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Rich-Poor gap widening

apdst said:
Oil and gas royalties bring in $6 billion in revenues to the government every year. That's just royalties. That doesn't include payroll taxes, income taxes, etc. Plus th taxes generated from the hundreds of thousands of jobs created all over the country.
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And if they paid the same tax rates as the middle class, we would not be so much in debt. But who cares about our National debt, right? The oil companies salute you soldier! :sun
 
Catawba said:
And if they paid the same tax rates as the middle class, we would not be so much in debt. But who cares about our National debt, right? The oil companies salute you soldier! :sun
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Oil companies pay materially more in taxes worldwide than someone in the middle class. But it is not as much fun using facts as tired party lines.
 
washunut said:
Oil companies pay materially more in taxes worldwide than someone in the middle class. But it is not as much fun using facts as tired party lines.
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"Oil production is one of the most heavily subsidized businesses in America, with tax breaks available at almost every stage of the exploration and extraction process, according to an analysis by The New York Times. The tax breaks average about $4 billion a year, based on various government reports, and are preserved by the oil industry's massive political influence.

The many subsidies in BP's (BP) disastrous Deepwater Horizon drilling venture, which resulted in the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history, are typical. Transocean (RIG), the owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform, registered the rig in the Marshall Islands, where it is subject to lower taxes and less stringent safety regulations. The company moved its corporate headquarters overseas from Houston in 1999, saving $1.8 billion in taxes in its years abroad. It is headquartered in Switzerland now, where it has far fewer employees than in Houston.

BP also gained huge tax benefits in leasing the Deepwater Horizon rig, writing off 70% of the platform's rent -- a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began, according to a letter sent to the Senate Finance Committee.

Paying Much Lower Taxes Than Virtually Any Other Industry

The Times reports: "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

For many small and midsize oil businesses, the tax on capital investments is so low that their returns on them are often higher after taxes than before.

The government is now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the enormous Gulf oil spill cleanup. This, and attempts to curb the oil industry's tax breaks, are likely to encounter fierce opposition in Congress. The Times reports that the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending.

The oil industry claims that cutting the subsidies and tax breaks threatens jobs and oil production. But a Treasury Department economist cited in 2009 a study that found oil prices and potential profits were so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease U.S. output by less than 0.5%."

See full article from DailyFinance: Oil Companies Reap Billions in U.S. Subsidies and Tax Breaks - DailyFinance
 
Catawba said:
And if they paid the same tax rates as the middle class, we would not be so much in debt. But who cares about our National debt, right? The oil companies salute you soldier! :sun
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:) and if we hadn't chased them overseas with the second highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.... then they might!
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: the poor have been getting wealthier, and the wealthy have been getting wealthier faster. as could be predicted; the easier it becomes for someone to build wealth, the more those who are better at doing so will achieve.


but remind me again - why should i care?
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you care enough to make repeated posts in a thread titled: Rich-Poor gap widening
 
i don't understand why i am supposed to. i know that many consider this a big deal, but all i can get from it is jealousy.
 
cpwill said:
:) and if we hadn't chased them overseas with the second highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.... then they might!
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I would like to see your facts that 9% is higher than the rest of the developed world.
 
Catawba said:
"Oil production is one of the most heavily subsidized businesses in America, with tax breaks available at almost every stage of the exploration and extraction process, according to an analysis by The New York Times. The tax breaks average about $4 billion a year, based on various government reports, and are preserved by the oil industry's massive political influence.

The many subsidies in BP's (BP) disastrous Deepwater Horizon drilling venture, which resulted in the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history, are typical. Transocean (RIG), the owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform, registered the rig in the Marshall Islands, where it is subject to lower taxes and less stringent safety regulations. The company moved its corporate headquarters overseas from Houston in 1999, saving $1.8 billion in taxes in its years abroad. It is headquartered in Switzerland now, where it has far fewer employees than in Houston.

BP also gained huge tax benefits in leasing the Deepwater Horizon rig, writing off 70% of the platform's rent -- a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began, according to a letter sent to the Senate Finance Committee.

Paying Much Lower Taxes Than Virtually Any Other Industry

The Times reports: "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

For many small and midsize oil businesses, the tax on capital investments is so low that their returns on them are often higher after taxes than before.

The government is now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the enormous Gulf oil spill cleanup. This, and attempts to curb the oil industry's tax breaks, are likely to encounter fierce opposition in Congress. The Times reports that the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending.

The oil industry claims that cutting the subsidies and tax breaks threatens jobs and oil production. But a Treasury Department economist cited in 2009 a study that found oil prices and potential profits were so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease U.S. output by less than 0.5%."

See full article from DailyFinance: Oil Companies Reap Billions in U.S. Subsidies and Tax Breaks - DailyFinance
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It saddens me to read posts like the above. That is because it shows the lack of financial education in America. People moving their businesses OUT of the U.S. is not because we make it cheap with tax advantages, it is to avoid taxes and regulations, so even in that your thinking seems convoluted.

Taking rent as a business expense is not exclusive to the oil industry, it is a deductable expense in every business I know of.

It would be great if people understood some of the basic workings of an income statement and a cash flow anlaysis in America. It would be harder for biased reporting to pull the wool over the public's eyes.
 
Catawba said:
And if they paid the same tax rates as the middle class, we would not be so much in debt. But who cares about our National debt, right? The oil companies salute you soldier! :sun
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Have you come with anything other than an oped to prove they pay a lower rate than someone in the middle class? Last time I checked, corporations don't qualify for the earned income credit.
 
washunut said:
It saddens me to read posts like the above. That is because it shows the lack of financial education in America. People moving their businesses OUT of the U.S. is not because we make it cheap with tax advantages, it is to avoid taxes and regulations, so even in that your thinking seems convoluted.

