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Rich-Poor gap widening

SE102 said:
Yeah Fox news is like a stream of pure retardation to me... that sounds half the people in america. Weird, that.
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Of all the things to talk about in this thread, you bring up Fox News? You're really obsessed with that channel, aren't you?
 
Mach said:
That's complete bull****. Their middle class is growing so much you can google all day and never get to the end of discussion of the booming growth. It's on every radio, every station, every TV at some point or another. How are you peddling this nonsnese? It's like you're a flat-earther or something, christ.

Creating a more capitalist market and opening open foreign investment (capitalist investment) has done the exact ****ing opposite of the crap you are spewing.
The fact is ENORMOUS numbers of people are being lifted out of poverty into middle and upper class. Historically unprescedented numbers.
The fact is that some who remain poor, remain poor. <- DUR
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Where are you talking about? China or here? Here, Census data shows us that more and more of the middle class have been slipping into poverty. 1 in 7 Americans are now officially poor.
 
phattonez said:
Why not look at the way income has been changing for the 75th quartile and 25th quartile of the nation? Because that group, which is the best definition of the middle class, has seen tremendous growth. Not that the data really means anything anyway, other than that as a whole our nation is becoming richer, not that some mythical middle class is growing.
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Because we were discussing the middle class, not the upper class.
 
Catawba said:
Because we were discussing the middle class, not the upper class.
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The IQR of income is the upper class? Statistics has really changed since the last time I took it then.
 
Catawba said:
Where are you talking about? China or here? Here, Census data shows us that more and more of the middle class have been slipping into poverty. 1 in 7 Americans are now officially poor.
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The response quoted was China.

But we also had the same results in the U.S. Our economy is much slower now having reached a relative equilibrium. That is, now that people are relatively free to pursue whatever they want, you won't be seeing the meteroic rise of the middle class that we have now in China and India, that we had in the U.S. years back.

How do you boost a slow economy? You engage in business in the growing markets. How do we do that? Capitalism.
If you want to grow the economy and provide more opportunity and prosperity for everyone and anyone, you grow. All capitalism does is help maximize whatever growth potential there is.

Being reasonable, the fallacies you are making (or the sources you cite are making) are:
1. comparing lowest poor to highest wealthy.
in a healthy economy this distance should be *as large as possible*.

2. using income brackets as a class structure
*people routinely move up and down the income brackets, most notably being poor in their teens early twenties, and negative income in retirement. And, according to CBO, besides these typical swings, there are routine changes in incomes during all periods.

Historically there can be no real debate that capitalism is a wildly positive force in terms of lifting people out of poverty, growing a middle class, and maximizing freedom.
 
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phattonez said:
Then let's say that they are not working even when the opportunity is provided to them.
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Some are not. As to why, we don't know.

Then I would ask you to come forward with your own data in response. You've had plenty of opportunities but all you've given is your opinions. That and $5 won't even get me a cup of coffee.
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Data like what? I can't think of any data that would prove it any way. Do you know of any study into reasons why? I don't. But we can't assign reasons without doing something that addresses the reasoning.
 
Mach said:
The response quoted was China.

But we also had the same results in the U.S. Our economy is much slower now having reached a relative equilibrium. That is, now that people are relatively free to pursue whatever they want, you won't be seeing the meteroic rise of the middle class that we have now in China and India, that we had in the U.S. years back.

How do you boost a slow economy? You engage in business in the growing markets. How do we do that? Capitalism.
If you want to grow the economy and provide more opportunity and prosperity for everyone and anyone, you grow. All capitalism does is help maximize whatever growth potential there is.
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You mean cutting the taxes for the wealthy and deregulating? That is what has brought us to where we are today?

Being reasonable, the fallacies you are making (or the sources you cite are making) are:
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Do you mean the Census statistics?

1. comparing lowest poor to highest wealthy.
in a healthy economy this distance should be *as large as possible*.
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Like in China?

2. using income brackets as a class structure
*people routinely move up and down the income brackets, most notably being poor in their teens early twenties, and negative income in retirement. And, according to CBO, besides these typical swings, there are routine changes in incomes during all periods.
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For the last decade they have been moving in one direction, down.

Historically there can be no real debate that capitalism is a wildly positive force in terms of lifting people out of poverty, growing a middle class, and maximizing freedom.
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I have no problem with a properly regulated capitalist market with progressive taxation as we had in this country during its most prosperous time.
This what we need to return to.
 
Catawba said:
Ha! Opinion over facts? Not for me my friend!
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What helps you to remain comfortable. I know serious contestation can cause serious doubt. If denial's the best way to avoid the issue, then more power to you.
 
