Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Market

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

Amazed said:

The Community Reinvestment Act (or CRA, Pub.L. 95-128, title VIII of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States federal law designed to encourage commercial banks and savings associations to help meet the needs of borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.[1][2][3] Congress passed the Act in 1977 to reduce discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods, a practice known as redlining.[4][5]

Click to expand...

The CRA, whatver its merits, was simply NOT the cause of the housing crisis. A contributor? Seems likely. But the contention that the CRA created the bubble and tanked the market is just partisan fingerpointing.

Here's in interesting article from a pair of Federal Reserve economists:

Two basic points emerge from our analysis of the available data. First, only a small portion of subprime mortgage originations is related to the CRA. Second, CRA-related loans appear to perform comparably to other types of subprime loans. Taken together, the available evidence seems to run counter to the contention that the CRA contributed in any substantive way to the current mortgage crisis.

Click to expand...

It's a complex issue. You oversimplify, then try to use that oversimplification to assign blame. It's intellecutally bankrupt.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

GhostlyJoe said:

The CRA, whatver its merits, was simply NOT the cause of the housing crisis. A contributor? Seems likely. But the contention that the CRA created the bubble and tanked the market is just partisan fingerpointing.

Here's in interesting article from a pair of Federal Reserve economists:

Click to expand...

You got that right, in my opinion. One of the reasons. Certainly not the only one, and one could argue it wasn't even the primary one. But it was the camel's nose, front feet and both humps in the tent. And it's not a partisan issue. Bush did his best to encourage lenders to loosen their credit standards toward his goal that everyone who wants a home ought to be able to own one. This isn't a Dem/Rep thingie. As usual, this is a Congress thingie.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

Mellie said:

How do you defend this?

"We need to have a very simple strategy - how to bring down the stock market, how we bring down their bonuses, how do we interfere with their ability to be rich."

Do you understand the devastation that would cause to crash the stock market?

Click to expand...

I suppose I am somewhere in the middle here. I fully believe our financial system is a corrupt system, much of its design is to make those with wealth even wealthier.

Approx 3/5ths of all the wealth in the world is based on nothing tangible, its simply a number shuffle. Wall street (generalization) is one aspect of this that helps create new methods to make money and largely create their own rules in an attempt to shuffle wealth.

Look at the mess we recently had with mortgages. In short part of it was mortgage loans bundled and sold, then swapped and bundled and sold to the point no one really knew the worth of the bundled mortgages. This was by design. The more you shuffle, bundle, swap the more difficult it is to be aware of actual value. In some cases they were selling the "potential value" of the bundles and not the actual bundled mortgages (aka nothing). Those that held said bundles knew that by falsely inflating values they could make a large sum of money based solely on speculation as it was near impossible to actually value anything due to constant swapping/adjusting/ect. Those that were left holding the bag when speculated values finally reached its breaking point the government propped up while your average joe took the hit.

I agree that creating methods to create wealth with nothing tangible should be removed. However I do not feel crashing wall street is way to go about this. By doing this you will harm not only the entire world economy but millions of innocent persons.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

It was a LARGE contributor....I think it's funny that so many on both sides make such broad assumptions about so many things.

The Financial Crisis isn't a "Partisan" issue....

GhostlyJoe said:

The CRA, whatver its merits, was simply NOT the cause of the housing crisis. A contributor? Seems likely. But the contention that the CRA created the bubble and tanked the market is just partisan fingerpointing.

Here's in interesting article from a pair of Federal Reserve economists:



It's a complex issue. You oversimplify, then try to use that oversimplification to assign blame. It's intellecutally bankrupt.

Click to expand...

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

Amazed said:

It was a LARGE contributor....I think it's funny that so many on both sides make such broad assumptions about so many things.

The Financial Crisis isn't a "Partisan" issue....

Click to expand...

You're right about broad assumptions. It's such a complex issue, with so many factors in play and so many competing opinions, that's there's plenty of room to kick around political footballs.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

cpwill said:

dude, the Cuomo stuff is on CSPAN. and the influence of "roll the dice" Barney Frank in favor of pushing subprime loans is pretty solid history.

Click to expand...

Come on, what about President bush??? Have you aready forgotten his pushing the owership society back in 2004?

USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership

In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.

In announcing the plan Monday at a home builders show in Las Vegas, Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher called the proposal the "most significant FHA initiative in more than a decade." It would lead to 150,000 first-time owners annually, he said.

Nothing-down options are available on the private mortgage market, but, in general, they require the borrower to have pristine credit. Bush's proposed change would extend the nothing-down option to borrowers with blemished credit.

...

Click to expand...

:roll:

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

GhostlyJoe said:

The CRA, whatver its merits, was simply NOT the cause of the housing crisis. A contributor? Seems likely. But the contention that the CRA created the bubble and tanked the market is just partisan fingerpointing.

