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Unions threaten Business

I do not have to prove anything of the sort. John Engler claims that he saved taxpayers $32 million dollars. So who saved the money? Obviously that was $32 million that stayed with the taxpayers and WAS DENEID TO THE STATE OF MICHIGAN. My kids would say "duh" to anybody who did not understand that.

Engler did not say that he saved SOME taxpayers $32 million while COSTING other Taxpayers $28 billion thus only losing $4 billion to the state. He uses the figure of $32 billion as a savings to ALL THE TAXPAYERS. A savings to the taxpayers is a LOSS to the state coffers. This is not rocket science.

So you saving your money hurts the state of Michigan? I am sure your kids are smart enough to know that they can use the money better than the state and there is no evidence that saving the taxpayers 32 million cost the state 32 million dollars in revenue. You actually think that the state would have generated 800000 jobs without the tax savings? Where is your proof as you have already said that the economy created jobs. What was the state budget during that period of time? Guess in your world money going to the state is much, much better than money going to the citizens. That explains to me what is wrong with the state of Michigan and liberals.
 
When you print my comment and then yours - there should be some relationship between the two. There is not in your rant.

In case you have not looked recently, unions are still there in the Auto biz and the companies are making big profits.

Of course the auto makers are thriving...what with parts manufactured in other countries...vehicles assembled in other countries...and what would you say the employment levels are? Those factories still thriving....booming??? really?
 
So you saving your money hurts the state of Michigan? I am sure your kids are smart enough to know that they can use the money better than the state and there is no evidence that saving the taxpayers 32 million cost the state 32 million dollars in revenue. You actually think that the state would have generated 800000 jobs without the tax savings? Where is your proof as you have already said that the economy created jobs. What was the state budget during that period of time? Guess in your world money going to the state is much, much better than money going to the citizens. That explains to me what is wrong with the state of Michigan and liberals.

Question: If the taxpayers of Michigan DID NOT pay $32 billion to the state coffers that were suppose to pay, then how much less did the state coffers have?

Answer: $32 billion dollars.

I have no idea what all the rest of your crap is trying to prove but that is pretty basic.
 
Question: If the taxpayers of Michigan DID NOT pay $32 billion to the state coffers that were suppose to pay, then how much less did the state coffers have?

Answer: $32 billion dollars.

I have no idea what all the rest of your crap is trying to prove but that is pretty basic.

What did the taxpayers do with that extra money? If they spent it, it got into the state coffers in sales tax revenue or corporate/business tax revenue. It also created 800000 jobs that didn't require unemployment benefits and generated more tax revenue for the state. Liberals don't seem to understand that concept.

It does say a lot about you when you are more worried about the state getting revenue vs. the taxpayers keeping what they earned. Guess I can understand that since you work for the taxpayers and need that paycheck.
 
yeah right. more from Econ Theory 101 that just never seems to actually work out that way in real life.

The only relevant word in your post came in the first line at the start of your second sentence.....

IF
 
yeah right. more from Econ Theory 101 that just never seems to actually work out that way in real life.

The only relevant word in your post came in the first line at the start of your second sentence.....

IF

Did the state of Michigan have a deficit or surplus during the Engler years? If they had a surplus then why do you think it is right for the state to overtax its citizens? Just like most state employees you seem to have zero problem taking money from the taxpayers even if more money than is actually needed by the state.
 
There is a lot that threatens business. Corrupt leaders, mafia, etc. What to do?!
 
yeah right. more from Econ Theory 101 that just never seems to actually work out that way in real life.

The only relevant word in your post came in the first line at the start of your second sentence.....

IF

Here is the answer to my post which of course I expected you to run from. Since Michigan is required to have a balanced budget and it is obvious that it did during the Engler years why should the state take an extra 32 million dollars from the taxpayers of the state? Seems you are more interested in your own paycheck than in taking care of the taxpayers' money. You have no problem overtaxing the citizens of the state which apparently the 32 million would have done.

Budget FAQs

Is the State of Michigan required to have a balanced budget?

