Blm

Can KMA.

They brought pressure to bear and forced a limited police participation in the Vancouver Gay Pride parade.
Who do you think you are? Get off my lawn.

Mounties are so gay.

Grand Mal said:

Can KMA.

They brought pressure to bear and forced a limited police participation in the Vancouver Gay Pride parade.
Who do you think you are? Get off my lawn.

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This one actually surprises me from ya, Mal...especially after last year's Toronto Pride parade. Haven't read anything about it yet, but Toronto's Pride, sans cops, went off without a hitch... What's the angst all about?

OlNate said:

This one actually surprises me from ya, Mal...especially after last year's Toronto Pride parade. Haven't read anything about it yet, but Toronto's Pride, sans cops, went off without a hitch... What's the angst all about?

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For me, the whole BLM thing is irrelevant in Canada. We don't have those issues. Are we importing causes? Are we selling exposure to people who have no foundation in our culture?

Grand Mal said:

For me, the whole BLM thing is irrelevant in Canada. We don't have those issues. Are we importing causes? Are we selling exposure to people who have no foundation in our culture?

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Likely...yes. And the reality is that the vast majority of 'movements' in this country are doing the same thing. People looking for causes to give their lives meaning. Rebels without a clue.

Grand Mal said:

For me, the whole BLM thing is irrelevant in Canada. We don't have those issues. Are we importing causes? Are we selling exposure to people who have no foundation in our culture?

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I guess it depends on what you think "those issues" are. We definitely have a lower number of people being killed by police, which I think our gun laws are primarily to thank for. "I thought he had a gun" just isn't as unquestioned up here, as it would be where there's a much higher likelihood that someone you're dealing with has a gun. But that doesn't mean people aren't getting harassed or having their asses kicked because they are black. That would include people in the gay community as well. I dunno, man, I think it's the right thing to do for the Pride organizations to side with BLM on this one. Pride was a protest long before it became the big corporate event it is today, and I while I think the celebration is great, unless all members of the community are experiencing the same conditions worth celebrating, it might also be a bit premature.

OlNate said:

I guess it depends on what you think "those issues" are. We definitely have a lower number of people being killed by police, which I think our gun laws are primarily to thank for. "I thought he had a gun" just isn't as unquestioned up here, as it would be where there's a much higher likelihood that someone you're dealing with has a gun. But that doesn't mean people aren't getting harassed or having their asses kicked because they are black. That would include people in the gay community as well. I dunno, man, I think it's the right thing to do for the Pride organizations to side with BLM on this one. Pride was a protest long before it became the big corporate event it is today, and I while I think the celebration is great, unless all members of the community are experiencing the same conditions worth celebrating, it might also be a bit premature.

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What I think those issues are is a protest against a disproportionate number of black people being shot by cops. In the US. It's an American issue. We're talking about people with a problem about what';s happening in another country importing their protest (valid as it might be) into another country that just hasn't got the same problem.
And the Vancouver police deserve their participation. They don't shoot black people.

Grand Mal said:

What I think those issues are is a protest against a disproportionate number of black people being shot by cops. In the US. It's an American issue. We're talking about people with a problem about what';s happening in another country importing their protest (valid as it might be) into another country that just hasn't got the same problem.
And the Vancouver police deserve their participation. They don't shoot black people.

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I think the scope of BLM has extended to include racially motivated police brutality of all types, including non-lethal...I can live with that. And I'm not aware of how it is in Vancouver, so this might be a solidarity thing, but I know 100% that here in Ontario there is an issue. It's not all police, not by far, but the problem exists and continues to exist, so I have to wonder at what point complacency or turning a blind eye begins to accrue responsibility. Besides, it's a pride parade, not a police parade. As people they are welcome, just not the uniforms. I think it was the right move - I mean, in terms of being an amplifier of the overall message, here we are discussing BLM. It forces us to think about it, and being heard is half the battle, especially when so many people are happy to dismiss it. It seems like a small concession to make to help address a very real issue. I know good cops, but it doesn't make me want to get rid of the bad ones any less, you know? If this brings more attention to the problem, more power to them.

BLM in Canada is just a bunch of whack job black supremacists. I fully support removing all government funding for Toronto Pride and Vancouver Pride until all ties to BLM are cut.