Click to expand...

C'mon guy...get real here. The CRA was THE CAUSE and the RATS did it for one reason and one only. To get the black and minority votes for the demonRATs. The excuse. To eliminate "red-lining" (I'll explain that if you don't get it) and to allow ALL to particpate in the American dream of home ownership. It was typical political BULL****! The CRA said to the big banks who were issuing mortgages that they didn't have to worry so much about underwriting standards in approving loan applicants and that a wink and a nod would do, because they already had set up the cesspools, mortgaged indirectly by the taxpayers, where they'd hide all those debt instruments to guarantee all that mortgage commitment. They were named Fannie and Freddie, a pair of demonRATic Beltway demonRATicly endowed whorehouses for liabilities walking the streets with no visible means of support. The **** really hit the fan when the amount of toxic asset paper they held became known as everyone standing out in the hallway with their pants at their ankles shrieked 'It was him that did it, not me.'

Note to pbrauer
Little Georgie-boy Bush, who I continue to say was single-handedly responsible for fracturing the Republican Party and will go down as the worst Repub President in the modern era sure didn't help matters at all. That fact of reality doesn't take away one little bit from the boys in the band who started the mess.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

Mellie said:

Business Insider: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash The Stock Market | The Blaze

Why on earth would anyone want to crash the stock market???

Click to expand...

I find it bizarre that a self-proclaimed libertarian would complain about someone calling for something libertarians often use to dismiss criticism of corporate abuse. He is telling people to vote with their wallets. So it seems the main thing you want is to say "you can vote with your wallet" while viciously attacking and degrading anyone who tries to do just that. Do you think a bank like JP Morgan Chase will be troubled by anything but a mortal threat to the financial markets? Even this latest crisis left them bigger, stronger, and more influential.

Kind of makes me think of that person who called for a bank run in Europe and the response from governments was to consider laws banning such campaigns.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

doctorhugo said:

C'mon guy...get real here. The CRA was THE CAUSE and the RATS did it for one reason and one only. To get the black and minority votes for the demonRATs. The excuse. To eliminate "red-lining" (I'll explain that if you don't get it) and to allow ALL to particpate in the American dream of home ownership. It was typical political BULL****! The CRA said to the big banks who were issuing mortgages that they didn't have to worry so much about underwriting standards in approving loan applicants and that a wink and a nod would do, because they already had set up the cesspools, mortgaged indirectly by the taxpayers, where they'd hide all those debt instruments to guarantee all that mortgage commitment. They were named Fannie and Freddie, a pair of demonRATic Beltway demonRATicly endowed whorehouses for liabilities walking the streets with no visible means of support. The **** really hit the fan when the amount of toxic asset paper they held became known as everyone standing out in the hallway with their pants at their ankles shrieked 'It was him that did it, not me.'

Note to pbrauer
Little Georgie-boy Bush, who I continue to say was single-handedly responsible for fracturing the Republican Party and will go down as the worst Repub President in the modern era sure didn't help matters at all. That fact of reality doesn't take away one little bit from the boys in the band who started the mess.

Click to expand...

Name-slinging aside, there's some accuracy in your post. Fannie and Freddy did exist, in fact, to securitize mortgages, though the CRA wasn't conceived until many years later. And securities certainly contributed much to the bubble growing as large as it did. Securities allowed banks to shield their bad assets by tying them to good assets. But when the bubble burst, the bad assets became a drag on the good. The CRA, however, is a small player in the housing collapse, contributing to the bubble by artificially raising demand and adding to the bad assets. Read the article I linked. The data don't support your analysis.

Banks like WAMU were issuing more and more aggressive "non-conforming" loans to investors, and some of the biggest collapses were in these investor markets (meaning they didn't meet Fannie and Freddy standards). Not surprising, as investors are more likely to walk away from a home that's underwater.

There's plenty of blame to go around. "DemonRATS" (a neutral term if there ever was one) are hardly the single root cause of this country's economic woes.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

Fact is the CRA was the beginning point....there were a hundred contributing factors....only the Left disputes that.

doctorhugo said:

C'mon guy...get real here. The CRA was THE CAUSE and the RATS did it for one reason and one only. To get the black and minority votes for the demonRATs. The excuse. To eliminate "red-lining" (I'll explain that if you don't get it) and to allow ALL to particpate in the American dream of home ownership. It was typical political BULL****! The CRA said to the big banks who were issuing mortgages that they didn't have to worry so much about underwriting standards in approving loan applicants and that a wink and a nod would do, because they already had set up the cesspools, mortgaged indirectly by the taxpayers, where they'd hide all those debt instruments to guarantee all that mortgage commitment. They were named Fannie and Freddie, a pair of demonRATic Beltway demonRATicly endowed whorehouses for liabilities walking the streets with no visible means of support. The **** really hit the fan when the amount of toxic asset paper they held became known as everyone standing out in the hallway with their pants at their ankles shrieked 'It was him that did it, not me.'