Answer:
Yes. Article V, Section 18 of the Michigan Constitution of 1963 states, "Proposed expenditures from any fund shall not exceed the estimated revenue thereof."
 
randel, are you a leftwing zealot or simply a pawn for the unions to use for their own benefits? How are the following industries working out for you as these are examples of union "successes?" How many of these industries have had bankruptcies, massive layoffs, going out of business sales, or mergers just to stay in existence thanks to the unions. How did the unions help the people in those industries keep their jobs?

Steel
Automobiles
Railroads
Airlines
Education
Government workers
Longshoremen
Coal mines
Mariners

Seems like offshoring to me.

Businesses try to make the most while providing the least - awesome!

Workers (without whom many businesses could not exist) try to make the most while providing the least - greatest evil ever known

I always find this dichotomy amusing.

And where do the fortunes that derive from military spending fall in all of this.
Are they evil as well? Funding campaigns for the hawkish? Feathering their nests at the "taxpayers" expense.

I have rarely in my life found anything that was absolute in human affairs, yet the right in this country almost always reduces everything to absolutes.

It just seems disingenuous to reduce everything to nonsensical "all or nothing" responses.

Any discussion of income/wealth disparity is automatically advocating communism.

Any discussion of the dissolving middle class is trying to steal from those who "produce" to give to those who don't.

The utter refusal to consider anything other than these grossly oversimplified positions is boring at best and infuriating at worst.
 
Here is the answer to my post which of course I expected you to run from. Since Michigan is required to have a balanced budget and it is obvious that it did during the Engler years why should the state take an extra 32 million dollars from the taxpayers of the state? Seems you are more interested in your own paycheck than in taking care of the taxpayers' money. You have no problem overtaxing the citizens of the state which apparently the 32 million would have done.

Budget FAQs

Is the State of Michigan required to have a balanced budget?

Answer:
Yes. Article V, Section 18 of the Michigan Constitution of 1963 states, "Proposed expenditures from any fund shall not exceed the estimated revenue thereof."

Which tells you nothing about what they had to do to get there. Close down mental health facilities, cancel maintenance on roads and highways and bridges, cut social services, cut aid to education.... who the hell cares about that stuff anyways? btw - the Engler number is something he calculates as including the years HE WAS NOT GOVERNOR and that would be eight of them. There was a Democrat in charge those years........... and yes, they balanced the budget then also.
 
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Which tells you nothing about what they had to do to get there. Close down mental health facilities, cancel maintenance on roads and highways and bridges, cut social services, cut aid to education.... who the hell cares about that stuff anyways? btw - the Engler number is something he calculates as including the years HE WAS NOT GOVERNOR and that would be eight of them. There was a Democrat in charge those years........... and yes, they balanced the budget then also.

For someone who works for the state and is paid for by the taxpayers you really don't have a clue as to the role of govt. and where the revenue comes from to fund those programs. Highway funds come from gasoline taxes and has nothing to do with the tax cuts the Governor implemented. You seem to believe it is the role of the govt. to pay for social services that waste taxpayer dollars. just throw more money at the problem is what liberals do. Not enough money? Just tax people more. Seems that Engler was term limited out and won in a landslide. Now your state is a disaster and you want to blame someone else? Typical. Explain to me why Michigan unemployment went up under the Democrat Governor when the national unemployment rate was dropping?

Unions destroyed your state and your answer is to blame someone else.
 
Democrats wanted a bigger, govt controlled program. Are you telling me that the consumer didn't benefit from Medicare Part D? Don't disagree that both parties have a spending problem, but there is only one that doesn't care how much money even you make and that is the party I will support in the absence of a better alternative that has a chance to win.

They both are moving for bigger, government controlled programs. The main difference as I see it between the parties is which rights they want to come after first, how they first want us subjugated to the whims of government. But the end game is the same for both. Corporate give aways at our expense, larger government, more intrusive government, big deficit, big spending, big war, big brother style government. I don't see the R's doing anything different on this front. It's a scam that there's 2 parties, there is 1. They just bicker and complain to make it look like two; but when you get to the nitty gritty of it, they both act the same.
 
