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Unions threaten Business

Catawba said:
That's what I thought, there are no proposals except to cut funding and end collective bargaining.
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What are you talking about? My responses to you have been about your ridiculous comparison of education funds v military funds as % GDP. You will not drag me into an argument I'm not making. :rofl

I thought you wanted to learn what inclusion/mainstreaming was since it sounded like you had never heard of it.

Welcome to Virginia Professional Educators
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So what's this link?? When you reference a link at least have the courtesy to copy/paste what's relevant to a particular discussion. If this is supposed to show that nonunion states don't have special education programs, well, I'll just say: FAIL. Show me a link that proves your allegation that nonunion states do not have special education classes. Show me that correlation. I'll wait.
 
randel said:
mmmm...nope...the government is not the mob....keep trying though, as this is amusing
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Right.....its not The Mob.....but should you decide to not pay them.....they send men with guns to your door.
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MaggieD said:
Then pretty much another personal attack from TPD. No problem. I couldn't care any less.
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Hypocrisy. Victim Card.

I don't understand this post. Address MY point. NY spends considerably more per student than MA yet is a dismal failure.
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I addressed your point. Read it again. 1. I haven't mentioned "endless supply". Therefore to keeping bringing it up is unnecessary. 2. You brought up how spending the "same amount of money appropriately" is just as good as spending increased funds appropriately. However, spending "the same amount of money" as underfunded schools already have helps nothing because they are ... underfunded for what they need to provide.

Jeesh. Bolded phrase above? That's my whole freakin' point. As to ignoring your #3, I ignored it because I don't know whether or not NY just increased its funding....do you?
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Yes, it is, but you need to prove that this is the case with NY and you have not because you have not shown:
1. What NY used its money on and how it does not contributes to helping education.
2. That they actually did spend too much money.
3. That their reforms have not worked...(Like I said, it took MA 10-12 years to reap the benefits of their reform - you don't know if NY hasn't worked because it hasn't had a significant amount of time to test).

You keep using NY as an example of how more money doesn't help, but you have yet to show that NY's money has not helped or demonstrate any knowledge of how/when/if NY implemented its reforms. You keep showing large amounts of money and low scores without any point of reference as to when school reform happened and how/how long it is expected to kick in. Using NY is a faulty example no matter what though, because it's based on reforms that have not had enough time to show huge results. It's like giving a cancer patient radiation and trying to see if his cancer is cured the next day. MA reforms took 10-12 years to see results...wait and talk to me about NY then.

And to answer your question: yes I do know the answer, but if you bring it up as evidence to support your claim, you should know too. (I'll give you a hint, the answer doesn't support your claim).
 
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Badmutha said:
Right.....its not The Mob.....but should you decide to not pay them.....they send men with guns to your door.
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keep going, i am enjoying this...lol MOB....UNION THUGS INC....LOLLOL
 
randel said:
keep going, i am enjoying this...lol MOB....UNION THUGS INC....LOLLOL
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My willfully ignorant friend.....Im glad your enjoying it......

.......the lack of any attempt at a rebuttle or argument to the contrary only signifies you conceded the argument from the moment you entered the discussion.

Thanks for playing......
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Badmutha said:
My willfully ignorant friend.....Im glad your enjoying it......

.......the lack of any attempt at a rebuttle or argument to the contrary only signifies you conceded the argument from the moment you entered the discussion.

Thanks for playing......
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lol!!!! why do i need a rebuttal? you are arguing against a creation of your own mind!! good grief!! have you stopped to listen to yourself, or actually read what you are posting? lol
 
randel said:
lol!!!! why do i need a rebuttal? you are arguing against a creation of your own mind!! good grief!! have you stopped to listen to yourself, or actually read what you are posting? lol
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And the Union slob still doesnt want to touch the topic, the facts, or reality......

.......who would of thought. Maybe you should try something different, than using LOL as the basis of 99% of your "arguments".

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Badmutha said:
And the Union slob still doesnt want to touch the topic, the facts, or reality......

.......who would of thought. Maybe you should try something different, than using LOL as the basis of 99% of your "arguments".

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you don't know me, or my work habits, or those of of all my union brothers and sisters, but you beleive yourself competent to sit in judgement of us? get off your high horse, and educate yourself, you sound extremely foolish with the whole MOB...UNION THUGS INC. bs you are spouting.
 
randel said:
you don't know me, or my work habits, or those of of all my union brothers and sisters,
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Sure I do.....my fellow union slob brother....I was in a Union for a short time in my early life. I saw it first hand......a collective effort to do as little as possible.....while trying to fleece taxpayers and employers as much as possible.

but you beleive yourself competent to sit in judgement of us?
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Speaking on behalf of all the Taxpayers that fund your bloated salaries, gold plated health care, and diamond inlayed pension.......

.......YES....We Can......

get off your high horse, and educate yourself, you sound extremely foolish with the whole MOB...UNION THUGS INC. bs you are spouting.
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Your Union ru(i)n Public Education is very telling.......
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Badmutha said:
Sure I do.....my fellow union slob brother....I was in a Union for a short time in my early life. I saw it first hand......a collective effort to do as little as possible.....while trying to fleece taxpayers and employers as much as possible.



Speaking on behalf of all the Taxpayers that fund your bloated salaries, gold plated health care, and diamond inlayed pension.......

.......YES....We Can......



Your Union ru(i)n Public Education is very telling.......
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i would tell you that you are extremely full of it, but i'm sure you have been told that before. you wouldnt be a union brother of mine if you were lazy and worthless , you wouldnt last long.
 
randel said:
i would tell you that you are extremely full of it, but i'm sure you have been told that before. you wouldnt be a union brother of mine if you were lazy and worthless , you wouldnt last long.
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Sure I would.....as soon as I have my tenure I would be untouchable....with virtually no chance of being fired.....a bloated paycheck regardless of results.....and Free Gold Plated Health Care and a Diamond Inlayed Pension for eternity........all paid for by stealing from poor and middle class workers who make less and have fewer benefits.

........this is what Union Pride is all about, my fellow Union Brother.
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Catawba said:
But we never had a strong middle class until progressive taxes.
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BS and more BS and you cannot find a shred of evidence that progressive taxes made the middle class stronger. what really spurred the middle class was the huge economic advantage the US had for the period after WWII to about 1960 being the only industrial power that had not been destroyed by the war
 
randel said:
only 300 bucks for a good kneecapping? damn...just damn.....back in the day that was a grand easy......i know times are tough and all, but only 300? i miss the good ol' days.
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Tell me about it! Now you have to do three just to get what one would get you at our height of power. And then the bastards go and get reconstructive surgery and you have to do it again- for free! Of course that rate is here in Michigan. Too much competition from other union thugs and goons. There are just so many of them here. I am thinking of relocating to a more friendly place like northern New Jersey.
 
TurtleDude said:
BS and more BS and you cannot find a shred of evidence that progressive taxes made the middle class stronger. what really spurred the middle class was the huge economic advantage the US had for the period after WWII to about 1960 being the only industrial power that had not been destroyed by the war
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The irony of you talking about others not finding evidence for their statements while you pontificate and make statements in the same post without providing any evidence of your own is delicious in the extreme.
 
haymarket said:
The irony of you talking about others not finding evidence for their statements while you pontificate and make statements in the same post without providing any evidence of your own is delicious in the extreme.
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that was neither responsive nor relevant. no one can prove the wet dream of more taxes on the rich help the middle class
 
TurtleDude said:
that was neither responsive nor relevant. no one can prove the wet dream of more taxes on the rich help the middle class
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It fit perfectly.
You complained about another poster Catawba - not supporting their statement about progressive taxation.
You then made an alleged statement of fact about prosperity without supporting it with any evidence.
You did the exact same thing you found fault with Catawba for doing.

Just like you always do.

Now you cannot even understand when you are criticized for doing something that you just did minutes ago. Its pathological I tell you.