Note to pbrauer
Little Georgie-boy Bush, who I continue to say was single-handedly responsible for fracturing the Republican Party and will go down as the worst Repub President in the modern era sure didn't help matters at all. That fact of reality doesn't take away one little bit from the boys in the band who started the mess.

Click to expand...

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

MaggieD said:

The CRA was used to club lenders over the head to loosen credit requirements. Fiscal responsibility was thrown out the window in favor of, "Every American should be able to buy a house." Result? Our real estate crash -- as people who couldn't afford to buy lunch were loaned money to buy homes.

Click to expand...

Sorry, this is a gross oversimplification... in fact, its so gross and so simplified, it isn't true. The problem is far, far more sophisticated than to have been suddenly caused by a 30+ year old piece of legislation. If you believe this is its route, you have a ton more research to do.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

pbrauer said:

Come on, what about President bush??? Have you aready forgotten his pushing the owership society back in 2004?

Click to expand...

nope, and he deserves full ownership of that, just as Greenspan deserves full ownership of his easy money policy, and the ratings agencies deserve full ownership of their inability to accurately score debt instruments based off of mortgages. ACORN and other like "community" organizations deserve ownership of the pressure they brought to bearon banks, Congresscritters deserve ownership of their attempts to grandstand/mantain political support by helping them do so (hint:that's where the CRA comes in and plays its' role, and whole generations of politicians deserve ownership for it). Fannie and Freddie deserve full ownershp of their subsidization of and lobbying to expand the subprime market. Bankers deserve full ownership of their assumption that housing prices would never fall, and homebuyers deserve full ownership of their belief that they could A) turn their homes into never-ending money machines and B) should move into the largest, most luxurious house that they could afford a no-money-downpayment and a teaser rate on.

there were some Republicans who argued that fannie / freddie and the sub-prime housing market were going to create trouble, and Bush later changed his mind; but didn't have the political capital (or the will) to get anything done against a (then) Democratic Congress). Those republicans who did speak out never a significant enough percentage of the party; they were slammed by democrats and abandoned by their fellows.

Re: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan & Crash Stock Marke

upsideguy said:

Sorry, this is a gross oversimplification... in fact, its so gross and so simplified, it isn't true. The problem is far, far more sophisticated than to have been suddenly caused by a 30+ year old piece of legislation. If you believe this is its route, you have a ton more research to do.

Click to expand...

It wasn't used as a club? On that point, we differ. I've done tons of research. Real estate is my business. I see it/saw it in the trenches every day. I counselled buyers to take 30-year-fixed's when their lenders wanted to sell them 3-year ARM's with prepayment penalties. Encouraged them to not have their mortgage payment more than 30% of their income....when lenders were letting them do 40. I saw FHA loosen credit standards, set up mortgage products so trickey-dickey they were absolutely absurd. Saw minority buyers taken advantage of by their brethren in the mortgage industry. There's plenty of blame to go around. To say that the CRA didn't play a part shows that you yourself need to do more reading, in my opinion.

CPWill's got it righter.

Since the CRA's enactment, the implementing regulations have been substantially amended three times--in 1989, 1995, and 2005. In each case, changes to the regulations reflected both experience gained in the implementation of the law as well as ongoing developments in financial markets and the economy... In the view of many, urban decay was partly a consequence of limited credit availability, which encouraged urban flight and inhibited the rehabilitation of declining neighborhoods...Thirty years ago, the secondary market for mortgages was rudimentary at best, which limited local loan originators' access to capital and reduced their ability to diversify credit risks geographically.3 Informational problems also inhibited lending in some urban areas...Also, interest rate ceilings on mortgages in some locations effectively blocked lending to potential borrowers judged to pose higher risks, and interest rate ceilings on deposits (notably, the infamous Regulation Q) led to periodic episodes of disintermediation and reduced availability of mortgage credit ...The CRA reaffirmed the long-standing principle that financial institutions must serve "the convenience and needs," including credit needs, of the communities in which they are chartered. The obligation of financial institutions to serve their communities was seen as a quid pro quo for privileges such as the protection afforded by federal deposit insurance...The CRA was only one of a series of laws passed during the 1970s intended to reduce credit-related discrimination, expand access to credit, and shed light on lending patterns. The CRA itself focused on the provision of credit to low- and moderate-income communities...

Click to expand...

Evolution of the CRA -- Bernanke: FRB: Speech, Bernanke--The Community Reinvestment Act: Its Evolution and New Challenges-March 30, 2007