For someone who works for the state and is paid for by the taxpayers you really don't have a clue as to the role of govt. and where the revenue comes from to fund those programs. Highway funds come from gasoline taxes and has nothing to do with the tax cuts the Governor implemented. You seem to believe it is the role of the govt. to pay for social services that waste taxpayer dollars. just throw more money at the problem is what liberals do. Not enough money? Just tax people more. Seems that Engler was term limited out and won in a landslide. Now your state is a disaster and you want to blame someone else? Typical. Explain to me why Michigan unemployment went up under the Democrat Governor when the national unemployment rate was dropping?

Unions destroyed your state and your answer is to blame someone else.

You are indeed clueless. What do you think was one of Englers tax cuts? Gasoline taxes in the state which cut the money to repair highways.

You don't have a clue and its obvious with each and every post you make.
 
You are indeed clueless. What do you think was one of Englers tax cuts? Gasoline taxes in the state which cut the money to repair highways.

You don't have a clue and its obvious with each and every post you make.

LOL, sorry to confuse you with facts, Engler did a great job in Michigan and was a two term governor. He created 800,000 jobs and that really must tick you off as he did it without expansion of govt. Have never seen the excise taxes on gasoline cut, so prove it although it doesn't really matter. Federal Highways are funded by the Federal Excise tax and Engler couldn't cut those. I really don't think you have a clue what happened in the 90's as evidenced by your posts.
 
You are indeed clueless. What do you think was one of Englers tax cuts? Gasoline taxes in the state which cut the money to repair highways.

You don't have a clue and its obvious with each and every post you make.

Apparently you don't have a clue, here are the Engler Tax cuts, where are excise taxes cut? Also notice the surplus he generated so stop with the lies.

Governor Engler's straightforward strategy of cutting taxes to create jobs has pulled Michigan out of its inherited budget deficit and blessed taxpayers with a $1 billion surplus. As part of his "Taxpayer's Agenda" plan to revitalize Michigan, Engler has acted aggressively to reduce the tax burden on both families and new businesses. With nine tax cuts enacted in 1995, Michigan taxpayers are now benefitting from a total of 21 tax cuts since 1991. They include:

Cutting school-operating property taxes from an average 36 mills to 6 mills -- the biggest tax cut in Michigan's history ($3.4 billion). Associated with this cut is a cap that keeps assessments from rising more than the rate of inflation.
Cutting the personal income tax from 4.6 percent to 4.4 percent -- the lowest level since 1975.
Raising the personal exemption for the state income tax and indexing the exemption to rise with inflation.
Eliminating the state inheritance tax.
Increasing deductions for interest and dividend income for senior citizens.
Increasing the maximum single business credit limit on small business income.
Revising the apportionment of the Single Business Tax (SBT) base.
A 2 percent income tax rebate in order to comply with the Headlee Amendment limitations on government revenue.
Creating a limited exemption from the sales tax for commercial advertising.
Eliminating from the business tax base the cost of workers' compensation, social security, and unemployment insurance.
Phasing out and eliminating the "intangibles tax" -- Michigan's unfair and counterproductive capital gains tax.
Virtually eliminating the state tax on private pensions with a $60,000 exemption for married couples and $30,000 for individuals.
Reducing the state's main business tax, the Single Business Tax, from 2.35 percent to 2.3 percent.
Raising the filing threshold for the SBT from $40,000 to $100,000.
Further raising the filing threshold for the SBT from $100,000 to $250,000.
Cutting the SBT alternative profits tax from 4 percent to 3 percent.
Reducing the SBT alternative profits tax again -- from 3 percent to 2 percent.
Reducing the minimum unemployment insurance tax.
Changing the definitions of homesteads to provide property tax relief for Michigan farmers.
Freezing property tax assessments for one year.
Creating a nonrefundable income tax credit for college tuition paid on behalf of a dependent or a taxpayer.

Results

The net effect of Governor Engler's tax cuts has been to save Michigan taxpayers more than $1.7 billion this year alone and a total of more $6.5 billion since 1991. In addition, the state's tax structure is much more competitive when compared to other states. For example, Michigan's property taxes are nearly 10 percent below the national average. In addition, the state's tax burden as a percent of personal income has dropped from 16th in the nation to 27th.