If somebody created a sitcom character who does just what you do it would be considered far too broad to be believable. I dno't care what position you take on any issue - just support it for heavens sake with facts and data that are verifiable. That is one of the the central parts of an exchange in a debate.
 
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theplaydrive said:
I addressed your point. Read it again. 1. I haven't mentioned "endless supply". Therefore to keeping bringing it up is unnecessary. 2. You brought up how spending the "same amount of money appropriately" is just as good as spending increased funds appropriately. However, spending "the same amount of money" as underfunded schools already have helps nothing because they are ... underfunded for what they need to provide.

Who defines underfunded? Is New York underfunded? Wisconsin? Who makes that decision??? Before one talks about "Give us more money," one needs to look at how it's being spent. That's my point. Your point, and Catawba's point, is, "We don't have enough money."

Yes, it is, but you need to prove that this is the case with NY and you have not because you have not shown:
1. What NY used its money on and how it does not contributes to helping education.
2. That they actually did spend too much money.
3. That their reforms have not worked...(Like I said, it took MA 10-12 years to reap the benefits of their reform - you don't know if NY hasn't worked because it hasn't had a significant amount of time to test).
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There are greater minds than mine (and yours, by the way) that can and must put their heads together to find the answer to, "How can we make better use of the money we have?" "What's the best way to spend dollars on education?" Is it being done? I don't know. But I know it needs to be in every single school district in this country. The consistent chant of "we-need-more-money-we-need-more-money" has definitely run its course.

You keep using NY as an example of how more money doesn't help, but you have yet to show that NY's money has not helped or demonstrate any knowledge of how/when/if NY implemented its reforms. You keep showing large amounts of money and low scores without any point of reference as to when school reform happened and how/how long it is expected to kick in. Using NY is a faulty example no matter what though, because it's based on reforms that have not had enough time to show huge results. It's like giving a cancer patient radiation and trying to see if his cancer is cured the next day. MA reforms took 10-12 years to see results...wait and talk to me about NY then.

And to answer your question: yes I do know the answer, but if you bring it up as evidence to support your claim, you should know too. (I'll give you a hint, the answer doesn't support your claim).
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You've already answered it -- with pontification. Please give me a link and kindly snip some part of it that substantiates your claim. This website is a place to get educated as much as it is to educate. Expecting posters to read through 5,000 words to find "an albeit brief reference" is ridiculous.
 
haymarket said:
It fit perfectly.
You complained about another poster Catawba - not supporting their statement about progressive taxation.
You then made an alleged statement of fact about prosperity without supporting it with any evidence.
You did the exact same thing you found fault with Catawba for doing.

Just like you always do.

Now you cannot even understand when you are criticized for doing something that you just did minutes ago. Its pathological I tell you.

If somebody created a sitcom character who does just what you do it would be considered far too broad to be believable. I dno't care what position you take on any issue - just support it for heavens sake with facts and data that are verifiable. That is one of the the central parts of an exchange in a debate.
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this is really pathological
 
TurtleDude said:
this is really pathological
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Repeating what is told to you may be a good first step for you. It shows the advice is sinking in. Now all you have to do is to take what many have been telling you here and begin using supporting evidence from verifiable sources to support your opinions. Then you can be on the road to true debate.
 
MaggieD said:
There are greater minds than mine (and yours, by the way) that can and must put their heads together to find the answer to, "How can we make better use of the money we have?" "What's the best way to spend dollars on education?" Is it being done? I don't know. But I know it needs to be in every single school district in this country. The consistent chant of "we-need-more-money-we-need-more-money" has definitely run its course.
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It's unfortunate that you think yourself incapable of tackling big problems like education, particularly as voter. Although, I do take pleasure in the fact that you want to impose your own limitations onto my intellect as well. One of my "friends" in high school did that once. We both applied to a particular college and she said to me, "I'm sure smarter people than us will get in". I got in and she didn't. Confidence is more than half the battle.:)

Nonetheless, Catawba and I have addressed this question several times, but you chose to ignore it because you are unwilling to accept that there are people on this board who know more than you about education.

