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Unions threaten Business

Have you such little faith in your own work ethich and performance that you have to have someone else negotiate for you? I never belonged to a union in my 35 years of business and my bet is I earned more money than you could ever think of earning or ever will earn being part of a union. Have there ever been anyone leaving the union that did better for themselves than they did in the Union?

You do realize that this is the internets right.

Being real pompous and bragging about **** you cannot show us or prove is not the way to go in an honest intellectual debate.

Your "personal experience" is irrelevant here because every person is a case by case basis, and you cannot substantiate your claims of business prowess.
 
Have you such little faith in your own work ethich and performance that you have to have someone else negotiate for you? I never belonged to a union in my 35 years of business and my bet is I earned more money than you could ever think of earning or ever will earn being part of a union. Have there ever been anyone leaving the union that did better for themselves than they did in the Union?

Paying someone with specialized skills to perform a task normally outside of your expertise is not a bad thing to do. Contract negotiations would be something most people would engage in once every few years, and require going into the financial wellbeing of the company to see the potential for compensation increases. Paying someone to do that so you can focus on what you are good at is a good idea. Companies do that all the time, why not individuals seeking to maximize their compensation as well. A CEO will hire a team of lawyers, accounts etc to go over various contracts, a singular individual will not have the resources to do that, so by pooling their resource the workers can level the playing field and generally maximize their compensation. All in all a very capitalistic thing to do. It also involves specialization of skills to improve overall efficiency
 
hmmmm....making people less dependent on a 'nanny state', and not subservient to kings, lords and dictators sounds so nice...in theory..but in practice, the views you advocate, the abolishment of unions, the limiting of a group's power to negotiate for a better living, goes against that theory....in actuality, the views you have would keep people subservient, their existence to be determined by the whims of the powerful, would keep them 'in their place', to serve the powerful, the kings, the dictators, the lords...your views would keep people begging for the scraps that are left over.....

I have no problem with real trade unions that teach a skill and guarantee good work


the issue is public service unions-those employed by the government have full protection of the law

dependence breeds weakness which is exactly what the dems have intended for years
 
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Just a quick side bar:
I sat for 2 and half hours watching this fat F##K of the lead shipper bullsh#ting with his buddy before putting on a crate (just 1)for China, not only does this cost me money but also time that I don't have. Even the underlings said that this dude is a lazy F*** but there was nothing they could do, the only one who can release the shipment was him. This is standard operating procedure for unions on the east coast, this is the rule not the exception. I have to deal with a lot of unions in my line of work.
 
Just a quick side bar:
I sat for 2 and half hours watching this fat F##K of the lead shipper bullsh#ting with his buddy before putting on a crate (just 1)for China, not only does this cost me money but also time that I don't have. Even the underlings said that this dude is a lazy F*** but there was nothing they could do, the only one who can release the shipment was him. This is standard operating procedure for unions on the east coast, this is the rule not the exception. I have to deal with a lot of unions in my line of work.

There are plenty of union horror stories. GM's job banks. NYC's rubber room. McCormack Place Convention Center. Rosemont, IL Convention Center. Ridiculous union rules that are sucking blood from those who have to interact with them....hurting their own companies and the general public/taxpayers.

It is past time for reform. I hope we're on the way.
 
There are plenty of union horror stories. GM's job banks. NYC's rubber room. McCormack Place Convention Center. Rosemont, IL Convention Center. Ridiculous union rules that are sucking blood from those who have to interact with them....hurting their own companies and the general public/taxpayers.

It is past time for reform. I hope we're on the way.
I got into a fight at the GM plant back in 1988, I got out of my truck and I didn't say one word not even boo and this security guy started yelling at me for no reason...so I punched him in the face. I wouldn't have until he started calling me a MF'er. Anyrate I was banded for life...LOL, they did me a favor.
 
You do realize that this is the internets right.

Being real pompous and bragging about **** you cannot show us or prove is not the way to go in an honest intellectual debate.

Your "personal experience" is irrelevant here because every person is a case by case basis, and you cannot substantiate your claims of business prowess.

Has absolutely nothing to do with bragging, but everything to do with common sense and logic. Doesn't seem to matter to liberals who always need someone else to negotiate for them. Unions just like a minimum wage also serve as the maximum wage that has to be paid and that shortchanges a lot of good people who could do better if paid base upon performance and initiative.
 
Paying someone with specialized skills to perform a task normally outside of your expertise is not a bad thing to do. Contract negotiations would be something most people would engage in once every few years, and require going into the financial wellbeing of the company to see the potential for compensation increases. Paying someone to do that so you can focus on what you are good at is a good idea. Companies do that all the time, why not individuals seeking to maximize their compensation as well. A CEO will hire a team of lawyers, accounts etc to go over various contracts, a singular individual will not have the resources to do that, so by pooling their resource the workers can level the playing field and generally maximize their compensation. All in all a very capitalistic thing to do. It also involves specialization of skills to improve overall efficiency

I can see why a lot of people required that but I never thought much of someone else negotiating for me because I let my performance speak for itself. Produce and get results and you make yourself marketable if the company won't reward you for your efforts. Too many people have little pride and initiative in themselves and need the unions. I never did and was rewarded quite well over my career.
 
You do realize that this is the internets right.

Being real pompous and bragging about **** you cannot show us or prove is not the way to go in an honest intellectual debate.

Your "personal experience" is irrelevant here because every person is a case by case basis, and you cannot substantiate your claims of business prowess.
couldnt have said it better myself, thanks...
 
