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Ontario teachers’ union wants John A. Macdonald schools renamed

Carjosse

Carjosse

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I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:
The union representing Ontario's public elementary school teachers wants the name of Canada's first prime minister to be removed from schools in the province.

The Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario passed a motion at its annual meeting last week calling on all school districts in Ontario to rename schools and buildings named after Sir John A. Macdonald.

The union says it wants the name change because of what it calls Macdonald's role as the "architect of genocide against Indigenous Peoples."

Related: Trudeau renames Langevin Block building out of respect for Indigenous peoples

Macdonald was prime minister during the time the federal government approved the first residential schools in the country.

The ETFO's call comes after a student-led campaign at Toronto's Ryerson University last month pushed for the school to change its name out of respect for residential school survivors.

The downtown university is named for Egerton Ryerson, a pioneer of public education in Ontario who is widely believed to have helped shape residential school policy through his ideas on education for Indigenous children.

And in June, the name of founding father Hector-Louis Langevin was stripped from the building that houses the Prime Minister's Office on Parliament Hill. Langevin argued for a separate school system with a specific mandate to assimilate Indigenous children.
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How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
 
Carjosse said:
I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:


How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
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haha... I literally just saw this on the plant TV in the lunch room, thought it would make for a fun post, but you beat me to it.

I have to research the complaint a bit more, but honestly, doesn't bother me...and by that I mean, it doesn't bother me either way, leave it up, take it down, don't care. This is the danger when we literally put people on pedestals, no one is perfect, societal morals change over time, so eventually every statue ever meant to memorialize anyone will piss someone off and be brought down if in public places that people pay taxes for.

Hopefully as Canadians we can be a little less drama about it, understand that times change, and that these people will still be taught in our school books, the history will not be lost. I'd ask the same thing I'd ask about confederate memorials to anyone who is overly excited about this: When's the last time you went to it to pay your respects to John A. MacDonald...if the answer is never, why so upset?
 
OlNate said:
haha... I literally just saw this on the plant TV in the lunch room, thought it would make for a fun post, but you beat me to it.

I have to research the complaint a bit more, but honestly, doesn't bother me...and by that I mean, it doesn't bother me either way, leave it up, take it down, don't care. This is the danger when we literally put people on pedestals, no one is perfect, societal morals change over time, so eventually every statue ever meant to memorialize anyone will piss someone off and be brought down if in public places that people pay taxes for.

Hopefully as Canadians we can be a little less drama about it, understand that times change, and that these people will still be taught in our school books, the history will not be lost. I'd ask the same thing I'd ask about confederate memorials to anyone who is overly excited about this: When's the last time you went to it to pay your respects to John A. MacDonald...if the answer is never, why so upset?
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We live in the country he laid the groundwork for, there would no Canada from coast to coast if at all without him. It is the equivalent of Americans wanting to remove George Washington.
 
Carjosse said:
We live in the country he laid the groundwork for, there would no Canada from coast to coast if at all without him. It is the equivalent of Americans wanting to remove George Washington.
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And yet... Meh. Again, how often do you find yourself going to that school to reflect on the man? He's dead, he doesn't care...

I accept and respect your point of view, but is it more important to make up for the evils of the residential school system, or have a guy's name on a high school that no one cares about until someone suggests it should be moved? Different people will answer differently, I guess... As for me, as long as he's talk in the schools, honestly, both good and bad, I don't care if the side of a school I never see bears his name or not.
 
OlNate said:
And yet... Meh. Again, how often do you find yourself going to that school to reflect on the man? He's dead, he doesn't care...

I accept and respect your point of view, but is it more important to make up for the evils of the residential school system, or have a guy's name on a high school that no one cares about until someone suggests it should be moved? Different people will answer differently, I guess... As for me, as long as he's talk in the schools, honestly, both good and bad, I don't care if the side of a school I never see bears his name or not.
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He is not the architect of some grand genocide against Natives as they are painting it. He is integral to Canadian history and identity, and he deserves immortalized as such.

My problem with these kinds of people is that they want to remove people and events from history because it might be offensive. They are nothing but worthless people who want to sanitize history for being too "offensive". If they don't like it they are free to leave the country. If the teacher's union is going to push for this pointless bull**** they need to be dissolved.
 
Carjosse said:
I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:


How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
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We should all be very afraid...
 
MaggieD said:
We should all be very afraid...
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I will have to see how the Ontario Liberals deal with it, if they bend to their will they will have lost my support and my vote. No doubt the NDP will will take the reins of the cause though.
 
Carjosse said:
I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:


How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
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Blatant 'me-too-ism'. Copycat wannabe's. Hope they get the scorn and ridicule they deserve.
 
Carjosse said:
He is not the architect of some grand genocide against Natives as they are painting it. He is integral to Canadian history and identity, and he deserves immortalized as such.

