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CNN Poll: Unfavorable view of tea party on the rise

Taylor said:
I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Are you claiming the methodology was sound? Why do you consider the issue I raised to only be a "possible" problem?
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Because at the time that post (your post) was made, you still have not elaborated on how the methodology in this particular case was flawed, you only made general claims about methodological flaws.

  1. My "attack" on Nate was not an ad hominem. It was an insult and nothing more -- it never entered my line of reasoning.
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Maybe it wasn't part of your "line of reasoning". But when you drop "Did I mention he's a hack?" in the middle of your arguement, do you expect a reasonable person to believe that it wasn't part of your arguement?


  • Uhh... yeah, both illustrations of why propositions are typically defined as statements that can be true or false. :prof
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If they were phrased as "propositions", which they weren't.

I mean, if you don't even know what a proposition is -- one of the most basic concepts in logic -- I can't see why anyone would seriously consider anything you have to say on the subject of fallacies.

Now THAT'S an ad hominem!:cool:
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Ad Hominem and false assumption. Next week you can start your lesson with Professor Tucker.


(and here's to hoping it comes across in the good-natured sort-of-way I intended -- note the smilies)

----

Hope to get to the rest tonight and before I leave for a four day trip to MiddleofKnowhere, Utah.
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It has. I do enjoy debate with people with some wit and aren't too overly serious.
 
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nonpareil said:
Next "set" of what? You wrongly accuse me of something, if you don't have the decency to admit to it, at least don't act as if you are in the right.
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I thought you didnt take this so serious? U mad? :ssst:


Do you really need to be "shown" the fact that the GOP (which the Tea Party is an extreme wing of) has taken actions that include going after the unions, gerrymandering (in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and more) and has asked for the Bush tax cuts to be continued (which includes cuts and credit for corporations) and that some GOP governor has instituted tax cuts despite claims of budget constrain too?


I find it telling that you fail to grasp the main arguement I made which is that political rhetoric is just that - political rhetoric, it's the details of the proposal that is the problem and lead to disagreement. Democrats and Republicans often want the same thing, they just have different ideas of how to get it done and the priority with which they give it. As a result what you see as "competitive business environment" Democrats see as "tax cut for corporations and the rich". What Democrats see as "better access to education", you see as "student welfare". But of course you couldn't take off your partisanship long enough to understand that.
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i need to be shown that the "tea party is the extreme right wing of the republican party". Its lies like these that Hamper actual debate.

You made a silly leap either based on ignorance or wilful lying because your point was asinine.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I thought you didnt take this so serious? U mad? :ssst:
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I'm not mad. I don't care about you enough to get that worked up. There are times to take things seriously or times not to. When people wrongly accuse me of something, I do take it seriously. So are you going to answer the question?




i need to be shown that the "tea party is the extreme right wing of the republican party". Its lies like these that Hamper actual debate.

You made a silly leap either based on ignorance or wilful lying because your point was asinine.
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I make no leap. The Tea Party is an extreme wing of the GOP, it's where it's got its start. Are you denying that the people who support the Tea Party were supporters of the GOP if they have no one else more right-wing than the GOP candidate to vote for?

I didn't lie about anything, so you just pulled that out of your ass. It's the kind of partisanship and hypocrisy you display that hampers debate. Weren't you the one who said:

ReverendHellh0und said:
So lets pretend this is ALL true and not part of the democrat hit machine obama re-election need an enemy mission...

Are you saying folks no longer want smaller government, more accountable reps, reduced spending, and lower taxes? I don't think so, call it the Tea party or whatever, its the ideals of the tea party folks want, not so much a tea "P"arty.


This is who we are.
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So a distinct Tea Party is suddenly important now? Are you denying that the Republican platform is about "smaller government, more accountable reps, reduced spending, and lower taxes" and all that rhetorical crap?
 
from the Rev

i need to be shown that the "tea party is the extreme right wing of the republican party".
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While I rarely agree with him, I do think in this one case the Rev has a valid point. Given the current ideological makeup of the GOP, showing that the tea party faction is the extreme right wing of the party would be like trying to show which of a house filled with twenty dollar ladies of the night is the most virtuous.