Boo Radley said:
Data like what? I can't think of any data that would prove it any way. Do you know of any study into reasons why? I don't. But we can't assign reasons without doing something that addresses the reasoning.
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I doesn't matter why they are not. The fact is that the opportunity is provided to them and they choose not to work anyway. Should we really be concerned about the contribution that these people add to unemployment?
 
phattonez said:
I know serious contestation can cause serious doubt.
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Yeah, I've been waiting for that and all I get is unsubstantiated opinion.
 
Catawba said:
Grant said:
I would say the first place to start would be on the waste identified by the GAO, then we need to examine how our social programs can be modified to make them more sustainable, then lock those funds from being used to offset other government costs, reduce the size and spending of our military, then equitably set the tax rates to provide the income necessary to pay our bills. with enough left over to begin paying down our debt.
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The first chore will take years to resolve and it may take a Constitutional Amendment to make any progress. It is not possible for government to maintain any social programs simply because their first priority is getting elected and will thus never make the difficult decisions. We should know that by now.

You mean I should throw the word fascist around like the way people throw the word communism around?
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You should never use any political terms unless they are appropriate to the occasion. And of course my meaning was quite clear and shouldn't need an explanation..

Agreed. As Warren Buffett noted, "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning."
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It sounds as though Warren was trying to be clever, but yes the rich will always tend to be rich because they know how to make money. That secret seems to elude many people. They seem to think the government can make them rich.
Governments are the problem? Not the people we elect to run it? So your plan is to have no government?
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Certainly the people who were stupid enough to vote for Barrack Obama were part of the problem, but let's hope they won;t make that mistake twice.

How do you feel my plan is to have no government? Whatever gave you that idea? You really must respond to what's in front of you rather than drifting off into some dream-state only you inhabit.
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Catawba said:
Yeah, I've been waiting for that and all I get is unsubstantiated opinion.
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Maybe you should look at the links I've posted then. Plenty of facts that you're conviently ignoring such as the CBO data.
 
The Prof said:
LOL!

says the unreal revolutionary whose ratio of posts to links is a hundred to one

48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions
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Oh you finally found a conservative poll that says what you want. Congratulations! Now you have one out of 4 polls that show what you want. And the biggest poll will be in November of next year, when we choose between the party that represents the working class and the party that represents corporate greed.
 
phattonez said:
Maybe you should look at the links I've posted then. Plenty of facts that you're conviently ignoring such as the CBO data.
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LOL! Like I'm going on another wild goose chase of yours. If you have facts, post them. I'm not doing your work for you.
 
haymarket said:
rasmussen........ an outlier as usual.
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so you cherry pick your polls?

LOL!

did you see that nyt/cbs questioned TWENTY PERCENT union households?

why did CUOMO take such a hard line?

didn't he see your survey?
 
mainstream michael moore on the monied

"They're sitting on the money, they're using it for their own -- they're putting it someplace else with no interest in helping you with your life, with that money. We've allowed them to take that. That's not theirs, that's a national resource, that's ours.
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Real Clear Politics - Video

LOL!

catchya at the precincts, comrades

bring the bolsheviks
 
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Michael Moore is a nut-job. I think we can all agree on that.
 
Catawba said:
LOL! Like I'm going on another wild goose chase of yours. If you have facts, post them. I'm not doing your work for you.
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The post is right there for you to read.

phattonez said:
What conjecture? You never directly responded to the real data I showed about income inequality. Don't try to back out of an argument and say I offerred nothing when you refuse to deal with what I presented.

Here again is real data from real professors looking at the issue.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...rich-poor-gap-widening-14.html#post1059309268

Your link was just opinion, there was no real data in there.

And here's the problem with following income data in the first place.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/81991-following-income-some-problems.html

I'll just wait here for some real responses.
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Catawba said:
You mean cutting the taxes for the wealthy and deregulating? That is what has brought us to where we are today?
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Sure, and considering we're the current most prosperous nation in the world, and one of the highest in terms of law and order, human rights, and standard of living, I'd say it's a no-brainer.

Like in China?
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Absolutely, like in China. It's growing, as China improves. It will continue to grow, and when it peaks, they will start to also reach some sort of equillibrium.
In China's case, they will likely become the most wealthy nation on Earth. And it will have lifted more people out of poverty and into middle/upper class than any other single nation in history.

For the last decade they have been moving in one direction, down.
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All data we've posted shows otherwise. The U.S. showed the world what a middle class is, and doing similar things the developing nations are likewise seeing "a meteoric rise" in middle class, living standards, etc. All contrary to your half-hearted claims otherwise. Serously, why are you debating this, it's embarassing.

I have no problem with a properly regulated capitalist market with progressive taxation as we had in this country during its most prosperous time.This what we need to return to.
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I forget the liberal notion of propserity. Sieze the earnings of the best, and give it out to the worst, and take a snapshot and show that income is fairly well distributed and call it "prospering". Be serious.
 
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