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Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

Marshabar said:
Are you kidding? We bow to the tender sensibilities of Muslim here as well as there. CAIR sends envoys to train our FBI and police how to respect Muslims at the same time they encourage Muslims to stone wall law enforcement. They are hypocrites.
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No I'm not kidding. It's reasonable to respect people when you are on their territory - morally and practically.
 
theplaydrive said:
No I'm not kidding. It's reasonable to respect people when you are on their territory - morally and practically.
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Unless they happen to be women ;)
 
Marshabar said:
If the commanders on the ground over there are following the same protocol that got the Fort Hood soldiers killed by Major Hasan, they don't know much.
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Mind detailing, comprehensively, what exact protocol caused those soldiers to be killed in Ft. Hood?
 
Marshabar said:
Are you kidding? We bow to the tender sensibilities of Muslim here as well as there. CAIR sends envoys to train our FBI and police how to respect Muslims at the same time they encourage Muslims to stone wall law enforcement. They are hypocrites.

What do you think got those soldiers killed at Ft. Hood? They weren't sufficiently respectful to Major Hasan?
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We're trying to create a pro-western democracy in a stone-age part of the world. You don't do that by pissin on their cultural norms.
 
Amazed said:
Female U.S. soldiers are being “encouraged” to wear headscarves in Afghanistan in an effort to get closer to the locals, according to The Daily Caller.

Major Kyndra Rotunda, the executive director of the Military Law and Policy Institute, says that being “encouraged” to do something in the military is tantamount to being “ordered” to do it, putting the servicewomen in a touchy situation.


Sensitivity Training? Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab | The Blaze

You know what you "sensitive" Muslims, kiss my lily white a**.
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When in Rome, do as the Romans. (To an extent)
 
Marshabar said:
If the commanders on the ground over there are following the same protocol that got the Fort Hood soldiers killed by Major Hasan, they don't know much.
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Sorry Marsha, I'm not sure what wearing headscarves in Afghanistan has anything to do with Fort Hood and Major Hasan.
 
Amazed said:
We are fighting a war, I don't give a rats a** about Muslim "senstivities".
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That's not even half of it. If we were just fighting a war, we would be killing nonstop in Afghanistan. What we are doing is creating a future for the country, and destroying the source of terrorism, which is ignorance. Everyone fighting against this is to a greater or lesser extent ignorant, even on our side.
 
mac said:
We're trying to create a pro-western democracy in a stone-age part of the world. You don't do that.
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Edited for accuracy.
 
Our goal, there, is to rid their country of the 'bad people' and to help create an environment that the 'good' people can thrive in.

Because of centuries of cultural values - they believe that women should be covered. Men support, further and encourage this - so do women. Not all - not all men, not all women. But enough for it to be 'the norm.'

that's not saying the women LIKE it or AGREE with it - but in order to provide more help (since that's what we're all about) to them then I don't see the *harm* in wearing such as long as it's a personal *choice* - which it is.

Feminism as we know it is NOT a simple thing - our own country had to go through a lot of changes to make it accepted and there are still many issues concerning how women are thought of and treated in our own country.

Look around - we are still a heavily gendered society in the US. How is a woman who wears a suit and tie treated and accepted? Some of this will never change. To ignore that it's there or brush it off completely is to make small plight over what is a very big deal to women in such cultures.

Cultural-awareness is part of the training that soldiers are given. Men are instructed how to ideally behave as well - not just women. I'ts not *required* of anyone to follow advise - but it wouldn't hurt sometimes for individuals to try to connect with the people that we are helping.

A large part of our problem in this area within Iraq WAS because of our cultural differences - our soldiers would deliver food and water to small villages and it would never be accepted out of a fear and sense of alienation and fear. If we're going to *help* - we need to help.

But am I going to hold it against women for not wanting to wear it? No.

But there's no sense in getting twisted out of shape.
 
On an ethical level, it pisses me off to ask anyone to kowtow to sexist bull**** like muffling women up. However, our "goal" in Afghanistan requires it. If you really want to play the nation building game, these are the kinds of moves you have to make.
 
Marshabar said:
Go read the report, it's pretty damned damning. And very much ignored.

