• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

cpwill said:
sure there is. subsistence level farming, for example, often depended on damaging slash-and-burn. the excuse there is that you don't have the spare labor and you dont' want to starve to death.
Click to expand...

Talk about subsistence level education and you can be on point....
 
cpwill said:
good point :) we're getting off track with this.
Click to expand...

sounds like a good topic, tho....IMO, education does too little and too much....too much of things that may never be used, too little keeping the curriculum relevant...
 
UtahBill said:
Talk about subsistence level education and you can be on point....
Click to expand...

You should start a thread as I would be interested in that discussion. Let me know if you do start one.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
ALright man...... teachers hardly do any work. They are there for SIX hours a day! Thats 30 hours a WEEK! They are off around 2 days a month for whatever lame holiday comes around. Then they have THREE MONTHS OFF!!! Their job is EASY! At least 3 out of 10 people could walk in and do their job with ZERO training.
You know why its hard to get a teachers position? Because everyone and their cousin wants to be one! So they made it more difficult in Illinois to qualify. My friend Rob is a teacher. He used to be a retail book store manager. He said that was TWICE as difficult.

Lets not even get into how difficult it is to fire a crappy teacher! Or their INSANE pensions! Beginning teachers should make no more than $27K a year and after ten years make no more than $37K a year. Now divide that salary by NINE...... NOT 12 since they only work 9 months. Plus they need to pay 20% of their benefits.
Click to expand...
I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't agree with your numbers. Teachers work more than 6 hours a day, that's for sure. I believe they also work 10 months a year, plus a few weeks during the summer. I believe many people in this country get slightly less than twice their salary in total compensation.
 
UtahBill said:
Our teacher son is preparing to become an asst. principal, getting his credentials, and interning. He agrees that some teachers need to go. It isn't always easy to get rid of marginal teachers, certainly not as easy as getting rid of truly bad teachers.
How are moral teachings being contradicted? What morals are we talking about?
Click to expand...

Most recently in promoting the legitimization of homosexuality. There are others, but this is the front burner atm.
 
American said:
I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't agree with your numbers. Teachers work more than 6 hours a day, that's for sure. I believe they also work 10 months a year, plus a few weeks during the summer. I believe many people in this country get slightly less than twice their salary in total compensation.
Click to expand...

according to the Wisconsin Department of Public Education, Teachers in 2010-2011 will "most commonly" work from Aug 30 to Nov 24, then from Nov 29 to Dec 22, then from Jan 3 to April 21, and then from April 26 to June 3.

So they are getting, it looks like, about 3 months in the summer and then another month-ish scattered throghout the school year.
 
cpwill said:
according to the Wisconsin Department of Public Education, Teachers in 2010-2011 will "most commonly" work from Aug 30 to Nov 24, then from Nov 29 to Dec 22, then from Jan 3 to April 21, and then from April 26 to June 3.

So they are getting, it looks like, about 3 months in the summer and then another month-ish scattered throghout the school year.
Click to expand...

Are you of the opinion that they make too much money? $50k is too much for our teachers? That is the area that we need to cut to make our country right again?
 
according to the Wisconsin Department of Public Education, Teachers in 2010-2011 will "most commonly" work from Aug 30 to Nov 24, then from Nov 29 to Dec 22, then from Jan 3 to April 21, and then from April 26 to June 3.

So they are getting, it looks like, about 3 months in the summer and then another month-ish scattered throghout the school year.
Click to expand...

You think that they're not working when school isn't in session? Have you ever talked to a teacher?
 
Last edited:
cpwill said:
according to the Wisconsin Department of Public Education, Teachers in 2010-2011 will "most commonly" work from Aug 30 to Nov 24, then from Nov 29 to Dec 22, then from Jan 3 to April 21, and then from April 26 to June 3.

So they are getting, it looks like, about 3 months in the summer and then another month-ish scattered throghout the school year.
Click to expand...

No, those are the school dates. You are assuming that teachers only work while school is in. Teaching time =/= working time. When do you believe teachers do all their prep? Create their teaching materials? Do added training? Mark papers?

