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BC General Election

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
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In two days BC will have its election, figured I would make a thread. CBC has the election as a dead heat between the Liberals and NDP, whoever is going to win is going to win by a very small margin. Personally I would rather see the NDP in power, the Liberals are incredibly corrupt and only the NDP wants to impose the same donation limits as other provinces and the federal government.
 
In two days BC will have its election, figured I would make a thread. CBC has the election as a dead heat between the Liberals and NDP, whoever is going to win is going to win by a very small margin. Personally I would rather see the NDP in power, the Liberals are incredibly corrupt and only the NDP wants to impose the same donation limits as other provinces and the federal government.

Don't disagree with you about the Liberals, but I'm not sure the NDP is much better. Their behavior through this election has been gross, and trying to discuss policy with supporters has the weird effect of making the most rabid Trump supporter seem reasonable. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a strong NDP...but they need to understand good policy is different than daydreams and manifestos. I lean left, to be sure...I just don't see the NDP as a means to get there, given they rarely actually win anything.

Plus, what they are doing / saying about Green Party supporters is awful.
 
Sitting here now 3 hours until the polls close. High early voter turnout. Votes won't be counted for several days and may make the difference between a win and a loss. The libs are horribly corrupt, but the NDP, which is essentially moribund, has nothing to offer at all. The simple fact they are terrified of the Green vote is sufficient proof of that. I expect the Greens to pick up a few votes, but no more seats. The pompous Weaver does them no favours. In any event, most of the votes they garner will be protest votes from those who cannot stomach either the Libs of the NDamnableP.
 
In two days BC will have its election, figured I would make a thread. CBC has the election as a dead heat between the Liberals and NDP, whoever is going to win is going to win by a very small margin. Personally I would rather see the NDP in power, the Liberals are incredibly corrupt and only the NDP wants to impose the same donation limits as other provinces and the federal government.



I have covered elections in BC dating back to '78, from Social Credit to Bill Vander Zalm to the NDP and Clark, the other one. I worked for a Liberal candidate last time. Sam Sullivan the former Mayor [one term] of Vancouver is my Liberal Candidate and I don't need to explain why I won't vote for that right-wing fascist who wants to put addicts in jail for being addicts. The riding will go Liberal in any event. I have seen nothing of an NDP candidate and the Green Candidate is gonzo, doesn't make sense and seems to be stunned he's even in the race.

For the first time in more than 30 years I am detached, uncaring and probably won't listen for the results. I consider voting like making a purchase, if there's nothing of value I don't buy.

The Liberals under Clark are old and stale, she is stale; unfortunately for her the LNG thing didn't happen; but then the other side of the aisle still has some crazies in it who we know will go ahead make nuclear weapons illegal in BC and build a new ferry fleet out of aluminum beer cans. John Horgan has the leadership charisma of road kill, no experience for the job and like Mike Harcourt is too nice a guy and will get stabbed in the back just like Harcourt.

Yes, Christy is in trouble, but the NDP is still stuck in the same time warp, they have to oppose resource development or lose the eco vote to the Greens, while at the same time keep the unions who fund them happy somehow by not building pipelines. We just know there is a mega-project in there to cure all the ills of the province
 
Don't disagree with you about the Liberals, but I'm not sure the NDP is much better. Their behavior through this election has been gross, and trying to discuss policy with supporters has the weird effect of making the most rabid Trump supporter seem reasonable. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a strong NDP...but they need to understand good policy is different than daydreams and manifestos. I lean left, to be sure...I just don't see the NDP as a means to get there, given they rarely actually win anything.

Plus, what they are doing / saying about Green Party supporters is awful.



I have to agree. "Liberal corruption" is an NDP talking point because it sort of sticks. However I know the NDP who are pretty much run by CUPE, BCGEU, Hospital workers union and now and again the nurses union.

The whole reason for the failed ferry fiasco was all about appeasing the big unions....and you know we're still paying the tab on that.
 
I have to agree. "Liberal corruption" is an NDP talking point because it sort of sticks. However I know the NDP who are pretty much run by CUPE, BCGEU, Hospital workers union and now and again the nurses union.

The whole reason for the failed ferry fiasco was all about appeasing the big unions....and you know we're still paying the tab on that.

Well right now it is a necessary evil, they have no chance to compete with the Liberals if they forgo that funding. That is why BC needs campaign finance reform. The BC Liberals are almost out funding the federal parties.
 
I have to agree. "Liberal corruption" is an NDP talking point because it sort of sticks. However I know the NDP who are pretty much run by CUPE, BCGEU, Hospital workers union and now and again the nurses union.

The whole reason for the failed ferry fiasco was all about appeasing the big unions....and you know we're still paying the tab on that.

Speaking of corruption lets not forget the Nanaimo Charities rip off and good old boy Dave Stupich. The fix was in for him. Met him a few times while covering the campaign, my sleaze alarm near broke itself.
 
Hehe...if BC were Survivor, the Green Party just became the most power folks on island...haha :)
 
Hehe...if BC were Survivor, the Green Party just became the most power folks on island...haha :)

The Greens are making the same error the Federal NDP did in Quebec a few elections back. Dear reader may recall they made amazing gains in Quebec and parts of Ontario and got all puffed up about it sure their star was ascendant. Of course, since all that "support" was merely revenge voting by folks pissed off at both the Bloc and Harper The Horrible they lost all those gains and more when next the electorate went to the polls.

The Green should, but will not, learn from this example. Meanwhile they will enjoy some petty power as they will be seriously courted by both the struggling NDP and desperate Libs.

Weaver's claim he and the Greens are not about political ambition, rings false.
 
The Greens are making the same error the Federal NDP did in Quebec a few elections back. Dear reader may recall they made amazing gains in Quebec and parts of Ontario and got all puffed up about it sure their star was ascendant. Of course, since all that "support" was merely revenge voting by folks pissed off at both the Bloc and Harper The Horrible they lost all those gains and more when next the electorate went to the polls.

The Green should, but will not, learn from this example. Meanwhile they will enjoy some petty power as they will be seriously courted by both the struggling NDP and desperate Libs.

Weaver's claim he and the Greens are not about political ambition, rings false.

I'm sure they have political ambition, but I think they also deliver solid policy. Given the other offerings, I would be more than tempted to support the Green Party. However, in my opinion, their biggest stumbling block is the fact that they are not looked at as a viable option...it's still seen as a throwaway vote. They're going to need to do better than good policy (unfortunately) to shake that stigma.

I think this election outcome gives them probably one of the best opportunities to demonstrate how they would lead, given that either side needs their support to get anything done. They will literally be the deciding vote for everything that happens in BC for the next while. Hopefully they use this opportunity to showcase their positives, and not waste it playing petty politics. I guess we'll see. :)
 
The Greens are making the same error the Federal NDP did in Quebec a few elections back. Dear reader may recall they made amazing gains in Quebec and parts of Ontario and got all puffed up about it sure their star was ascendant. Of course, since all that "support" was merely revenge voting by folks pissed off at both the Bloc and Harper The Horrible they lost all those gains and more when next the electorate went to the polls.

The Green should, but will not, learn from this example. Meanwhile they will enjoy some petty power as they will be seriously courted by both the struggling NDP and desperate Libs.

Weaver's claim he and the Greens are not about political ambition, rings false.

I thought the NDP gains in Quebec were more about rejecting Ignatieff as Liberal leader. I know I refused to vote while he was there. And the ascendancy of the Greens on the Big Island is pretty legitimate, looks to me. It seems they took votes from the Liberals, not the NDP as everyone figured. Andrew Weaver has said he prefers to deal with the Liberals, in part because he can talk to Clark and he said Horgan can't hold his temper. I know the NDP is slow to pull out the knives but if it's true that the leader's temperament will keep them from being in a position of power, his days might be numbered.
It all could change with recounts, though. 9 votes in Comox, and if the Liberals take it, that's their majority.
 
I thought the NDP gains in Quebec were more about rejecting Ignatieff as Liberal leader. I know I refused to vote while he was there. And the ascendancy of the Greens on the Big Island is pretty legitimate, looks to me. It seems they took votes from the Liberals, not the NDP as everyone figured. Andrew Weaver has said he prefers to deal with the Liberals, in part because he can talk to Clark and he said Horgan can't hold his temper. I know the NDP is slow to pull out the knives but if it's true that the leader's temperament will keep them from being in a position of power, his days might be numbered.
It all could change with recounts, though. 9 votes in Comox, and if the Liberals take it, that's their majority.

Well, the loss of those gains would seem to support my theory. I don't agree Green advances are legit rather than vengeful and Weaver, a pompous ass, clearly has political ambitions contrary to his claims. Horgan's days are numbered. He had to be dragooned into the post of leader in the first place, when no-one else would take the job, and his heart has never been in it. The NDP knives are always sharp and close at hand. If the recount and absentee votes give the Libs the win and simple majority, he'll be taking the short walk with the long fall at the end. The NDP are at best moribund both provincially and federally and with luck will soon fold their tattered tents and slink off into the untrammeled wilderness where they belong, never again to be heard from.

