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GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

i think quotas and affirmative action are just as racist. "oh don't worry black, we dumbed down teh standards for you"... If I was black I'd be highly offended of being viewed that way.

Umm...affirmative action doesn't "dumb down" the standards. Affirmative action takes two equally qualified people and chooses the minority over the white person....
 
When did Obama call someone whitey or cracker? Oh jeez. Let me ask you again: where did he call one race superior to another? Let me ask you another question: do you believe that one's racial identity and appearance help to shape one's prejudices towards race?

I'm sick of hearing about people's "racial identity" We are Americans.
I didn't say he called anyone whitey or cracker. He called his grandmother a "typical white person" You might not find that insulting or racist, but I do. I also found his comment about the cops acting stupidly, as racist, since he admitted he didn't have the facts. He has done more to divide the races than any other president with his comments.
 
What happened to the thread in breaking news? Where's my post saying Obama deserved it? I was like the 3rd post.
 
Umm...affirmative action doesn't "dumb down" the standards. Affirmative action takes two equally qualified people and chooses the minority over the white person....

It doesn't ahve to od that either. The law actually requires that the hiring institution show NO favortism based on race, religion or gender. Only a court can order a business take a minortity, if they were too greivious in their prejudicial hiring practices.

The courts did allow a small point award to a minority, but recent rulings ahve lower if not eliminated even that. Which is why there have not been any major gains for minorties or major loses for white males. It is largely a perception thing, often a misperception.
 
Affirmative action takes two equally qualified people and chooses the minority over the white person....

And anyone who supports that is racist.
 
I'm sick of hearing about people's "racial identity" We are Americans.
Reality doesn't respond to what your "sick of". People have racial identities and people treat each other differently because of their race. Let's just acknowledge reality instead of pretending like it doesn't exist.

I didn't say he called anyone whitey or cracker. He called his grandmother a "typical white person" You might not find that insulting or racist, but I do. I also found his comment about the cops acting stupidly, as racist, since he admitted he didn't have the facts. He has done more to divide the races than any other president with his comments.
1. There isn't any evidence of racism in his comment.
2. I find it funny that now you're all gung ho about "dividing races" when you just said you're tired of all this "racial identity" stuff.
3. He hasn't divided races - he has pissed off racists who realize their racists, racists who don't realize their racists, conservatives who aren't racists but just disagree with his policies and liberals who aren't racists but want him to be more liberal. If you think he has divided races, then you likely have your own racial issues because a lot of white people are doing just fine.
 
And anyone who supports that is racist.

Not really, because racism assumes superiority. Affirmative action does not assume that the black person is "better" or even "worse" than the white person, it assumes that blacks are underrepresented and that representation of all races needs to be equalized. It's based on a recognition that diversity is lacking. Nonetheless, affirmative action benefits white women the most, so it's not particularly racist. It's actually a pretty efficient way of deciding between two equal candidates.
 
What is being ingored in the discussion but is also manifestly being demonstrated by this discussion is that there exists in American politics a very intentional and deliberate strategy on the part of the right wing to remove the topic of RACISM and any subsequent discussion of RACISM from the table. This is being done as a tactic of self preservation for the right wing itself. The word has gone out for some time now to right wingers all across the land spread by conservative and libertarian think tanks, spokespersons and office holders. Here is but one example but a prominent one

Articles & Commentary

The idea on its face is that 'conservatism is not the same as racism". And indeed, that can be true in some instances. But what is also true is that American conservatives have historically lined up on the opposite side of the Civil Rights community - African Americans and other minorities - in opposition to policies that they advocate.

The word has gone out to conservatives, libertarians and others on the right side of these issues that you need to effectively neutralize the strong stigma of the charge of racism because it prevents those on the right from saying what they want to really say about many issues near and dear to them.

We see that right here where the usual suspects feel it necessary to attack Democrats from past history (FDR in the Thirties) when current Republican transgressions (the Obama chimp parent picture) are being discussed.
We see it when some here attempt to get off the defensive and go on the offensive changing the subject from the sins of the right (racism and discrimination) to the policies favored by the left (affirmative action).

It is important to see this for what it really is. This is merely a tactic in a war of ideology. Its goal is to remove the charge of racism from our society in order to provide a clear and unobstructed path for the right to pursue their more nefarious goals of repealing much of the progressive reform of the 20th century.
 