I really do not think its factually possible to identify the extreme right wing given the group in question.
 
megaprogman said:
There are other links showing that more than CNN has picked up on this trend.
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48% Say Their Views Closer to Tea Party Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™


The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters say when it comes to the major issues facing the country, their views are closer to the average Tea Party member as opposed to the average member of Congress. Just 22% say their views are closest to those of the average congressman. Even more (30%) aren’t sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
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This shows little change from a survey in late March of last year. Forty-nine percent (49%) of voters think the Tea Party movement is good for the country, consistent with findings since May 2010. Twenty-six percent (26%) disagree and say the grassroots, small government movement is bad for America. Sixteen percent (16%) say neither
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Forty-five percent (45%) say the average Tea Party member has a better understanding of the problems America faces today than the average member of Congress does. That figure is down seven points from a year ago. Still, today only 31% think the average member of Congress has a better understanding. Twenty-three percent (23%) are undecided.
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One-third of voters continue to have ties to the Tea Party movement. That includes 22% who say they themselves are members and 12% more who say they have friends or family who belong. Those findings haven’t budged from the end of December. Fifty-two percent (52%) say they have no links to the Tea Party, but 14% are not sure.
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Boo Radley said:
it doesn't matter. There was nothing that reseambled a death panel. Never was. Never existed. She told a lie. Period.
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Yep, you were fooled by the media about death panels (rationing so much people die).
People have always been fooled into thinking the tea Party is violent, racist, anti-government, anti-tax.
They are not violent or racist and they want limited government. They are not anti-government. They are not anti-tax, they are for low taxes for everyone.
 
megaprogman said:
And I have given you a basis for why I don't believe he was intelligent. I can't speak for other people though.



Perhaps you are right and perhaps not, but you have to prove your case before you can claim its true. Personally, I just don't know.
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Reminds me of Ed Shultz's poll last night. It was something like, "Who will be to blame if the government shuts down?" 83% said Republicans 17% said Dems.
I'd guess a Fox poll would have different numbers and Dems would be blamed.
I'd guess CNN would blame the republicans, but not quite to the extent that Ed's viewers did.
 
MaggieD said:
I'll never again give credence to any published poll unless I see the questions asked. Wordsmithing is everything. Don't see the questions they ask? Don't believe the poll.
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Why the change all of a sudden?

I would honestly like to know.
 
The vibe I am getting from some posters here is that polls are entirely OK, as long as they reinforce their own views.

Sad.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
The vibe I am getting from some posters here is that polls are entirely OK, as long as they reinforce their own views.

Sad.
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I don't take one poll, no matter what the source and take it at face value. If it's a CNN or Fox poll, that's enough to make me think it's not going to be a fair sampling of the American people in general.
 
sazerac said:
I keep hearing that theTea Party is EXTREMIST.
Of course that makes me very nervous.
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borrowing 40 cents on every dollar we spend is extreme spending.

Yet the Dems called cutting a few billion extreme cutting.

I know who I would call extreme.
 
Boo Radley said:
That's dumb. Seriously, you can't explain her lie and exaggeration that way. You're working to hard to excuse her hyperbole. Just face it, she tried to scare folks and did so dishonestly.
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As well they should be scared of rationing care especially for seniors and the disabled.
She was being honest, while our politicans were lying to us.
 
Barbbtx said:
As well they should be scared of rationing care especially for seniors and the disabled.
She was being honest, while our politicans were lying to us.
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who is going to do that, barb? should the republicans be scared that paul ryan wants to raise the medicare rates? can you afford that?
 