Sure, they do get great holidays, but they're not as great as you're making out.
 
whysoserious said:
Are you of the opinion that they make too much money? $50k is too much for our teachers? That is the area that we need to cut to make our country right again?
Click to expand...

Americans take an average of about two weeks of vacation a year. So they're not really making (say) 55K a year. they are making 55K for 9 months of work, which works out to about $83,000 a year. That strikes me as a fairly decent rate of pay to then add another 50K in non-pay compensation onto. Some probably are making more than they are worth, some are probably making less. but ANOTHER thing the Teachers Unions have effectively controlled is that they have killed any attempt to pay teachers more for performance, so we don't know.

excellent article on why they do that here

we need to cut lots of things to fix our local and state finances. the biggest ugliest of these things is the unfunded pension and health liabilities of our unionzed public employees. mandated wage hikes above the rate of inflation, politicians currying favor by setting into stone massive benefit hikes that cost no money for years leaving them able to hand off the bill to the next generation, the ugliness of unions willingly denying children an education in order to maintain their political power.

our problem isn't with teacher pay. it's with unrealistic compensation promises hammered out by public unions and weak (or bought) politicians. as a finance matter, we need to move away from the industrial-era package of defined benefits and into the modern era of defined contributions. as a structural (and governance) matter, we need to end the ability of an unelected few to grind governing functions to a halt. in Europe, we saw public sector unions shut down their nations in response to necessary austerity measures. Make no mistake, that's an attack on representative government. And those who think that somehow it won't happen here are fooling themselves.
 
Last edited:
Andalublue said:
No, those are the school dates
Click to expand...

actually i went to the charts in the links to find out when the teachers dates were. :) what i posted was the "most common" dates for teachers, though there was a section for earlier and a section for later.
 
cpwill said:
actually i went to the charts in the links to find out when the teachers dates were. :) what i posted was the "most common" dates for teachers,
Click to expand...
... yes, for teachers to be IN school. It takes no account of the work I know teachers do at home and during their 'vacations', which are not entirely free time.
 
Andalublue said:
... yes, for teachers to be IN school. It takes no account of the work I know teachers do at home and during their 'vacations', which are not entirely free time.
Click to expand...

that may be true. do you have any idea how to go about measuring that?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
You think that they're not working when school isn't in session? Have you ever talked to a teacher?
Click to expand...

Some teachers do, summer school and things like that. Some teachers work a different job for extra cash. Many just take the time off.

100k and 4 months a year off is pretty good though. Wouldn't mind that myself.
 
mac said:
Some teachers do, summer school and things like that. Some teachers work a different job for extra cash. Many just take the time off.

100k and 4 months a year off is pretty good though. Wouldn't mind that myself.
Click to expand...

Well, that's a good point. This has never been a secret. Teacher's salaries are fairly widely available information in the public domain. So, why doesn't everyone want to become a teacher if it's such an easy gig? Why has Noodle decided on selling second-hand cars if teaching is so much easier and better-paid?
 
Andalublue said:
Well, that's a good point. This has never been a secret. Teacher's salaries are fairly widely available information in the public domain. So, why doesn't everyone want to become a teacher if it's such an easy gig? Why has Noodle decided on selling second-hand cars if teaching is so much easier and better-paid?
Click to expand...

I would hazard a guess that regardless of difficulty, teaching is not for everyone. I'm reminded of an old saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
 
mac said:
I would hazard a guess that regardless of difficulty, teaching is not for everyone. I'm reminded of an old saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
Click to expand...

Well, had you been a teacher of English, you'd know that the correct quotation is: "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." It's by George Bernard Shaw, number 36 of his Maxims for Revolutionists.
 
Andalublue said:
Well, had you been a teacher of English, you'd know that the correct quotation is: "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." It's by George Bernard Shaw, number 36 of his Maxims for Revolutionists.
Click to expand...