You can find it here: Senate report on Fort Hood massacre critical of FBI, Army | wfaa.com | Home Page
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Ouch! That whole thing stung
The enemy — Islamist extremists — must be labeled correctly and explicitly, the report said, in order for the military to counter the extremism.
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I'm trying to find an accessible pdf of the report - but eveyr link I've tried so far is unavailable or 404
 
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repeter said:
How does this relate to Islamic culture? Your link explained how the military failed to connect the dots, not that they were trying to adapt Muslim culture into our military, and it backfired or something.
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I guess you'd have to read the thread to understand the post.
 
rathi said:
On an ethical level, it pisses me off to ask anyone to kowtow to sexist bull**** like muffling women up. However, our "goal" in Afghanistan requires it. If you really want to play the nation building game, these are the kinds of moves you have to make.
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No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
 
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X Factor said:
No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
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There's a lot more to this than 'feminism / sexism' issues.
I don't understand *why* you can't *understand* that.

If something is a barrier to progressing forward then you have two options.

1) break down the barrier and charge over it's shattered remains
2) go around the barrier.

If just ONE female soldier wears a hajib and gets AROND some stupid patriarchal barrier so she can help a mother and her children get food or seek medical asssistance then I'd say it's worth it.

How can you gain trust and help if they're so hung up on things like this? When it comes ot two people being at an impass the one who is more flexible and goes the extra mile ot make a connection is going to have more success persuading the other party to be more accepting and considerate of input.

Until we gain their trust and can continue ot improve relations and understandings between our cultures we will NOT be able ot make the necessary steps to break down the barrier - no matter how sexist people think it is.
 
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Marshabar said:
I guess you'd have to read the thread to understand the post.
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I've read the thread, and its not relevant. The issue is integrating Islamic culture into the military, specifically the use of a Hijab for female soldiers in Afghanistan. Major Hasan's attack at Ft. Hood is a completely different issue.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
There's a lot more to this than 'feminism / sexism' issues.
I don't understand *why* you can't *understand* that.
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It's not that I don't understand that, I just find it interesting which principles people are willing to compromise. I'm going to use an argument I hear all the time in the abortion debate, if it were the guys who wore the hijab, would we expect our military men to do it?
 
X Factor said:
No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
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so just to clarify, you're annoyed at the commanders who might be encouraging the females to wear this right?
 
X Factor said:
It's not that I don't understand that, I just find it interesting which principles people are willing to compromise. I'm going to use an argument I hear all the time in the abortion debate, if it were the guys who wore the hijab, would we expect our military men to do it?
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When the helper's principles are being over-ridden by the helpees principles, fears and rules - then the one who has the most freedom to change and flex should be the one to change and flex.

They're not asking that people *believe* this or *support* that - they're just saying that "it might help us on our path to helping them"

There aren't just rules concerning the clothing of women who are natives of the country which ONLY affect those women - those same women are also expected ot avoid interacting with *anyone* who violates those rules - foreigner, guest or not. If wearing a hajib for a while would get someone in a door so they *can* actually help then I see that as a good thing.

If the gender roles were reversed it would be the exact same situation.
 
Serenity said:
so just to clarify, you're annoyed at the commanders who might be encouraging the females to wear this right?
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Yes. Did you read the whole article? In some cases they're being "encouraged" to wear these instead of their helmets, whereas the men get to keep their helmets on.

“Nobody is saying, ‘Okay as we head out onto this dangerous street, you wear a hijab instead of your kevlar helmet,’” Lawhorn said. “As women are on some of these engagement teams and they are going to go into places where are going to predominantly be dealing with other women, like giving them medical information or finding out their concerns are in the local community. Local commanders are encouraging them — not demanding, but encouraging — if they feel more comfortable — ‘Feel free to wear a headscarf.’”

Rotunda remained unconvinced, telling TheDC that helmets are always the preferred head wear among soldiers.
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Aunt Spiker said:
When the helper's principles are being over-ridden by the helpees principles, fears and rules - then the one who has the most freedom to change and flex should be the one to change and flex.

They're not asking that people *believe* this or *support* that - they're just saying that "it might help us on our path to helping them"

There aren't just rules concerning the clothing of women who are natives of the country which ONLY affect those women - those same women are also expected ot avoid interacting with *anyone* who violates those rules - foreigner, guest or not. If wearing a hajib for a while would get someone in a door so they *can* actually help then I see that as a good thing.

If the gender roles were reversed it would be the exact same situation.
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Well hell, why not do away with all military uniforms and weapons? I'm sure the locals would be a lot more comfortable if none of our soldiers had either of those things.
 
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