Who defines underfunded? Is New York underfunded? Wisconsin? Who makes that decision??? Before one talks about "Give us more money," one needs to look at how it's being spent. That's my point.
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If you took more time to study education and particularly the states that you claim to know so much about, then you wouldn't ask these questions. Maybe I understand this more because my whole life via my family has been immersed in the incompetence of the Chicago Public Education system.

Your point, and Catawba's point, is, "We don't have enough money.
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We've already been over this: no it's not. The point is: more money + appropriate use = better education.

Read the study I gave you and find other studies for more information since you care so much. I've already done my research which is why I'm so confident in my answers to you. I rarely post in places where I haven't already studied the topic.

BTW: I noticed that you didn't answer my questions that challenged your assertion that NY was a good illustration of your point. That just proves you weren't able to back up your main claim. You always move on to other topics when someone challenges your assertions.

You've already answered it -- with pontification. Please give me a link and kindly snip some part of it that substantiates your claim. This website is a place to get educated as much as it is to educate. Expecting posters to read through 5,000 words to find "an albeit brief reference" is ridiculous.
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In your own words from another thread as directed to me:
MaggieD said:
I have no particular desire to bring you up to speed.
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:)
 
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TurtleDude said:
BS and more BS and you cannot find a shred of evidence that progressive taxes made the middle class stronger.
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The history of the United States 1930-1980.

End of thread.

Progressive taxation is the only way this country survived and grew as long as it has.

what really spurred the middle class was the huge economic advantage the US had for the period after WWII to about 1960 being the only industrial power that had not been destroyed by the war
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Somewhat. But maintaining a quality of living for the working class, infrastructure, gov investment in science and tech, and education has allowed us to grow beyond that. All the things that I've explained to you many, many times. Big business prospers because of the gov. Not in spite of.

Unfortunately, a de facto monarchy has sprung up. And their inbred generation of crooks has taken over the markets. Amoral, short sighted, visionless weaklings who fell into wealth and power. Thank god for the self-made men who keep us afloat. Shame on the current Government for not turning back the clock on Bushies follies and cracking down on the markets run amok.

It may be too late. They may have grown beyond our ability to control them. Another great depression might be what is needed to give an enema to foul corruption in lower manhattan.
 
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hazlnut said:
The history of the United States 1930-1980.

End of thread.

Progressive taxation is the only way this country survived and grew as long as it has.



Somewhat. But maintaining a quality of living for the working class, infrastructure, gov investment in science and tech, education has allowed us to grow beyond that. All the things that I've explained to you many, many times. Big business prospers because of the gov. Not in spite of.
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no proof, no evidence just BS
 
hazlnut said:
I've given it all to you in many, many other threads. My breath was wasted.
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you have never provided any proof to the outlandish claim that progressive tax rates made this country great or expanded the middle class. you might as well claim that Jim Crow laws did because they were in place at the same time
 
Catawba said:
I stand corrected it appears, there are 6 small countries I missed that spend a higher percentage of GDP on military than the US.
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china is hardly "small".

but either way, the point remains relevant. It doesn't matter if Georgia spends a higher percentage of GDP than the US; the quality of her military is still poorer than ours. because we spend much, much more. Georgia could spend 25% of GDP on her military and still it wouldn't be as effective as ours.

It shows the priority for the US and explains why we have dropped in academic achievement compared to the rest of the world.


You get what you pay for.
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i've seperated those statements because they have no bearing on each other. what portion of the quality of education that is effected by spending is controlled by raw dollars, not percent of GDP. if you were to purchase a $2,000 computer on a $3,000 a month salary, and then got a raise to $5,000 a month; the fact that you got a raise doesn't reduce the quality of your computer. and the claim that you can compare the spending on education to GDP to figure out how it ranks in our national set of priorities is similarly flawed; some things cost more than others. I give more to charity every month than I spend feeding my 3 year old; that doesn't mean that given the choice between the two I would starve my child - he is a higher priority. it just also happens that feeding him costs less.
 
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