What is being ingored in the discussion but is also manifestly being demonstrated by this discussion is that there exists in American politics a very intentional and deliberate strategy on the part of the right wing to remove the topic of RACISM and any subsequent discussion of RACISM from the table. This is being done as a tactic of self preservation for the right wing itself. The word has gone out for some time now to right wingers all across the land spread by conservative and libertarian think tanks, spokespersons and office holders. Here is but one example but a prominent one



that's asinine, what the the right doesn't want is the constant of loud mouths calling them racists at every turn.
 
Haymarket, American history is filled with a ton of such examples on the American left. I am tired of my fellow more liberal citizens continuing to rely upon this talking point to stop ideas.
 
Which implicates both parties. Republicans under Nixon had actually heavily developed the quota enforcement during the 1970s.

And quotas were deemed illegal in 1978. A little reading;

An employer or a school takes affirmative action when it puts in place programs, plans, and efforts designed to ensure that people who belong to minority groups receive equal opportunity and fair treatment and are not subject to discrimination.

(snip)

During the late 1960s and the early 1970s, many educational institutions used minority quota systems that provided for specified numbers of minority students. In 1978, the United States Supreme Court ruled that such racial quotas were illegal.

Affirmative Action - Lawyers.com

There has been much confusion and often msireadings. Some giving of credit was allowed, but often found to be too abitrary and then disallowed. The best way to meet AA requirements is to show you don't consider race at all.
 
And quotas were deemed illegal in 1978. A little reading;

An employer or a school takes affirmative action when it puts in place programs, plans, and efforts designed to ensure that people who belong to minority groups receive equal opportunity and fair treatment and are not subject to discrimination.

(snip)

During the late 1960s and the early 1970s, many educational institutions used minority quota systems that provided for specified numbers of minority students. In 1978, the United States Supreme Court ruled that such racial quotas were illegal.

Affirmative Action - Lawyers.com

There has been much confusion and often msireadings. Some giving of credit was allowed, but often found to be too abitrary and then disallowed. The best way to meet AA requirements is to show you don't consider race at all.

I agree with you, but this is not quite what I was saying.
 
that's asinine, what the the right doesn't want is the constant of loud mouths calling them racists at every turn.

The most dangerous enemy who must be stopped is not the one who merely stand up and opposes the ideas of the far right, but the one who stands up and exposes the tactics and strategies of the far right. Exposing who is behind the curtain and their devices and schemes is much worse than merely scoffing at the lunacy.
 
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What is being ingored in the discussion but is also manifestly being demonstrated by this discussion is that there exists in American politics a very intentional and deliberate strategy on the part of the right wing to remove the topic of RACISM and any subsequent discussion of RACISM from the table. This is being done as a tactic of self preservation for the right wing itself. The word has gone out for some time now to right wingers all across the land spread by conservative and libertarian think tanks, spokespersons and office holders. Here is but one example but a prominent one

....

It is important to see this for what it really is. This is merely a tactic in a war of ideology. Its goal is to remove the charge of racism from our society in order to provide a clear and unobstructed path for the right to pursue their more nefarious goals of repealing much of the progressive reform of the 20th century.

I agree with you to a certain extent. There is definitely a huge push from the right to just not acknowledge race and racism and to call every accusation of racism against blacks "pulling the race card" while jumping on the opportunity to call Obama a racist against whites. (i.e. many in the right refuse to acknowledge black racism but love to talk about white racism).

I do think the higher-ups in the party use this as strategy to get rid of the "Republicans are racist" stereotype. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked on me because I'll still talk about race and racism whenever I think it's an issue.
 
i don't know, barb, i guess that's up to you. what do you think about what the subject of the post did?

What do I think about a politician, no one has ever heard of, sending an off color cartoon in an E-mail? I think she should have used a little common sense and just deleted it. Not really newsworthy and makes me wonder about who reported it and why.
 
Umm...affirmative action doesn't "dumb down" the standards. Affirmative action takes two equally qualified people and chooses the minority over the white person....

Really?