OlNate said:

I think the scope of BLM has extended to include racially motivated police brutality of all types, including non-lethal...I can live with that. And I'm not aware of how it is in Vancouver, so this might be a solidarity thing, but I know 100% that here in Ontario there is an issue. It's not all police, not by far, but the problem exists and continues to exist, so I have to wonder at what point complacency or turning a blind eye begins to accrue responsibility. Besides, it's a pride parade, not a police parade. As people they are welcome, just not the uniforms. I think it was the right move - I mean, in terms of being an amplifier of the overall message, here we are discussing BLM. It forces us to think about it, and being heard is half the battle, especially when so many people are happy to dismiss it. It seems like a small concession to make to help address a very real issue. I know good cops, but it doesn't make me want to get rid of the bad ones any less, you know? If this brings more attention to the problem, more power to them.

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Except BLM Toronto is not about any of that, they are essentially a black supremacist movement, the leader of BLM Toronto makes Hitler sound subtle.

OlNate said:

I think the scope of BLM has extended to include racially motivated police brutality of all types, including non-lethal...I can live with that. And I'm not aware of how it is in Vancouver, so this might be a solidarity thing, but I know 100% that here in Ontario there is an issue. It's not all police, not by far, but the problem exists and continues to exist, so I have to wonder at what point complacency or turning a blind eye begins to accrue responsibility. Besides, it's a pride parade, not a police parade. As people they are welcome, just not the uniforms. I think it was the right move - I mean, in terms of being an amplifier of the overall message, here we are discussing BLM. It forces us to think about it, and being heard is half the battle, especially when so many people are happy to dismiss it. It seems like a small concession to make to help address a very real issue. I know good cops, but it doesn't make me want to get rid of the bad ones any less, you know? If this brings more attention to the problem, more power to them.

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Well, they got my attention.
For me, the VPD has as much right to participate in the Gay Pride Parade as BLM. And there's no racial issue with the police here that I know of, even given all the recent violence between gangs, violence often involving young East Indian men.
BLM protesting the police here sounds like a Free Tibet group wanting the Chinese Benevolent Society excluded. Go ahead, march to draw attention to a problem over there, but remember the problem is over there, not here.

Grand Mal said:

Can KMA.

They brought pressure to bear and forced a limited police participation in the Vancouver Gay Pride parade.
Who do you think you are? Get off my lawn.

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I can't speak to the situation in Canada, but as U.S. citizen (evil white male, but one that's never been remotely racist) I think BLM's tactics are horrible. They create enemies of people that would normally be supportive of them by doing stupid things to get attention. Shutting down roads and commuter trains will get you in the news, but everyone negatively impacted by their stunt won't be walking away a supporter.

Then you have the violent clingers to their marches that vandalize property.

That's what gets shown on TV.

<alt>doxygen said:

I can't speak to the situation in Canada, but as U.S. citizen (evil white male, but one that's never been remotely racist) I think BLM's tactics are horrible. They create enemies of people that would normally be supportive of them by doing stupid things to get attention. Shutting down roads and commuter trains will get you in the news, but everyone negatively impacted by their stunt won't be walking away a supporter.

Then you have the violent clingers to their marches that vandalize property.

That's what gets shown on TV.

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Yes, BLM has been very effective at making everyone despise them.

TheGoverness said:

Yes, BLM has been very effective at making everyone despise them.

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I heard a woman who claimed responsibility for shutting down a major rail artery between Oakland and SF for 4 hours. She claims to be doing the same stuff MLK did. I'm listening in my car going::doh:doh:doh:doh:doh

Carjosse said:

Except BLM Toronto is not about any of that, they are essentially a black supremacist movement, the leader of BLM Toronto makes Hitler sound subtle.

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Totally disagree, and the Hitler reference in this context is silly.

TheGoverness said:

Yes, BLM has been very effective at making everyone despise them.

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I thoroughly enjoy the fact that "polgara" and "alt doxygen" liked yer post.

MLK has a message fer you, little miss texazz:

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.

Grand Mal said:

Well, they got my attention.
For me, the VPD has as much right to participate in the Gay Pride Parade as BLM. And there's no racial issue with the police here that I know of, even given all the recent violence between gangs, violence often involving young East Indian men.
BLM protesting the police here sounds like a Free Tibet group wanting the Chinese Benevolent Society excluded. Go ahead, march to draw attention to a problem over there, but remember the problem is over there, not here.

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I'm not sure you're right.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...30939514/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Gimmesometruth said:

I thoroughly enjoy the fact that "polgara" and "alt doxygen" liked yer post.

MLK has a message fer you, little miss texazz:

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.

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Do you figure it was right that the Vancouver Police Department wasn't allowed to have a float in the parade because BLM said they shouldn't?

