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$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

really. then you're going to have to explain to me why up until the 20th Century nobody knew that it was unhealthy for an Army to camp so that people upstream were pissing in the same river that people downstream were drinking from.

but i remain correct; only when you have the excess resources can you afford things like cleaning up the environment.

We can't afford now to do it right, but later we can afford to do it over? I have heard that excuse many times, from bosses who just want to get other bosses off their backs. There is never an excuse to pollute. The waste products can be stored, it never was that difficult to do....
 
NYC takes aim at teachers' 'tenure for breathing' - USATODAY.com

According to the article, only 3.7% of eligible teachers in NYC were denied tenure, with another 7.2% getting another year of probation. In other words, you have to be REALLY awful to not get tenure. Thinking back to my own high school days, a lot less than 90% of my teachers deserved to be there...and I attended a fairly good suburban school.

That may be so in NY, IL, other northeastern union states, but not in the rest of the USA....
Heck, in AZ, if you are a bad teacher, they promote you to principal, or give you an admin job in the district office.....LOL
 
That may be so in NY, IL, other northeastern union states, but not in the rest of the USA....
Heck, in AZ, if you are a bad teacher, they promote you to principal, or give you an admin job in the district office.....LOL
Those can, do.
Those who cannot do, teach.
THose who cannot teach, teach gym.
Those who cannot teach gym, administrate.

:ninja:
 
Did every company in the 70's operate in an unethical manner?

Are there any criminals in Utah? There are....does that make everyone from Utah a criminal?

Did I say every? the 70's? it started with the industrial revolution and continued until the air and water were foul.
and yes, we have criminals in Utah, the governor and head of UDOT comes to mind, and the governor got re-elected anyway....he is a republican, and that is all that matters in Utah.
 
really. then you're going to have to explain to me why up until the 20th Century nobody knew that it was unhealthy for an Army to camp so that people upstream were pissing in the same river that people downstream were drinking from.

No, in the 20th century the technology was not around to actually do anything about it. People knew exactly what the problem was. Here, just look at the effects of a simple thing, putting sand filters into use for public water.

Nf505.jpg


Also, during the 20th century in many places in the US pollution was not a massive problem because we were by and large a wilderness. You could easily have a small town of 100 people dump their sewage directly into a river with no harm, you cannot do the same with a town of a half a million. This should come as no surprise.
 
NYC takes aim at teachers' 'tenure for breathing' - USATODAY.com

According to the article, only 3.7% of eligible teachers in NYC were denied tenure, with another 7.2% getting another year of probation. In other words, you have to be REALLY awful to not get tenure. Thinking back to my own high school days, a lot less than 90% of my teachers deserved to be there...and I attended a fairly good suburban school.

so SOME failed to get tenure.....
it's a start...
 
tell it to robert bennett

Salt Lake City, even Salt Lake County, can get some DEMS in office.....that is where the left is concentrated.
Call me crazy, but I would rather elect a loony DEM before a criminal REP.
The UDOT issue is far from dead, and I hope it keeps coming back to bite the GOP in the ass...
 
and how is that any different from the left .. with their monster being the rich, and those evil corporations ??

Lots of rich people are Democrats and leftists. Liberals love corporations which employ people and pay their fair share of taxation and are responsible community members.
 
Lots of rich people are Democrats and leftists.

Either they made their money off liberals, or they live in Hollywood.

Otherwise, not so much.

Al Gore is rich. Michael Moore is rich. Business folks who worked and received favors from Clinton or Obama are rich. I'll give you that.

You'd be hard-pressed to find self-made business folks who have earned their way to a comfortable life supporting liberal handout idiocy.
 
If the majority of the population is for the unions than my thought is that they will be OK with this move :shrug: I certainly don't have a problem with it since it is proper to do what one can when someone is attempting to remove a fundamental right.

I see. You believe it is a fundamental right to fleece the taxpayer? I am willing to wager that, like a majority on this board, most Wisconsin voters do not understand the scope these unions are willing to go to, to hide the truth from the taxpayers. Once the facts are fully digested, the average Wisconsin voter will side with the governor.
 
Either they made their money off liberals, or they live in Hollywood.

Otherwise, not so much.