The results for Michigan's economy have been impressive. In 1994, the state unemployment rate was below the national average for the first time since 1966. Unemployment for every month of 1996 has been below 5 percent, putting Michigan on track to end the year with the lowest unemployment rate since 1969. With employment growth of more than 500,000 since 1991, the number of Michigan men and women with jobs has reached a record high.

Michigan has also improved from having one of the worst unemployment rates among the industrial states to one of the best. Unemployment has also been cut in half in Detroit and -- a record duplicated by most Michigan cities.

The strength of Michigan's economy is further reflected in increasing purchasing power for Michigan families. In 1995, per capita personal income grew by 6.2 percent, one of the fastest growth rates in America. Michigan also climbed from 18th to 15th in the nation in personal income. In addition, from 1991 through 1995, Michigan ranked number one in the nation in income growth. Contributing to income growth was the fact that in 1995 alone, Michigan created one out of every five manufacturing jobs nationwide.

As Governor Engler puts it, "Michigan has been transformed from the broken buckle of the Rust Belt to the turbocharged engine powering the High Performance Heartland."

Best matches for Engler Tax cuts in Michigan
The net effect of Governor Engler's tax cuts has been to save Michigan taxpayers more than $1.7 billion this year alone and a total of more $6.5 billion...
 
LOL, sorry to confuse you with facts, Engler did a great job in Michigan and was a two term governor. He created 800,000 jobs and that really must tick you off as he did it without expansion of govt. Have never seen the excise taxes on gasoline cut, so prove it although it doesn't really matter. Federal Highways are funded by the Federal Excise tax and Engler couldn't cut those. I really don't think you have a clue what happened in the 90's as evidenced by your posts.

You are hopeless. State gas taxes were cut under Engler. State expenditures on infrastructure went down. We have lots of roads which are state and local roads - NOT FEDERAL WITH FED FUNDING. Like you don;t know that? The cuts he made impacted us really hard after he left and the Republicans who control the state Senate refuse to do any meaningful tax reform.

Engler did grow government however, Corrections increased top the point where we went on a prison building spree. Every single one of the new prisons was built in out state Republican areas providing jobs to strapping farm boys who could no longer cut in on the back forty. When Engler emptied the mental health institutions and hospitals, many ended up in prisons. Yeah, great guy you Engler is.

what is ;your source for that list? It seems to be noticably absent.
 
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You are hopeless. State gas taxes were cut under Engler. State expenditures on infrastructure went down. We have lots of roads which are state and local roads - NOT FEDERAL WITH FED FUNDING. Like you don;t know that? The cuts he made impacted us really hard after he left and the Republicans who control the state Senate refuse to do any meaningful tax reform.

Engler did grow government however, Corrections increased top the point where we went on a prison building spree. Every single one of the new prisons was built in out state Republican areas providing jobs to strapping farm boys who could no longer cut in on the back forty. When Engler emptied the mental health institutions and hospitals, many ended up in prisons. Yeah, great guy you Engler is.

AS has been pointed out Engler created a surplus, 800,000 jobs, and cut taxes and yet you believe he should have overtaxed the people in the state. that is liberalism, end of debate.
 
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Don't recall Engler being in office in 2003. As I recall Engler left office when Bush took office

From your article



You are really desparate as most liberals are

Are you not aware that budgets can overlap from one administration to another and one year to another? You really need to get educated about government. And here is the situation the new Democratic governor found herself in thanks to John Engler and his years in office slashing taxes .... from Wikipedia

Governor
Granholm was sworn in as the 47th Governor of the state of Michigan on January 1, 2003. The main issue facing the governor has been the massive budget deficit. Granholm has had to eliminate upwards of $200 per person from state budget expenditures, successfully resolving over $6 billion in budget deficits. She has emphasized the need for the state to attract young people and businesses to Michigan via the Cool Cities Initiative.[14][15] As Governor, she is a member of the National Governors Association. She is chair of the Health and Human Services Committee and is co-chair of the Health Care Task Force of the National Governors Association. She is also a former Chair of the Midwestern Governors Association. She lives in the official Michigan Governor's Residence located near the Capitol Building.