Have you such little faith in your own work ethich and performance that you have to have someone else negotiate for you? I never belonged to a union in my 35 years of business and my bet is I earned more money than you could ever think of earning or ever will earn being part of a union. Have there ever been anyone leaving the union that did better for themselves than they did in the Union?

Most teachers and police officers don't go into their profession for the money...
 
couldnt have said it better myself, thanks...

You also do realize that unions protect mediocrity? Seems that you always focus on the extremes and believe all union employees are cream of the crop when the reality is the cream of the crop don't need unions as unions really keep these people down.
 
Most teachers and police officers don't go into their profession for the money...

Most teachers and police officers don't need unions either. A merit system works quite well. Unions protect mediocrity and keep good people from achieving their maximum potential.
 
Most teachers and police officers don't need unions either. A merit system works quite well. Unions protect mediocrity and keep good people from achieving their maximum potential.

Where is your data to back those claims up?
 
Most teachers and police officers don't go into their profession for the money...
I think your probably right, although once in I imagine they are quite dissappointed when they find out what rules they must play by. Then there are the lifers in other words slugs, that will drag the rest down with them.
 
Where is your data to back those claims up?

Where is yours that teachers and police need unions and why is that relevant at this point. I live in a community where teachers and the police aren't unions, they make as much if not more than police in another community that is unionized. These teachers and police don't pay union dues thus are doing better.

Most quality individuals don't like the actions of the thugs in the unions.
 
Has absolutely nothing to do with bragging, but everything to do with common sense and logic. Doesn't seem to matter to liberals who always need someone else to negotiate for them. Unions just like a minimum wage also serve as the maximum wage that has to be paid and that shortchanges a lot of good people who could do better if paid base upon performance and initiative.
and alot of good hardworking people get shortchanged in shops without unions...you labor under the assumption that if you bust ass and work hard, that you will be 'rewarded'....sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, no guarantees. i'm gonna let some of you in on a secret, and i'm sure this will come as a big shock to you...THIS COUNTRY IS A UNION!!! gasp!! shock!!! the horror!!! a group of states banded together...formed a UNION, because they realized that together they were much stronger than they ever would be apart....
 
It would be the military.

The military proves that merit evaluation works for the military. I want proof that it works for teachers and police officers whose profession exists a completely separate realm of society with different problems and challenges.
 
Where is yours that teachers and police need unions and why is that relevant at this point. I live in a community where teachers and the police aren't unions, they make as much if not more than police in another community that is unionized. These teachers and police don't pay union dues thus are doing better.

Most quality individuals don't like the actions of the thugs in the unions.
and it is statements like your last sentence that are the reason so few people take you seriously...
 
Where is yours that teachers and police need unions and why is that relevant at this point. I live in a community where teachers and the police aren't unions, they make as much if not more than police in another community that is unionized. These teachers and police don't pay union dues thus are doing better.

Most quality individuals don't like the actions of the thugs in the unions.

I never made that claim so I don't need to provide data. Where is your data to back your claims up though? I want to see the data.

Most teachers and police officers don't need unions either. A merit system works quite well. Unions protect mediocrity and keep good people from achieving their maximum potential.

Where is the data that proves teachers and police officers don't need unions?
Where is the data that proves the merit system works well for teachers and police officers?
Where is the data that shows unions protect mediocrity and keep good people from achieving their maximum potential?

Do have verifiable evidence or are you making empty claims?
 
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The military proves that merit evaluation works for the military. I want proof that it works for teachers and police officers whose profession exists a completely separate realm of society with different problems and challenges.
Well they are thousands of examples out there for and against, the bottom line is that everyone in a free country has the right to work, especially when it comes to the government. They should be able to do so with being forced or coerced into joining a union. Now for one more example, this would be the oil industry from the roustabout on up.
 
and alot of good hardworking people get shortchanged in shops without unions...you labor under the assumption that if you bust ass and work hard, that you will be 'rewarded'....sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, no guarantees. i'm gonna let some of you in on a secret, and i'm sure this will come as a big shock to you...THIS COUNTRY IS A UNION!!! gasp!! shock!!! the horror!!! a group of states banded together...formed a UNION, because they realized that together they were much stronger than they ever would be apart....

Right, your cup is half empty and mine is half full. If you are as good as you think you are, you don't need a union to be rewarded for your efforts. A lot of good people in unions are always being held down.

If you think this country is a union you really are out of touch with reality. This country is 50 independent sovereign states with their own set of laws and leadership. They are united under a Constitution but that doesn't change their independence and as our founders believed concentration of power at the state and local level. The purpose of the United States was for protection not equal outcome which unions try to promote.
 
I never made that claim so I don't need to provide data. Where is your data to back your claims up though? I want to see the data.



Where is the data that proves teachers and police officers don't need unions?
Where is the data that proves the merit system works well for teachers and police officers?
Where is the data that shows unions protect mediocrity and keep good people from achieving their maximum potential?

Do have verifiable evidence or are you making empty claims?

In your mind the perception is that teachers and police need unions, there is nothing I can provide that will change your mind nor do I care to. The numbers speak for themselves, union membership has been declining for years. My experience in dealing with unions and some very good employees in those unions form the basis of my statements. Many good people left the unions when they realized they were being held down. You don't believe it, tough, believe what you want and never reach your ultimate potential.
 
and it is statements like your last sentence that are the reason so few people take you seriously...

It is people like you that cause others as well to have zero support for unions as union membership continues to drop to less than 12% today. The threats from union employees to anyone that disagrees with them is quite telling. All that video of course is doctored in your world so it really doesn't matter to you that thugs threaten anyone who disagrees with them.
 
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