The Courtenay Comox seat is very interesting. The Lib candidate is a former base commander at CFB Comox and many of the absentee votes will be from military folks away for one reason or another. Much is being made of this, but the proof of that pudding will be seen on or about the 22nd of the month. Many political nails will be bitten to the quick by that time. However, absentee and recounts could change several other outcomes as well so...
 
Well, the loss of those gains would seem to support my theory. I don't agree Green advances are legit rather than vengeful and Weaver, a pompous ass, clearly has political ambitions contrary to his claims. Horgan's days are numbered. He had to be dragooned into the post of leader in the first place, when no-one else would take the job, and his heart has never been in it. The NDP knives are always sharp and close at hand. If the recount and absentee votes give the Libs the win and simple majority, he'll be taking the short walk with the long fall at the end. The NDP are at best moribund both provincially and federally and with luck will soon fold their tattered tents and slink off into the untrammeled wilderness where they belong, never again to be heard from.

The Courtenay Comox seat is very interesting. The Lib candidate is a former base commander at CFB Comox and many of the absentee votes will be from military folks away for one reason or another. Much is being made of this, but the proof of that pudding will be seen on or about the 22nd of the month. Many political nails will be bitten to the quick by that time. However, absentee and recounts could change several other outcomes as well so...

I liked the result so far. I thought going in that the best possible scenario was a Liberal minority with the Greens holding the balance but didn't think it could happen. I don't know much about Weaver so I'll have to take your word for his character but I thought it would be a good thing for Clark to need the approval of somebody, since she hasn't had to work for much for so long. And the NDP, well, their natural role is opposition.
I'll be a little surprised if this situation stays, though, for much the same reasons you mentioned. Something tells me, too, that if, after the dust has settled, the NDP ends up with a minority gov't, the Greens would bring them down on the first vote. Unless Horgan suckholes like a bastard to them.
 
Speaking of corruption lets not forget the Nanaimo Charities rip off and good old boy Dave Stupich. The fix was in for him. Met him a few times while covering the campaign, my sleaze alarm near broke itself.



Three decades ago. Different times, and most of the working political press was aware of it when I arrived. It was a result of my investigation that Dave Barrett eventually came forward with his story of a "brown bag of cash".
Even then he lied.

But at the same time I arrived in the middle of letter-gate and "Gracie's Finger", so there were no white hats....compared to Quebec it was tame, near boring. Compared to Regina it was Watergate North.

Canadians get the government they deserve and since we don't pay ANY attention till it's over, we get off again and on again corruption. I didn't find the current brand of Liberals all that corrupt, again it was more 'talking point". However they were incompetent. NOTHING runs smoothly and takes twice as many people to run it in this province, and where we have had some great success with cool programs they've rolled so much back to balance the budget there isn't much there.

You need a Barrister of the first rank to deal with the bureaucracy, which means the elderly, infirm, mentally ill etc. to speak for them. The Liberals shut down the Advocacy Program taking effect a year ago so no one but those affected would notice. You need those same attorneys to manage the Pharmacare program, again impacting on seniors and the mentally who usually already have a confusing array of meds to manage in the first place. We are shocked at record fatalities with fentynal, but no one is counting the people who die from issues over meds or being able to get what they need..

We can only hope minority status will wake them the **** up.

One good thing: Sam Sullivan is out of a job! Congratulations milenials in Vancouver-False Creek
 
Three decades ago. Different times, and most of the working political press was aware of it when I arrived. It was a result of my investigation that Dave Barrett eventually came forward with his story of a "brown bag of cash".
Even then he lied.

But at the same time I arrived in the middle of letter-gate and "Gracie's Finger", so there were no white hats....compared to Quebec it was tame, near boring. Compared to Regina it was Watergate North.

Canadians get the government they deserve and since we don't pay ANY attention till it's over, we get off again and on again corruption. I didn't find the current brand of Liberals all that corrupt, again it was more 'talking point". However they were incompetent. NOTHING runs smoothly and takes twice as many people to run it in this province, and where we have had some great success with cool programs they've rolled so much back to balance the budget there isn't much there.

You need a Barrister of the first rank to deal with the bureaucracy, which means the elderly, infirm, mentally ill etc. to speak for them. The Liberals shut down the Advocacy Program taking effect a year ago so no one but those affected would notice. You need those same attorneys to manage the Pharmacare program, again impacting on seniors and the mentally who usually already have a confusing array of meds to manage in the first place. We are shocked at record fatalities with fentynal, but no one is counting the people who die from issues over meds or being able to get what they need..

We can only hope minority status will wake them the **** up.

One good thing: Sam Sullivan is out of a job! Congratulations milenials in Vancouver-False Creek

Not so different and not to be dismissed so lightly. But then you did say you worked for some political party so I guess spin comes naturally. There never are any "white hats". All political parties are corrupt.
 
Not so different and not to be dismissed so lightly. But then you did say you worked for some political party so I guess spin comes naturally. There never are any "white hats". All political parties are corrupt.


I did not ever work for a political party, I worked for a man who has been a friend and associate for many years and who caught my respect through work with addicts and alcoholics. We lost to Sam Sullivan, a Harper Conservative who has been against street-based recovery programs like In-Site. And yes, it now appears he won and it looks like the Liberals will get their 44 seats
 
I did not ever work for a political party, I worked for a man who has been a friend and associate for many years and who caught my respect through work with addicts and alcoholics. We lost to Sam Sullivan, a Harper Conservative who has been against street-based recovery programs like In-Site. And yes, it now appears he won and it looks like the Liberals will get their 44 seats

Well, your "man" was representing a political party, Vision I expect, which itself has nothing to be proud about. Too bad Sam made it through, sleazy little crumb.
 
I have covered elections in BC dating back to '78, from Social Credit to Bill Vander Zalm to the NDP and Clark, the other one. I worked for a Liberal candidate last time. Sam Sullivan the former Mayor [one term] of Vancouver is my Liberal Candidate and I don't need to explain why I won't vote for that right-wing fascist who wants to put addicts in jail for being addicts. The riding will go Liberal in any event. I have seen nothing of an NDP candidate and the Green Candidate is gonzo, doesn't make sense and seems to be stunned he's even in the race.

For the first time in more than 30 years I am detached, uncaring and probably won't listen for the results. I consider voting like making a purchase, if there's nothing of value I don't buy.

The Liberals under Clark are old and stale, she is stale; unfortunately for her the LNG thing didn't happen; but then the other side of the aisle still has some crazies in it who we know will go ahead make nuclear weapons illegal in BC and build a new ferry fleet out of aluminum beer cans. John Horgan has the leadership charisma of road kill, no experience for the job and like Mike Harcourt is too nice a guy and will get stabbed in the back just like Harcourt.

Yes, Christy is in trouble, but the NDP is still stuck in the same time warp, they have to oppose resource development or lose the eco vote to the Greens, while at the same time keep the unions who fund them happy somehow by not building pipelines. We just know there is a mega-project in there to cure all the ills of the province

They should've promised the construction of a fleet of high speed ferry boats to the Island from Horseshoe bay, that would be built only in Vancouver Shipyards.....
 
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I did not ever work for a political party, I worked for a man who has been a friend and associate for many years and who caught my respect through work with addicts and alcoholics. We lost to Sam Sullivan, a Harper Conservative who has been against street-based recovery programs like In-Site. And yes, it now appears he won and it looks like the Liberals will get their 44 seats

Yeah let's talk In-site, why don't you compare your heroin overdose numbers in Vancouver metro to any similar size metro in the US and get back, what was it last year? 945 OD deaths? you have 120 just last month, that's half as many as the nearest metro to me has in a year. Some recovery you got going there....
 
I liked the result so far. I thought going in that the best possible scenario was a Liberal minority with the Greens holding the balance but didn't think it could happen. I don't know much about Weaver so I'll have to take your word for his character but I thought it would be a good thing for Clark to need the approval of somebody, since she hasn't had to work for much for so long. And the NDP, well, their natural role is opposition.
I'll be a little surprised if this situation stays, though, for much the same reasons you mentioned. Something tells me, too, that if, after the dust has settled, the NDP ends up with a minority gov't, the Greens would bring them down on the first vote. Unless Horgan suckholes like a bastard to them.

I'm not sure a Green-Liberal coalition works, hasn't most of the liberal platform been on industrial and resource development and creating jobs through a business friendly climate?
Although I also don't know much about the BC green party, but it seems to me they would want to oppose all the various developments in the region, like the Squamish export terminal, and the pipeline to Alberta, etc. Then there's the idea the NDP and Greens share of "proportional voting" scheme which the Liberals likely would not benefit from.
 
I'm not sure a Green-Liberal coalition works, hasn't most of the liberal platform been on industrial and resource development and creating jobs through a business friendly climate?
Although I also don't know much about the BC green party, but it seems to me they would want to oppose all the various developments in the region, like the Squamish export terminal, and the pipeline to Alberta, etc. Then there's the idea the NDP and Greens share of "proportional voting" scheme which the Liberals likely would not benefit from.

Proportional voting is a scheme dreamed up by the rump parties to try and get more of their people at the trough. It would not benefit the Libs at all, but they would likely still form government more often than the Socialists.

Bearing in mind the "Liberals" here are a mix of Liberals and Conservatives for the most part. The people who realize free enterprise is what keeps the wheels of the economy well oiled.

Unlike the NDP the founding party of which had this remarkable statement in it's Regina Manifesto: " No C.C.F. Government will rest content until it has eradicated capitalism and Put into operation the full programme of socialized planning which will lead to the establishment in Canada of the Cooperative Commonwealth." One need only listen to NDP rants about big business today to realize that, while that paragraph can no longer be found in the Winnipeg Manifesto, (Socialists just love their manifestos don't they?) the basic thrust of the CCF's intent remains at the heart of the NDP today.
 
Yeah let's talk In-site, why don't you compare your heroin overdose numbers in Vancouver metro to any similar size metro in the US and get back, what was it last year? 945 OD deaths? you have 120 just last month, that's half as many as the nearest metro to me has in a year. Some recovery you got going there....


I see your hostility hasn't changed, nor has your accuracy rate.

Vancouver's heroin problem is quite small. That's OK most people totally ignorant of drug abuse think heroin is the worst. Cigarettes are.

No, last year we have 904 [I like how you exaggerate too] users die as a result of an over the counter drug called fentanyl.

But why don't you compare drug abuse deaths with Vancouver? And then maybe look at what we have done so far, and what we are doing and compare that with ANY city. Maybe look at all drug overdoses and compare with say, San Diego its about the same size and a port.

Then add gun deaths.

You can stop hating Canada....we understand, living in Seattle and all.
 
I see your hostility hasn't changed, nor has your accuracy rate.

Vancouver's heroin problem is quite small. That's OK most people totally ignorant of drug abuse think heroin is the worst. Cigarettes are.

No, last year we have 904 [I like how you exaggerate too] users die as a result of an over the counter drug called fentanyl.

But why don't you compare drug abuse deaths with Vancouver? And then maybe look at what we have done so far, and what we are doing and compare that with ANY city. Maybe look at all drug overdoses and compare with say, San Diego its about the same size and a port.

Then add gun deaths.

You can stop hating Canada....we understand, living in Seattle and all.

922 dead in 2016 according to the CBC. Well on the way to surpassing that number this year http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...th-investigation/statistical/illicit-drug.pdf.

Some of these addicts are given the antidote as many as 7 times the same day! Seems to me three strikes and you're out would relieve the strain on EMS staff and equipment and quickly eliminate a major part of the problem.
 
922 dead in 2016 according to the CBC. Well on the way to surpassing that number this year http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...th-investigation/statistical/illicit-drug.pdf.

Some of these addicts are given the antidote as many as 7 times the same day! Seems to me three strikes and you're out would relieve the strain on EMS staff and equipment and quickly eliminate a major part of the problem.


I suggest you read all of that Coroner's service report. Your ignorance of the problem is profound.

The largest insult of your post is being astonished that sometimes they have to be revived several times. It shows a shallow, judgemental attitude toward a disease sweeping through our culture; you seem to want to blame the addict like the 1920's

In closing, this conversation originated about "Insight" the harm reduction program a Canadian hater poster who used Fentanyl deaths to suggest Insight is a failure. Typical conservative ignorance and stupidity, and why I get so ****ing tired of the ignorance.

Fentanyl is a pill, sometimes a capsule. Insight is a harm reduction primarily for injection users. The only think fentanyl and heroin is they both kill.

For the record, Insight has been a huge success, it's model is now being followed in Toronto, Paris, and other European cities.
 
I see your hostility hasn't changed, nor has your accuracy rate.

Vancouver's heroin problem is quite small. That's OK most people totally ignorant of drug abuse think heroin is the worst. Cigarettes are.

No, last year we have 904 [I like how you exaggerate too] users die as a result of an over the counter drug called fentanyl.

But why don't you compare drug abuse deaths with Vancouver? And then maybe look at what we have done so far, and what we are doing and compare that with ANY city. Maybe look at all drug overdoses and compare with say, San Diego its about the same size and a port.

Then add gun deaths.

You can stop hating Canada....we understand, living in Seattle and all.

I don't know where you get that I hate Canada, I don't think criticizing a policy decision of a city government equates to hatred of an entire country. If that's the standard I really hate the United States, based on Seattle and all
 
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