CNN cannot take real polls. They don't have a valid sample group. Any poll by Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, etc, are going to be inaccurate. The Tea Party will lose favor if it continues attempting to cut our elderly citizens' health coverage, though.
 
liblady said:
who is going to do that, barb? should the republicans be scared that paul ryan wants to raise the medicare rates? can you afford that?
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Ryan's bill is not going to call for drs to ration care. His plan will save medicare for future generations.
 
whysoserious said:
CNN cannot take real polls. They don't have a valid sample group. Any poll by Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, etc, are going to be inaccurate. The Tea Party will lose favor if it continues attempting to cut our elderly citizens' health coverage, though.
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The polling was random sampling, not among viewers. CNN simply paid for it.
 
whysoserious said:
CNN cannot take real polls. They don't have a valid sample group. Any poll by Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, etc, are going to be inaccurate. The Tea Party will lose favor if it continues attempting to cut our elderly citizens' health coverage, though.
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Agree with first part.
But how is the Tea Party attempting to cut elderly health coverage?
 
Barbbtx said:
Ryan's bill is not going to call for drs to ration care. His plan will save medicare for future generations.
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so, what does call for rationing care then?

ryan's plan sucks, btw, takes from the poor and middle class and gives to the rich, very simply.
 
megaprogman said:
The polling was random sampling, not among viewers. CNN simply paid for it.
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If true, then that is different. However, from what I've read, those who have a favorable opinion is pretty much unchanged. I'll get worried if those numbers change considerably.
 
Whovian said:
Your comments show your typical poor understanding of the issues.
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Quite to the contrary. Liblady hit it out of the park.

But I certainly applaud you keeping the to party line in the face of mounting facts and the harsh exposure of truth from the other side. Loyalty is indeed a virtue..... I think.
 
Whovian said:
Your comments show your typical poor understanding of the issues.
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let's see, essentially ryan wants to privatize medicare, and give medicaid to the states. at the same time, he gives cuts to the wealthy and the corporations. so what would you call it?

it's not ****ing rocket science, and the majority of the people in the us.s believe we should RAISE taxes on the wealthy, not give them more breaks. tell me, how did reagan's cuts and bush's cuts decrease our debt? answer: they didn't. definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. that's republicans.
 
megaprogman said:
The polling was random sampling, not among viewers. CNN simply paid for it.
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Oh I see, it wasn't a CNN poll. It was performed by Opinion Research Corporation and funded by CNN? That has a ton more legitimacy then.

Barbbtx said:
Agree with first part.
But how is the Tea Party attempting to cut elderly health coverage?
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GOP budget plan would revamp Medicare, Medicaid - Tuesday, April 5, 2011 | 7:13 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
House Republicans set up a politically defining clash over the size and priorities of government Tuesday, unveiling a budget plan that calls for both unprecedented spending cuts and a fundamental restructuring of taxpayer-financed health care for the elderly and the poor.

The plan would slash federal spending by $5 trillion or more over the coming decade. It would leave Social Security untouched but shift more of the risk from rising medical costs from the government to Medicare beneficiaries. It also calls for sharp cuts to Medicaid health care for the poor and disabled and to food aid for the poor.

Dubbed the "Path to Prosperity," the proposal by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., also calls for dramatically overhauling the complicated and inefficient U.S. tax code. It would scrap numerous tax breaks and loopholes in exchange for reducing the top income tax rate for both individuals and corporations from 35 percent to 25 percent.
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Does GOP plan for Medicare, Medicaid amount to reform or destruction? - Thursday, April 7, 2011 | 2:01 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
Consider this as well: The senior population of the United States is a more reliable voting bloc than any other segment of the population, turning out in almost twice the numbers of the youth vote, and voting more conservatively across the board than younger age brackets.
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The GOP budget stresses that the Medicare revision is not a voucher program.

But the key difference between their proposal and, for example, insurance plans under Medicare Part D or Medicare Advantage insurance plans — which are administered through private insurance companies and serve as one model for Ryan’s plan, Heck said — is that the government is the only negotiator in the current system. That gives it tremendous bargaining power.

Pull the behemoth of the government arbitrator away, and seniors would be left to fend for themselves on the open market with their annually determined subsidy; not exactly the most convincing bargaining position if you require a higher-than-average amount of medical care.
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