OlNate said:

Totally disagree, and the Hitler reference in this context is silly.

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Really because the leader of BLM Toronto is known for saying: Black people are inherently better than other ethnicities, she has called white people sub-human, and even wished death upon white people. I think it is an apt comparison.

These people are insane and they should be treated a such.

OlNate said:

I'm not sure you're right.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...30939514/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

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I can't say what it's like in Toronto. In Vancouver, there's very few black people, so few that you'd almost assume any you meet are tourists. There's more chance of a problem in the Native community, profiling young Native men, but I haven't heard it if there is. Maybe the reason I haven't heard of it is there's no Native equivalent to BLM, I don't know.

Grand Mal said:

Do you figure it was right that the Vancouver Police Department wasn't allowed to have a float in the parade because BLM said they shouldn't?

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Um, are you going to argue that Vancouver Pride didn't choose to not have VPD participate....or are you going to argue VBLM should not have an influence?

Gimmesometruth said:

Um, are you going to argue that Vancouver Pride didn't choose to not have VPD participate....or are you going to argue VBLM should not have an influence?

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Do you always answer a question with a question?

I have to amend my question- it wasn't a float, it was marked police vehicle and uniforms that were the issue. Do you think it was right that the VPD weren't allowed to wear uniforms because BLM said they shouldn't?

Grand Mal said:

Do you always answer a question with a question?

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Try the search function and find out, hurr durr.

I have to amend my question- it wasn't a float, it was marked police vehicle and uniforms that were the issue. Do you think it was right that the VPD weren't allowed to wear uniforms because BLM said they shouldn't?

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Again, which is it, should V Pride not have the final choice...or should VBLM not have an influence...because, as you you already argued...they represent a minority.

TheGoverness said:

Yes, BLM has been very effective at making everyone despise them.

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...and to add, I find it ironic that you have created a false absolute.

OlNate said:

I guess it depends on what you think "those issues" are. We definitely have a lower number of people being killed by police, which I think our gun laws are primarily to thank for. "I thought he had a gun" just isn't as unquestioned up here, as it would be where there's a much higher likelihood that someone you're dealing with has a gun. But that doesn't mean people aren't getting harassed or having their asses kicked because they are black. That would include people in the gay community as well. I dunno, man, I think it's the right thing to do for the Pride organizations to side with BLM on this one. Pride was a protest long before it became the big corporate event it is today, and I while I think the celebration is great, unless all members of the community are experiencing the same conditions worth celebrating, it might also be a bit premature.

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We had an incident involving black protestors in Columbus this year. It's caused a vocal minority in our community to turn against Stonewall and has required us to grapple with certain perceptions about racial issues and Pride events. Police presence and corporate involvement were some of those issues and they were raised by people who do not know anything about what is involved in organizing a Pride event.

Police presence at Pride events is not optional here - it is a permit requirement. The Columbus Police Department decides the presence required, Stonewall pays for it, and the receipt is required to obtain the permit under City Ordinance. What the protestors and their allies have demanded (yes - they issued "demands") is that Stonewall employ "community police" or a private security force instead. Not legally possible and also not really feasible. I don't have confidence that anyone is going to find enough "community police" to properly secure an event involving 700,000 people. Not to mention we're talking about people with no legitimate legal authority and no credentials other than maybe a t-shirt that says "Security" and some random person's say-so. If one of them approached me I'd be within my legal right to tell them to pound sand and so would the religious zealots who show up every year. If they try putting their hands on someone - they're legally liable for the outcome in a civil suit and Stonewall could be too. Either that or a private contractor with resources who answer to a corporation with the same problems as Joe Nobody in a "Security" t-shirt. The threats to our community during these events are very real - which is why Stonewall coordinates with the FBI and DHS - and no one wants to see a repeat of incidents in years past. The police are the only force equipped both physically and legally to adequately prevent and/or respond to those threats.

These events cost money. Lots of it. As things stand, it costs Stonewall Columbus $400K - several times it's revenue - so corporate sponsorship isn't going anywhere unless these protestors know some private donors willing to pay for it annually. And why should it? Corporations can be allies too and Stonewall Columbus requires them to provide proof of LGBT anti-discrimination policies to participate.

Yes, this all started as a protest but organizations like Stonewall did not exist back then. A lot has changed in the 48 years since the riots and these protests are completely unnecessary. There is no legitimate reason why these people should be sabotaging Pride events rather than engaging with Stonewall to be participants.