Al Gore is rich. Michael Moore is rich. Business folks who worked and received favors from Clinton or Obama are rich. I'll give you that.

You'd be hard-pressed to find self-made business folks who have earned their way to a comfortable life supporting liberal handout idiocy.

Well I see the NBA players association is supporting the Wisconsin public employee unions. Those big guys have lots of $$$$$$. Members of the world champion Packers also. I do not think they work at Wal Mart saying Welcome in their off season.

I don't know of anybody who supports liberal handout idiocy. I certainly don't and some here think I am Leon Trotsky.
 
So I guess this means that you got all you information about this from watching it on MSNBC* because that is the only station a liberal watches right ?? Or maybe you got it from Media Matters another leftist only view .. it must have been one of them two .

That makes about as much sense as your statement, now doesn't it.

I got some online and from NPR, but mostly I got it from on here discussing the topic with people on here. I don't watch cable news networks.
 
I see. You believe it is a fundamental right to fleece the taxpayer? I am willing to wager that, like a majority on this board, most Wisconsin voters do not understand the scope these unions are willing to go to, to hide the truth from the taxpayers. Once the facts are fully digested, the average Wisconsin voter will side with the governor.

Business owners do, on a regular basis. My wife brought home a brochure from a company that provides audio systems to schools.
This particular company was offering home use type consumer electronics packaged in a roll around cabinet and calling it a professional sound system. They wanted $3,000 for it, which included a 3 year warranty and some training on how to use it.
I priced the items at Best Buy, and could get it all except the cabinet for about half.
We went to Guitar Center/city? and asked them what they could do for us, basically asking for a school discount. We got real professional equipment for $2700, my son and I put it together in a hundred dollar cabinet we got from another store, and delivered it to the school. The money was PTSO funds, not tax dollars, but still, the company was attempting to fleec the school district with substandard crap.
Another time my wife brought home a laptop computer. The school IT guy said it needed a new mother board and it would have to be sent out for repairs to the tune of many hundreds of dollars.. I opened it up and found a loose connection, repaired it, returned it.
Businesses that supply schools fleece the taxpayers routinely. Ignorant school employees don't know squat about the equipment they buy, and the vendors know that.
 
Business owners do, on a regular basis. My wife brought home a brochure from a company that provides audio systems to schools.
This particular company was offering home use type consumer electronics packaged in a roll around cabinet and calling it a professional sound system. They wanted $3,000 for it, which included a 3 year warranty and some training on how to use it.
I priced the items at Best Buy, and could get it all except the cabinet for about half.
We went to Guitar Center/city? and asked them what they could do for us, basically asking for a school discount. We got real professional equipment for $2700, my son and I put it together in a hundred dollar cabinet we got from another store, and delivered it to the school. The money was PTSO funds, not tax dollars, but still, the company was attempting to fleec the school district with substandard crap.
Another time my wife brought home a laptop computer. The school IT guy said it needed a new mother board and it would have to be sent out for repairs to the tune of many hundreds of dollars.. I opened it up and found a loose connection, repaired it, returned it.
Businesses that supply schools fleece the taxpayers routinely. Ignorant school employees don't know squat about the equipment they buy, and the vendors know that.

My god, I can't believe I'm about to do this, but I am going to come to the defense of the school district (possibly--I have no way of knowing if this applies to school districts or not but it does to the highly regulated company I work for).

As someone who who does the purchasing for my department in the company I work for, we are only able to order out of one catalog. This is mandated by the state, who has a whole division of enforcement officers on property. Regardless, we must purchase (state law for my company) a certain percentage of products from minority and women owed business's. The term is MBE/WBE (look it up). These catalogs are 3 inches thick full of typical office supplies and the like.

The first time I purchased from such catalogs, I was aghast at the prices! Everything was approximately double retail value. Let me give you an example of something I ordered last week for my office. A vertical filing cabinet (4 rows high, 26 inches deep)....the price $350 plus shipping. I saw the exact same cabinet at Office Depot just the other day for $119! It makes me ill every time I purchase from the MBE/WBE which I am mandated to do.

Utah I can't tell you with any degree of accuracy (because I don't know for sure) but my guess is the purchasing person at the local school district that grossly over-paid for the item, was doing her purchasing from just such a catalog.