My problem with these kinds of people is that they want to remove people and events from history because it might be offensive. They are nothing but worthless people who want to sanitize history for being too "offensive". If they don't like it they are free to leave the country. If the teacher's union is going to push for this pointless bull**** they need to be dissolved.
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It's got nothing to do with removing them from history, it's merely taking them down from these weird pedestals that people thought were necessary in the past. Again, tell me how often you get in the car and perform a pilgrimage to the school in question to contemplate the life and times of this guy....?

Seems like we Canadians are becoming wanna be Americans, both with our causes and our outrage at those causes. Guess we'll see which side wins... Me, I might be able to care less, just not sure how... The only thing that will change as a result of this is that the school will have a new name that no one will pay attention to, and some native folk will feel better about the country they live in, which, after what they've been put through, doesn't bug me in the slightest.
 
EDIT: Oops, double post, not sure what happened there, sorry.
 
OlNate said:
It's got nothing to do with removing them from history, it's merely taking them down from these weird pedestals that people thought were necessary in the past. Again, tell me how often you get in the car and perform a pilgrimage to the school in question to contemplate the life and times of this guy....?

Seems like we Canadians are becoming wanna be Americans, both with our causes and our outrage at those causes. Guess we'll see which side wins... Me, I might be able to care less, just not sure how... The only thing that will change as a result of this is that the school will have a new name that no one will pay attention to, and some native folk will feel better about the country they live in, which, after what they've been put through, doesn't bug me in the slightest.
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It is people being offended for the sake of being offended. I am not for changing things especially historically significant things because some people might be offended. It is the spineless idiots creating the problem solely they can be offended and look "progressive".
 
Carjosse said:
It is people being offended for the sake of being offended. I am not for changing things especially historically significant things because some people might be offended. It is the spineless idiots creating the problem solely they can be offended and look "progressive".
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How are they spineless? Sorry, just curious, I know you want to diss the crap out of them, just seems like a weird word choice.

Anyway, seems like you're pretty determined to be very upset about this, so I'll wish you as much luck with that as I'll wish the folks who are pretty determined to be very upset about the name on the side of the school. You can both build mountains out of molehills until you wear yourselves out, and we can go back to being the chill Canada that doesn't get bent out of shape at the drop of a hat that we used to be. Hopefully. :)
 
Carjosse said:
He is not the architect of some grand genocide against Natives as they are painting it. He is integral to Canadian history and identity, and he deserves immortalized as such.

My problem with these kinds of people is that they want to remove people and events from history because it might be offensive. They are nothing but worthless people who want to sanitize history for being too "offensive". If they don't like it they are free to leave the country. If the teacher's union is going to push for this pointless bull**** they need to be dissolved.
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One could look at it from a different aspect

How many people know about his history regarding Indians and the residential schools, or regarding asians in BC? When I was in school (many years ago before the residential schools became a well known issue) nothing negative was taught about him. It might be now. Those negatives were "removed from history" because I expect many Canadians would have been offended by negative things being said about the founder of the country.

The "white washing of history" to remove negative aspects of people in it, is also not the way to go.

As for renaming everything that has his name on it, I am against that. But the history of the man should be taught in full, including the negative aspects rather than what I remember from school. Which had nothing negative about the man.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
One could look at it from a different aspect

How many people know about his history regarding Indians and the residential schools, or regarding asians in BC? When I was in school (many years ago before the residential schools became a well known issue) nothing negative was taught about him. It might be now. Those negatives were "removed from history" because I expect many Canadians would have been offended by negative things being said about the founder of the country.

The "white washing of history" to remove negative aspects of people in it, is also not the way to go.

As for renaming everything that has his name on it, I am against that. But the history of the man should be taught in full, including the negative aspects rather than what I remember from school. Which had nothing negative about the man.
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I am not against that either but I am against painting him as an architect of some grand genocide.
 
OlNate said:
How are they spineless? Sorry, just curious, I know you want to diss the crap out of them, just seems like a weird word choice.

Anyway, seems like you're pretty determined to be very upset about this, so I'll wish you as much luck with that as I'll wish the folks who are pretty determined to be very upset about the name on the side of the school. You can both build mountains out of molehills until you wear yourselves out, and we can go back to being the chill Canada that doesn't get bent out of shape at the drop of a hat that we used to be. Hopefully. :)
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They are people who try to find offense in everything, they are spineless, they cannot understand things that disagree with their perfect sanitized view of the world.No one cared until these idiots came along and decided they were going to get offended at everything.
 
Carjosse said:
No one cared until these idiots came along and decided they were going to get offended at everything.
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Exactly...so why get all bent and twisted now? Just to put someone in their place? lol... Whatever, expend your energy how you want, I guess... :) I don't hate ya, I'm not calling you names, I just have better things to be worried about.
 
