negotiating is necessary there too, it isn't a deal until passed by congress and signed by both parties.
 
Yes_Minister said:
If you think Harper would have treated better, how do you explain how Trump goes after loyalists like Sessions? You are so blinded by your love of Trump, that you ignore his flaws. You seem to turn this into a religion, where Trump is a god and Trudeau is a devil, where one can only doing right and the other can only do wrong.
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I think that pretty much described the core Trump supporter. I mean to them lying to cover a lie is OK.
 
tosca1 said:
:roll:

What's happening between Trump and his admin - that's their internal problem. You know squat about the details.

I say Harper would've been treated differently by Trump, is due to the fact that Harper behaved differently than Trudeau. When Trump won the election, Harper sent his congratulations pronto!

https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/796386491203284996?lang=en

Harper wouldn't have involved himself with US politics before the election. He's not stupid.
And, he's definitely not an Obama stooge.
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OK, now for a bit of an education.

At this point in his career, Stephen Harper would send a tweet to a mass murderer for getting off he's so far buried in the Canadian forest called "obscurity." I suggest you read some of conservative columnist Andre Coyne re: Harper.

Two, I suggest you also read Coyne and other Canadian writers on the "strange relationship" between two opposites like Trudeau and Trump. Turns out there are many similarities, not the least of which is that Trudeau can be savagely cut throat when he needs to be [remember Pierre!] and from somewhere they have a least a distant wariness or predatory respect.

But "Little Stevie" and Trump? Harper would be holding Trump's hankercheif and following him around.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Overly simplistic question and really shoddy debating tactic, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. One. There are 1,300 "issues" of concern", 2,400 "matters for discussion and....

The term "non starter" I believe in this case was in reference to ONE aspect of the talks and that had to deal with Canada's largely self contained dairy industry...trump supporters in Wisconsin want unlimited access to our market...which is a "non starter" and WILL absolutely kill the deal. However, there are still some 10,000 OTHER things to talk about which might or might change the perspective of all concerned before the end. FYI, even wild fire responses, insurance etc. are covered in that deal.

So you know, the head Canadian negotiator told CBC News yesterday they remain "hopeful"...which is two steps down from "confident". The inside word is that Trump is bumping up demands, often changing in the course of a day, which appears to be designed to have the talks "fail"...thus matching his agenda from the beginning.

I believe her words were meant for American lawmakers who are more on Canada's side.

However and this is point two, it's been extended because new aspects have been added. Give and take. Professional negotiators are involved and whether we like it or not they are actually negotiating at both ends, as sooner or later someone has to go to the boss and say "this is the best we will get." And more people at all levels of government, despite Trump's demands, want a deal.

Three, there are growing indications that Trump's politics may be over-ruled. In the end some negotiating is necessary there too, it isn't a deal until passed by congress and signed by both parties.
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That's what I'm saying. They are in the process of negotiations. We don't know the full details - we're not privvy to their strategies or tactics.
Are they bluffing or not? We can't say for sure.

Everyone's got their own tactics to negotiate - why would anyone assume that all negotiations would be the same? Some negotiators play hardball. Some are cutthroats. Some will think only of getting as much as they can for the interest of their own nation - especially when they know that they've got the clout!


Trump has no obligation to Canada! It'll depend on our own Canadian negotiatiors how Canada will fare in this.
So we better make sure our negotiators are HIGHLY experienced in the art of negotiations, and that they know their stuffs!
 
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Fearandloathing said:
But "Little Stevie" and Trump? Harper would be holding Trump's hankercheif and following him around.
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What do you think Trudeau is being forced or manipulated to do now? :mrgreen:

The last time I checked - Goodale is asking the USA for help regarding our border crisis.



Keep a 'wary eye' on U.S. travel visas, Goodale tells American counterpart
Ralph Goodale says some migrants are obtaining U.S. travel visas for the sole purpose of coming to Canada

Goodale said he asked Duke to consider alerting Canadian authorities when the U.S. is about to make policy decisions that would affect the border, in order to give agencies such as border services time to prepare.
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Keep a 'wary eye' on U.S. travel visas, Goodale tells American counterpart - Politics - CBC News



Trudeau may've made himself look good before the liberal global stage (after his first timely open invitation to all persecuted refugees (right after Trump declared the travel ban) - he's become predictable with his strutting and his big mouth)......maybe, Trump took advantage of that.

I wonder if the border crisis wasn't really planned to happen - knowing that this is what'll happen.
I wonder if Trump had a hand in putting Trudeau's foot in Justin's mouth? :lol:

Now, who has the border headache? Who's forced to chew and swallow that open invitation to all?



If Harper would've followed Trump around - I say, if - I don't think Trump would've made him jump hoops the way he's toying with Trudeau now. Negotiations would be more amenable. There'll be a positive open communication between the two countries.....after all, Harper's stance is quite compatible with Trump's in other areas, from border policies, fighting terrorism, environment, improvement of military etc..,
 
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tosca1 said:
What do you think Trudeau is being forced or manipulated to do now? :mrgreen:

The last time I checked - Goodale is asking the USA for help regarding our border crisis.




Keep a 'wary eye' on U.S. travel visas, Goodale tells American counterpart - Politics - CBC News



Trudeau may've made himself look good before the liberal global stage (after his first timely open invitation to all persecuted refugees (right after Trump declared the travel ban) - he's become predictable with his strutting and his big mouth)......maybe, Trump took advantage of that.

I wonder if the border crisis wasn't really planned to happen - knowing that this is what'll happen.
I wonder if Trump had a hand in putting Trudeau's foot in Justin's mouth? :lol:

Now, who has the border headache? Who's forced to chew and swallow that open invitation to all?



If Harper would've followed Trump around - I say, if - I don't think Trump would've made him jump hoops the way he's toying with Trudeau now. Negotiations would be more amenable. There'll be a positive open communication between the two countries.....after all, Harper's stance is quite compatible with Trump's in other areas, from border policies, fighting terrorism, environment, improvement of military etc..,
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Hey Tosca, we may be getting another load of illegals from America when Trump signs another piece of legislation that is now going to force 50, 000 Haitians back to Haiti. All might just decide that they not want to go back to that hell hole so they may decide to head for Canada thanks to Trudeau and his come on in invitation. Aw well, it will probably only cost the Canadian taxpayer's billions more to take care of this load. Canadians wonder why their taxes are so high? Well, when Trudeau keeps letting these criminal illegals in it's no wonder taxes are so dam high. Sad indeed.
 
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