Now follow the money...what type of political candidates do you suppose the owners of the MBE/WBE's support in elections? How much do these business owners contribute to political campaigns for various candidates to maintain their monopolies on office supplies in return for laws which mandate MBE/WBE products being purchased? Hardly a free market? My company does not complain as we just pass these costs on to the _________________ (fill in the blank--this is a test).

In other words, these politicians have created a nice little ratchet for themselves to ensure their continued election victories. In the meantime the public is being nailed with a stealth tax that no one even knows about, least of all the consumer who ends up paying the tax in the end.

Utah, my guess is what you saw with the piece of equipment was a MBE/WBE purchase out of a similar catalog. I would bet $10,000 that I am indeed correct.

If you don't believe me, ask any bar owner in the Chicagoland area how much he pays for a case of beer? He will say something like $40. But that is more a union thing and a story for another day. I do believe I did at least open your eyes a bit.

Correct answer: Customer
 
I know EXACTLY what a teacher does. I could walk into a school and have little problem on the first day doing what they do..... and thats with zero training. My good friend is a teacher.... I dated two teachers. What they do is EASY! Even my friend said "its a cake walk"!!!!
So YOU sir can not tell me otherwise!!!
Sure their job is important..... a truck drivers job is VERY important. A guy that plow the road when it snows.... THAT job is very important. A salesmans job is very important! A soildiers job is VERY important.

Your view of teachers is WRONG!!!!! Wrong wrong wrong!!!!

I have to say I'm real fascinated by this.

So let me get this right, you banged two teachers, your good friend the middle manager at 'wally world' is a teacher & because of them you KNOW you could do this in your sleep.

Being a teacher for you ain't much above working at Burger King, if I got you right, or you where banging a middle manager burger king 'teacher' and have closet longings for your best friend, anyway...

According to you basically it ain't fermented fecal matter.

so.

If that that's the case I'm sure you'll tell us what you do that is so obviously harder, more complicated, deals with people skill interactions & has a concerted plan for dealing with a long term framework for shaping young minds.

And obviously since it's so Burger King, middle manager 'easy' you'll be able to provide us with your Syllabus for how you'd teach like those money grubbing teachers of the public commons.

Right guy?

Please' informatate' us.
 
I have to say I'm real fascinated by this.

So let me get this right, you banged two teachers, your good friend the middle manager at 'wally world' is a teacher & because of them you KNOW you could do this in your sleep.

Being a teacher for you ain't much above working at Burger King, if I got you right, or you where banging a middle manager burger king 'teacher' and have closet longings for your best friend, anyway...

According to you basically it ain't fermented fecal matter.

so.

If that that's the case I'm sure you'll tell us what you do that is so obviously harder, more complicated, deals with people skill interactions & has a concerted plan for dealing with a long term framework for shaping young minds.

And obviously since it's so Burger King, middle manager 'easy' you'll be able to provide us with your Syllabus for how you'd teach like those money grubbing teachers of the public commons.

Right guy?

Please' informatate' us.

I think Noodle is a used car salesman, and not a very reputable one at that. See 'I need advice' thread in The Tavern.
 
I see. You believe it is a fundamental right to fleece the taxpayer? I am willing to wager that, like a majority on this board, most Wisconsin voters do not understand the scope these unions are willing to go to, to hide the truth from the taxpayers. Once the facts are fully digested, the average Wisconsin voter will side with the governor.

:lol:

if you say so.

However, the fundamental right is the right to association.
 
My god, I can't believe I'm about to do this, but I am going to come to the defense of the school district (possibly--I have no way of knowing if this applies to school districts or not but it does to the highly regulated company I work for).

As someone who who does the purchasing for my department in the company I work for, we are only able to order out of one catalog. This is mandated by the state, who has a whole division of enforcement officers on property. Regardless, we must purchase (state law for my company) a certain percentage of products from minority and women owed business's. The term is MBE/WBE (look it up). These catalogs are 3 inches thick full of typical office supplies and the like.

The first time I purchased from such catalogs, I was aghast at the prices! Everything was approximately double retail value. Let me give you an example of something I ordered last week for my office. A vertical filing cabinet (4 rows high, 26 inches deep)....the price $350 plus shipping. I saw the exact same cabinet at Office Depot just the other day for $119! It makes me ill every time I purchase from the MBE/WBE which I am mandated to do.