OlNate said:
Exactly...so why get all bent and twisted now? Just to put someone in their place? lol... Whatever, expend your energy how you want, I guess... :) I don't hate ya, I'm not calling you names, I just have better things to be worried about.
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They want to force their world view on everyone else, in the name of being offended. Society should not change just because someone might be offended by something because then you wash away tradition, history, and identity.
 
Carjosse said:
I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:


How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
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I'm sorry the cancer has spread north of the border too.
 
Carjosse said:
They want to force their world view on everyone else, in the name of being offended. Society should not change just because someone might be offended by something because then you wash away tradition, history, and identity.
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Yup, and still, none of that happens when you change school names....lol.... I'm aware of zero traditions that involve reading names off the side of schools, no one is claiming they want him removed from the history books (though they might want to add some facts that may have been previously omitted, ironically in the name of whitewashing), and I'm Canadian because of who we are today, not because of what our ancestors were a century and a half ago, I have nothing in common with those people, so they are not at all important to my Canadian identity today.

And aren't you forcing your view of the world on everyone else, because you're offended? Again, before this, how many times have you ever gone to a school to look at the name on the wall and reflect on Canadian history? You still haven't answered this, despite being asked multiple times, and I suspect we both know why, the answer is never, like most Canadians. I love the demographic that loses their minds when somebody wants something done in the name of political correctness, when previous to that they couldn't have cared less. You don't care about John A. MacDonald, you care about saying F-U to PCism.

Times change, heroes change, stories change...calm down over there, good grief, you Quebecers are an excitable bunch, tabernac!! ;) haha
 
Carjosse said:
I was reading the Globe and Mail today and this is on the front page:


How ****ing stupid are these people? I think this is a great case for dissolving the teacher's union, if this is the kind of bull**** they are going to be pushing. They are equating the man who essentially united Canada to Hendrik Verwoerd the architect of South African Apartheid or Hitler.

This is ****ing PC insanity.
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Yeah, we need to eradicate any unification of workers. The "job creator" class is all about that.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Yeah, we need to eradicate any unification of workers. The "job creator" class is all about that.
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If this is what they have concerned themselves with they are not serving the interests of their workers they are just flat out being political. If they are not going to do their jobs they should be dissolved.
 
Carjosse said:
If this is what they have concerned themselves with they are not serving the interests of their workers they are just flat out being political. If they are not going to do their jobs they should be dissolved.
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Economic censorship of citizens to criticize their government.
 
OlNate said:
Yup, and still, none of that happens when you change school names....lol.... I'm aware of zero traditions that involve reading names off the side of schools, no one is claiming they want him removed from the history books (though they might want to add some facts that may have been previously omitted, ironically in the name of whitewashing), and I'm Canadian because of who we are today, not because of what our ancestors were a century and a half ago, I have nothing in common with those people, so they are not at all important to my Canadian identity today.

And aren't you forcing your view of the world on everyone else, because you're offended? Again, before this, how many times have you ever gone to a school to look at the name on the wall and reflect on Canadian history? You still haven't answered this, despite being asked multiple times, and I suspect we both know why, the answer is never, like most Canadians. I love the demographic that loses their minds when somebody wants something done in the name of political correctness, when previous to that they couldn't have cared less. You don't care about John A. MacDonald, you care about saying F-U to PCism.

Times change, heroes change, stories change...calm down over there, good grief, you Quebecers are an excitable bunch, tabernac!! ;) haha
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Do you not see the problem with changing things because some people might just be offended? It starts the slippery slope for erasing history and identity in the name of being PC. They want to paint McDonald as some genocidal maniac, which he never was. If the Ontario Liberals cave they will lose my vote simple as that, I am still Ontarian.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Economic censorship of citizens to criticize their government.
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It is already illegal for them to contribute to political campaigns, like corporations unions have no place in directly influencing politics especially those that have nothing to do with them.
 
Carjosse said:
Do you not see the problem with changing things because some people might just be offended? It starts the slippery slope for erasing history and identity in the name of being PC. They want to paint McDonald as some genocidal maniac, which he never was. If the Ontario Liberals cave they will lose my vote simple as that, I am still Ontarian.
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I hate to break it to you, man, but it's human nature. Maybe it's happening faster than normal now, because we are all so connected, so societal decisions can take place more rapidly, in terms of what is and is not acceptable right now, but if you think this is a new phenomenon, why aren't we burning witches at the stake? Why don't have gladiators in arenas killing each other for our enjoyment? Why are women allowed to vote? Why are we about to legalize pot? Things are acceptable (or unacceptable) until enough people think they are not. That's literally all it takes, that's literally all it's ever took.

Maybe it's Sir John A's time, maybe it's not, but eventually it will be. The Romans made excellent statues...which are mostly dust now...and a lot of those masterpieces were destroyed because they were offensive to what came after the Roman Empire. Nothing is permanent. I'm not going to get my blood pressure up because some guy that died a hundred or more years ago with a problematic history *might* have his name removed from schools. More important stuff to worry about, as I said. :)
 
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