Jennifer Granholm (second from right) with Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour (first left), Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius (second), United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (center), and Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue (right)
In 2003, Granholm ran five miles across the Mackinac Bridge, which connects the state's two peninsulas, in 47 minutes during the Mackinac Bridge Walk. Her run began a new tradition, and 2004 saw the first annual Governor’s Labor Day Bridge Run[16] held hours before the Annual Bridge Walk. This time she finished the run in under 45 minutes. After joining her husband Daniel Mulhern for the last two miles of his October 24, 2004 Detroit Free Press/Flagstar Bank Marathon run, Granholm remarked "I would love to run a marathon before I'm 50."
During Granholm’s first year in office, she made a significant number of budget cuts to deal with a $1.7 billion deficit (about 2% of the annual state budget). She was upset by proposals to cut state funding to social welfare programs, such as homeless shelters and mental health agencies. During an interview, she reflected on the proper perspective of budget cuts:

it seems your boy Engler screwed the pooch.
 
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Are you not aware that budgets can overlap from one administration to another and one year to another? You really need to get educated about government. And here is the situation the new Democratic governor found herself in thanks to John Engler and his years in office slashing taxes from Wikipedia



it seems your boy Engler screwed the pooch.

I gave you the list of taxes that Engler cut but of course that didn't suit your agenda so you go after the Federal Funds that were cut. Budgets can be changed, Obama changed the 2009 budget then blamed Bush for the deficits. Granholm could have done the same thing with the 2003 Engler Budget. there isn't a social program that liberals will ever propose to cut regardless of how bloated or ineffecient they are. Stop thinking with your heart and use your brain.
 
Don't recall Engler being in office in 2003. As I recall Engler left office when Bush took office

From your article



You are really desparate as most liberals are



Are you not aware that budgets can overlap from one administration to another and one year to another? You really need to get educated about government. And here is the situation the new Democratic governor found herself in thanks to John Engler and his years in office slashing taxes .... from Wikipedia

Governor
Granholm was sworn in as the 47th Governor of the state of Michigan on January 1, 2003. The main issue facing the governor has been the massive budget deficit. Granholm has had to eliminate upwards of $200 per person from state budget expenditures, successfully resolving over $6 billion in budget deficits. She has emphasized the need for the state to attract young people and businesses to Michigan via the Cool Cities Initiative.[14][15] As Governor, she is a member of the National Governors Association. She is chair of the Health and Human Services Committee and is co-chair of the Health Care Task Force of the National Governors Association. She is also a former Chair of the Midwestern Governors Association. She lives in the official Michigan Governor's Residence located near the Capitol Building.


Jennifer Granholm (second from right) with Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour (first left), Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius (second), United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (center), and Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue (right)
In 2003, Granholm ran five miles across the Mackinac Bridge, which connects the state's two peninsulas, in 47 minutes during the Mackinac Bridge Walk. Her run began a new tradition, and 2004 saw the first annual Governor’s Labor Day Bridge Run[16] held hours before the Annual Bridge Walk. This time she finished the run in under 45 minutes. After joining her husband Daniel Mulhern for the last two miles of his October 24, 2004 Detroit Free Press/Flagstar Bank Marathon run, Granholm remarked "I would love to run a marathon before I'm 50."
During Granholm’s first year in office, she made a significant number of budget cuts to deal with a $1.7 billion deficit (about 2% of the annual state budget). She was upset by proposals to cut state funding to social welfare programs, such as homeless shelters and mental health agencies. During an interview, she reflected on the proper perspective of budget cuts:

it seems your boy Engler screwed the pooch.
 
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I gave you the list of taxes that Engler cut but of course that didn't suit your agenda so you go after the Federal Funds that were cut. Budgets can be changed, Obama changed the 2009 budget then blamed Bush for the deficits. Granholm could have done the same thing with the 2003 Engler Budget. there isn't a social program that liberals will ever propose to cut regardless of how bloated or ineffecient they are. Stop thinking with your heart and use your brain.

Its always Obama with you ins't it?

Google Answers: Budget and Employment Stats for the state of Michigan

Seems you boy Engler left the state with nearly $4 billion in deficits over his last three budgets.
 
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