Utah I can't tell you with any degree of accuracy (because I don't know for sure) but my guess is the purchasing person at the local school district that grossly over-paid for the item, was doing her purchasing from just such a catalog.

Now follow the money...what type of political candidates do you suppose the owners of the MBE/WBE's support in elections? How much do these business owners contribute to political campaigns for various candidates to maintain their monopolies on office supplies in return for laws which mandate MBE/WBE products being purchased? Hardly a free market? My company does not complain as we just pass these costs on to the _________________ (fill in the blank--this is a test).

In other words, these politicians have created a nice little ratchet for themselves to ensure their continued election victories. In the meantime the public is being nailed with a stealth tax that no one even knows about, least of all the consumer who ends up paying the tax in the end.

Utah, my guess is what you saw with the piece of equipment was a MBE/WBE purchase out of a similar catalog. I would bet $10,000 that I am indeed correct.

If you don't believe me, ask any bar owner in the Chicagoland area how much he pays for a case of beer? He will say something like $40. But that is more a union thing and a story for another day. I do believe I did at least open your eyes a bit.

Correct answer: Customer

My experiences are in Utah and Idaho, which are not like Illinois. The political/criminal element hasn't entirely taken over the western states yet.
I would expect that very large purchases have to go out for bids, whether here or in your state.
Smaller purchases are likely the only difference.
OTOH, if politics and unions weren't involved, it is likely the corruption would just be done at a more local level. On the news last week we heard that a group was formed, using money from several school districts, that was supposed to find ways to improve education in those school districts. Much of the money was spent lavishly on seminars out of state. They basically vacationed at resorts, dining well, playing golf, etc. at taxpayer expense.
We need to prosecute these kinds of actions.
 
Has anyone provided some comparisons yet to show how the non-monetary aspects of the salaries compare to others, and/or how the dollar value was figured?
 
Our society is ill and needs treatment, and all you want to do is crucify the one profession that benefits us the most.

I'm not on the let's bash teacher's band wagon, but I'm not a teacher's best friend either.

I think in rural areas, schools are just fine. In urban areas, there is a definite problem. Bad teachers get left on the payroll for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is a teacher shortage in these areas. You can't deny that problem students get pushed through the school system, but I won't deny that bad students aren't necessarily the schools fault.

Other problems I have with the school systems are willingness to contradict moral teachings of parents while hiding behind church and state and failing to push performance standards.
 
I'm not on the let's bash teacher's band wagon, but I'm not a teacher's best friend either.

I think in rural areas, schools are just fine. In urban areas, there is a definite problem. Bad teachers get left on the payroll for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is a teacher shortage in these areas. You can't deny that problem students get pushed through the school system, but I won't deny that bad students aren't necessarily the schools fault.

Other problems I have with the school systems are willingness to contradict moral teachings of parents while hiding behind church and state and failing to push performance standards.

Our teacher son is preparing to become an asst. principal, getting his credentials, and interning. He agrees that some teachers need to go. It isn't always easy to get rid of marginal teachers, certainly not as easy as getting rid of truly bad teachers.
How are moral teachings being contradicted? What morals are we talking about?
 
The thing is though that people are siding with the unions and not with the governer, so it appears the target is on his back, not theirs.

people are siding with the word "rights". ask them if they support limiting collective bargaining rights and they will tell you no. ask them if they support turning Wisconsin into a right to work state and they will tell you yes.

Mitch Daniels pulled a similar measure (though on top of it he also reformed the states' healthcare system to provide HSA's for public employees), also faced diving poll numbers, and then won reelection by 18 points in 2008, picking up 20% of the black vote against a ticket headed by Barack Obama.

i'm not worried about Walker, Wisconsin Governor.
 
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We can't afford now to do it right, but later we can afford to do it over? I have heard that excuse many times, from bosses who just want to get other bosses off their backs. There is never an excuse to pollute.

sure there is. subsistence level farming, for example, often depended on damaging slash-and-burn. the excuse there is that you don't have the spare labor and you dont' want to starve to death.
 
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