Judge Sonia Sotomayor once described herself as “a product of affirmative action” who was admitted to two Ivy League schools despite scoring lower on standardized tests than many classmates, which she attributed to “cultural biases” that are “built into testing.”
Sotomayor –
 

I love that comment because I went to a top 10 school as well and several of my white peers didn't do too well on the standardized tests either. There were two different factors at play: 1. Some of them were legacies. 2. Colleges, good colleges, look at more than standardized test scores, particularly when the applicant shines in other areas. Perhaps, both you and Ms. Sotomayor just don't know that.
 
Reality doesn't respond to what your "sick of". People have racial identities and people treat each other differently because of their race. Let's just acknowledge reality instead of pretending like it doesn't exist.


1. There isn't any evidence of racism in his comment.
2. I find it funny that now you're all gung ho about "dividing races" when you just said you're tired of all this "racial identity" stuff.
3. He hasn't divided races - he has pissed off racists who realize their racists, racists who don't realize their racists, conservatives who aren't racists but just disagree with his policies and liberals who aren't racists but want him to be more liberal. If you think he has divided races, then you likely have your own racial issues because a lot of white people are doing just fine.

What you define as reality, is NOT reality, race is not a reality... it has become a negative aspect of our culture. People groups races in these ways due to significant historical events and culture, not because it's "natural" or "real". I have "black" friends that are "whiter" then i am, and has no identity in this racial culture except for whats forced upon them. If we erased the racial policy's in our government and culture the cultural prejudice will go away too, and that is the best way to do it. It's not "pretending" it's not there; it's acknowledging such distinctions as uncivilized and are based on contradictory facts.
 
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What you define as reality, is NOT reality, race is not a reality... it has become a negative aspect of our culture.
You say "race is not a reality" and then you say "it [race] has become a negative aspect". How it simultaneously be and not be. Explain.

People groups races in these ways due to significant historical events and culture, not because it's "natural" or "real". I have "black" friends that are "whiter" then i am, and has no identity in this racial culture except for whats forced upon them. If we erased the racial policy's in our government and culture the cultural prejudice will go away too, and that is the best way to do it. It's not "pretending" it's not there; it's acknowledging such distinctions as uncivilized and are based on contradictory facts.
Race is definitely real...AS AN IDEA. Ideas are "real" too you know. So yes, it's ridiculous to not acknowledge the REALITY, the IDEA. Race exists because people continue to invoke it in their thoughts, words and actions. And the idea that cultural prejudice and racial culture would go away if the government stopped talking about it is absolutely ridiculous. Racism stops when people of different races grow up together and interact with one another, when people acknowledge racism in themselves and in others.

Furthermore, if you think you're educating me on the social construction of race, you're not. I'm pretty sure my mother taught me that when I was five.
 
What do I think about a politician, no one has ever heard of, sending an off color cartoon in an E-mail? I think she should have used a little common sense and just deleted it. Not really newsworthy and makes me wonder about who reported it and why.

fair enough.
 
The most dangerous enemy who must be stopped is not the one who merely stand up and opposes the ideas of the far right, but the one who stands up and exposes the tactics and strategies of the far right. Exposing who is behind the curtain and their devices and schemes is much worse than merely scoffing at the lunacy.



What in the sam hill are you babbling about? :lamo
 
You say "race is not a reality" and then you say "it [race] has become a negative aspect". How it simultaneously be and not be. Explain.
Easy, race is not a reality... and the second statement is using the term "race" in which culture thinks it is, and this misconception of "race" IS a negative aspect of our culture.

Race is definitely real...AS AN IDEA. Ideas are "real" too you know. So yes, it's ridiculous to not acknowledge the REALITY, the IDEA. Race exists because people continue to invoke it in their thoughts, words and actions. And the idea that cultural prejudice and racial culture would go away if the government stopped talking about it is absolutely ridiculous. Racism stops when people of different races grow up together and interact with one another, when people acknowledge racism in themselves and in others.

Furthermore, if you think you're educating me on the social construction of race, you're not. I'm pretty sure my mother taught me that when I was five.
"Ideas are real too"... ? An idea is just and idea, reality cannot and is not based on just an idea... is this case, the "idea" of "race" has been proven incorrect on scientific and moral basis.

Like many, you seem to be confusing between culture and "race"... "race" is genetic, and culture is NOT necessarily so unless it is racially based(which is racist), even the racially based cultures do not have all the members of there "race" participating in it...not by a long shot, so you can't assume a "race" exists due to its culture identity.

"And the idea that cultural prejudice and racial culture would go away if the government stopped talking about it is absolutely ridiculous."
I think this comment was absolutely ridiculous... first off i did not word it in that way and you are assuming things i did not necessarily say, but regardless ill play along. Look at how much the racial divide has changed in just the last 40 years? it has changed drastically all because of government rules on discrimination. If the government would stop treating the american people as if they were divided by race, then racial culture will again drastically change. We are reminded almost on every government form of our "race". All you are trying to do is stop the american culture from meshing together, and it will eventually... and due to globalization much of the world will too.

You cannot believe in equality of all humanity and recognize race... it's just does not make sense
 
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You say "race is not a reality" and then you say "it [race] has become a negative aspect". How it simultaneously be and not be. Explain.


Race is definitely real...AS AN IDEA. Ideas are "real" too you know. So yes, it's ridiculous to not acknowledge the REALITY, the IDEA. Race exists because people continue to invoke it in their thoughts, words and actions. And the idea that cultural prejudice and racial culture would go away if the government stopped talking about it is absolutely ridiculous. Racism stops when people of different races grow up together and interact with one another, when people acknowledge racism in themselves and in others.

Furthermore, if you think you're educating me on the social construction of race, you're not. I'm pretty sure my mother taught me that when I was five.

Mathews is obsessed with race, and in my opinion, he is your typical liberal. :)
Chris Matthews on Obama State of the Union address: 'I forgot he was black' (video)

Analyzing Obama's State of the Union address, he called the President "post-racial" before saying, "I forgot he was black tonight for an hour. He’s gone a long way to become a leader of this country and past so much history in just a year or two. I mean it’s something we don’t even think about.

Question for conservatives. When listening to Obama spew his rhetoric are you thinking about his skin color?
Here's Mathews admitting that is what he thinks about, well, except for that hour where he "forgot":roll:

Not sure I'd go as far as calling that racist, but it sure is an obsession with the color of a persons skin.
 
A 73yo woman knows how to send an email? I'm not buying this.....this is fishy from the get-go.
 
Easy, race is not a reality... and the second statement is using the term "race" in which culture thinks it is, and this misconception of "race" IS a negative aspect of our culture.
The fact that we're talking about it means that it is a reality.

celticwar17 said:
"Ideas are real too"... ? An idea is just and idea, reality cannot and is not based on just an idea... is this case, the "idea" of "race" has been proven incorrect on scientific and moral basis.
Reality is that which exists. Ideas exist...in our minds. For example, a lie is real, but what the lie says exists, however, is not real. For example again, the idea of a unicorn is real, but unicorns are not. Ideas are real.

celticwar17 said:
Like many, you seem to be confusing between culture and "race"... "race" is genetic, and culture is NOT necessarily so unless it is racially based(which is racist)
1. If race is genetic, how it is not real?
2. I'm not confused. Race describes the divisions of human beings into groups sharing certain somewhat arbitrary physical characteristics. Culture describes the pattern of living within a particular society or population. Both are created by human beings - race is created by attributing meaning to physical features and culture is created by living together. Both influence each other.
3. I think you're confused.

celticwar17 said:
even the racially based cultures do not have all the members of there "race" participating in it...not by a long shot, so you can't assume a "race" exists due to its culture identity
Again, you think you're educating me, but you're not. I also never said anything about "race existing due to cultural identity" so I don't even know what you're talking about.

celticwar17 said:
"And the idea that cultural prejudice and racial culture would go away if the government stopped talking about it is absolutely ridiculous."I think this comment was absolutely ridiculous... first off i did not word it in that way
Pretty much:
If we erased the racial policy's in our government and culture the cultural prejudice will go away too.


celticwar17 said:
and you are assuming things i did not necessarily say, but regardless ill play along. Look at how much the racial divide has changed in just the last 40 years? it has changed drastically all because of government rules on discrimination. If the government would stop treating the american people as if they were divided by race, then racial culture will again drastically change. We are reminded almost on every government form of our "race".
Actually the racial divide has gotten better as evidence by...everything.

You cannot believe in equality of all humanity and recognize race... it's just does not make sense
Umm...yes you can. Let me show you: "there are many different races that human beings recognize and all of them are equal because physical characteristics are insignificant".

celticwar17 said:
All you are trying to do is stop the american culture from meshing together.
Umm...no. But thanks for playing.
 
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