Taking rent as a business expense is not exclusive to the oil industry, it is a deductable expense in every business I know of.

It would be great if people understood some of the basic workings of an income statement and a cash flow anlaysis in America. It would be harder for biased reporting to pull the wool over the public's eyes.
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That's right. 100% deductable. It's why oil companies rent oil rigs vice own them, because the note on the loan isn't 100% deductable, the way that the rent is.
 
cpwill said:
yup; and at the federal level i'm against it.



yup; and at all levels i'm against it.



agreed. and i'm generally against that too, but it depends more on the situation.
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why only at the federal level?
 
Boo Radley said:
How has government done this?
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When Reagan dropped the top income tax down from 70 to 39 percent (back in the thirties it was 92 percent), manufacturing prospered and the national debt tripled. Unfortunately, very little of the extra money trickled down to the workers, and more and more manufacturing has gone over seas.

The windfall also paid for developing robots and other time saving devises that eliminated thousands of workers, and financed overseas manufacturing which put thousands more out on the street.

ricksfolly
 
washunut said:
It saddens me to read posts like the above. That is because it shows the lack of financial education in America. People moving their businesses OUT of the U.S. is not because we make it cheap with tax advantages, it is to avoid taxes and regulations, so even in that your thinking seems convoluted.

Taking rent as a business expense is not exclusive to the oil industry, it is a deductable expense in every business I know of.

It would be great if people understood some of the basic workings of an income statement and a cash flow anlaysis in America. It would be harder for biased reporting to pull the wool over the public's eyes.
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So because our corporations are willing to sell out their country to utilize slave wages and avoid paying their fair share in this country, you feel it is the patriotic duty of the middle class to pay more taxes so that corporations might pay less?
 
apdst said:
Have you come with anything other than an oped to prove they pay a lower rate than someone in the middle class? Last time I checked, corporations don't qualify for the earned income credit.
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Yes. It was referenced in the article you didn't read. "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

"the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending."
 
Catawba said:
Yes. It was referenced in the article you didn't read. "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

"the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending."
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That's so vague, it doesn't make any sense. Think about it, "drilling equipment is taxed at 9%". What's that even mean?

Be that as it may, those taxes still generated $6 billion in revenues to the government. How does that compare to the revenues that are brought in by green companies? Hmm?

Post Script: notice the past tense.
 
apdst said:
That's so vague, it doesn't make any sense. Think about it, "drilling equipment is taxed at 9%". What's that even mean?
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Just what it said, Capital Investments. Drilling equipment and oil field leases were given as examples.

Be that as it may, those taxes still generated $6 billion in revenues to the government. How does that compare to the revenues that are brought in by green companies? Hmm?
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Not as many billions as it would be if they were taxed at what the rest of us are, and more importantly not enough to pay our bills which mean that you and I and our future offspring pick up the tab.
 
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Grant said:
So you belive that BHO and his Party are making the poor richer, is that right?
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They're modestly impeding the GOP from making the poor poorer.
 
Catawba said:
Just what it said, Capital Investments. Drilling equipment and oil field leases were given as examples.
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Capital investments are taxed? :lamo



Not as many billions as it would be if they were taxed at what the rest of us are
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They're taxed more than the rest of us. Hate to break it to yuz.


more importantly not enough to pay our bills which mean that you and I and our future offspring pick up the tab.
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Oh? So, what was your tax bill last last year?
 
SE102 said:
Oh, no I understood quite well. Do you need your binky? Maybe respond to the things I say instead of freaking out about how you don't get enough from the government? Maybe a nice bullet train? Public malls and subways made of marble? Well adjusted people of all classes you can get along with?




LMFAO i cant contain myself.
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of course you cannot-

. I don't get anything extra-so why should I subsidize you being able to pay less taxes? that the three biggest tax hike fanatics on this board thanked your post is pretty amusing.
 
Catawba said:
So because our corporations are willing to sell out their country to utilize slave wages and avoid paying their fair share in this country, you feel it is the patriotic duty of the middle class to pay more taxes so that corporations might pay less?
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Oh the luddite drama!!!
 
Taxing capital investments! :lamo

I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing at that one!
 
Catawba said:
So because our corporations are willing to sell out their country to utilize slave wages and avoid paying their fair share in this country, you feel it is the patriotic duty of the middle class to pay more taxes so that corporations might pay less?
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not at all. I think I can generally speak for the conservatives on this forum in saying that we want the middle class to pay less and the corporations to pay less - or preferably nothing at all.
 
cpwill said:
not at all. I think I can generally speak for the conservatives on this forum in saying that we want the middle class to pay less and the corporations to pay less - or preferably nothing at all.
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The old trickle down mentality is still out there alive and well. People are still waiting 30 years for the trickle down while those making over $1 million continue, year after year, to continue to enjoy their average $91,000 dollar tax break. How much has your annual tax break been?
 
Catawba said:
The old trickle down mentality is still out there alive and well. People are still waiting 30 years for the trickle down while those making over $1 million continue, year after year, to continue to enjoy their average $91,000 dollar tax break. How much has your annual tax break been?
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it's been plenty good to me, i plowed my tax savings straight into savings and never missed it :)

but you seemed to miss the part where i said i wanted to reduce the tax burden on the middle class?
 
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