Great, it's most often said the way I said it in the US. Common vernacular.
 
cpwill said:
Americans take an average of about two weeks of vacation a year. So they're not really making (say) 55K a year. they are making 55K for 9 months of work, which works out to about $83,000 a year. That strikes me as a fairly decent rate of pay to then add another 50K in non-pay compensation onto. Some probably are making more than they are worth, some are probably making less. but ANOTHER thing the Teachers Unions have effectively controlled is that they have killed any attempt to pay teachers more for performance, so we don't know.

excellent article on why they do that here

we need to cut lots of things to fix our local and state finances. the biggest ugliest of these things is the unfunded pension and health liabilities of our unionzed public employees. mandated wage hikes above the rate of inflation, politicians currying favor by setting into stone massive benefit hikes that cost no money for years leaving them able to hand off the bill to the next generation, the ugliness of unions willingly denying children an education in order to maintain their political power.

our problem isn't with teacher pay. it's with unrealistic compensation promises hammered out by public unions and weak (or bought) politicians. as a finance matter, we need to move away from the industrial-era package of defined benefits and into the modern era of defined contributions. as a structural (and governance) matter, we need to end the ability of an unelected few to grind governing functions to a halt. in Europe, we saw public sector unions shut down their nations in response to necessary austerity measures. Make no mistake, that's an attack on representative government. And those who think that somehow it won't happen here are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

Actually, Mathmatically it works out to be no where near that:

If X = a years worth of work, then (9/12)X = 50,000. Therefore, X = (4/3)*50,000 = 66,666.67 (it's a little more devilish but yeah).
 
cpwill said:
Americans take an average of about two weeks of vacation a year. So they're not really making (say) 55K a year. they are making 55K for 9 months of work, which works out to about $83,000 a year. That strikes me as a fairly decent rate of pay to then add another 50K in non-pay compensation onto. Some probably are making more than they are worth, some are probably making less. but ANOTHER thing the Teachers Unions have effectively controlled is that they have killed any attempt to pay teachers more for performance, so we don't know.

excellent article on why they do that here

we need to cut lots of things to fix our local and state finances. the biggest ugliest of these things is the unfunded pension and health liabilities of our unionzed public employees. mandated wage hikes above the rate of inflation, politicians currying favor by setting into stone massive benefit hikes that cost no money for years leaving them able to hand off the bill to the next generation, the ugliness of unions willingly denying children an education in order to maintain their political power.

our problem isn't with teacher pay. it's with unrealistic compensation promises hammered out by public unions and weak (or bought) politicians. as a finance matter, we need to move away from the industrial-era package of defined benefits and into the modern era of defined contributions. as a structural (and governance) matter, we need to end the ability of an unelected few to grind governing functions to a halt. in Europe, we saw public sector unions shut down their nations in response to necessary austerity measures. Make no mistake, that's an attack on representative government. And those who think that somehow it won't happen here are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!! I give the post an A+!!!!!!!!!!

BTW: I graded your post from home and on my own time. Since it seems like many are attempting to claim teachers are doing a large percentage of work from home, it is no different than what everyone on this board is doing on their own...for free!
 
Nevergolfpar said:
EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!! I give the post an A+!!!!!!!!!!

BTW: I graded your post from home and on my own time. Since it seems like many are attempting to claim teachers are doing a large percentage of work from home, it is no different than what everyone on this board is doing on their own...for free!
Click to expand...

Isn't that why you get specific tax breaks for being a teacher?
 
whysoserious said:
Actually, Mathmatically it works out to be no where near that:

If X = a years worth of work, then (9/12)X = 50,000. Therefore, X = (4/3)*50,000 = 66,666.67 (it's a little more devilish but yeah).
Click to expand...

Actually, he was basing his numbers off of $55,000 per year and not $50,000 per year. As a result that equates to an annualized salary of $73,333.33. While your math is indeed correct, the variables you used were wrong. The problem with both calculations is the fact that neither formula factors in the deferred compensation packages that these teachers are making (at least in Wisconsin) to fund retirement/pensions. On top of the $55,000 per year salary another 11% needs to be added to account for the deferred compensation package. The new math looks like this:

$55,000*1.11= $61,050 (4/3)*61,050=$81,400 based on an average teacher salary of $55,000 in the state (which admittedly I believe is high). I will post another with the real numbers, but let me do the research first....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom