• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why would you exclude educators with Master and PHD degrees? I already did show this in my link to the census data. Perhaps you should actually read it this time.

Hello? Catawba?? Tell me what the average Wisconsin teacher with a Master's or a PhD makes and we can have a discussion about it.
 
Hello? Catawba?? Tell me what the average Wisconsin teacher with a Master's or a PhD makes and we can have a discussion about it.

It was included in the total average for educators in Wisconsin - approximately $50,000.
 
It was included in the total average for educators in Wisconsin - approximately $50,000.

No, it was not. Those with advanced degrees were figured in the average, but the average does not reflect the average of those teachers with advanced degrees -- it reflects the average of all teachers...advanced degree or no.

Here's something else I found:

FACT: Wisconsin teachers are paid an average salary of $51,000. Annualized to account for their 180-day work year, that’s $68,000, and that is in addition to their very fine benefits, pensions, and job security. The median household income — that is, total household income, including households with two or more earners — was $49,993 in 2009 in Wisconsin. Therefore, after adjusting for the different work years — and not including teachers’ unusually generous benefits — a typical single Wisconsin teacher earns 36 percent more than the typical Wisconsin home.
Wisconsin Myths and Facts - Matthew Shaffer - National Review Online

Give it up, Catawba. Just give it up.
 
No, it was not. Those with advanced degrees were figured in the average, but the average does not reflect the average of those teachers with advanced degrees -- it reflects the average of all teachers...advanced degree or no.

Here's something else I found:

Wisconsin Myths and Facts - Matthew Shaffer - National Review Online

Give it up, Catawba. Just give it up.

I'd say your source is biased:

National Review and National Review Online are America’s most widely read and influential magazine and website for Republican/conservative news, commentary and opinion. Both the magazine and website provide insightful and incomparable coverage of today’s — and tomorrow’s — most important political, economic, social, and cultural issues and trends.

National Review and National Review Online are the benchmark vehicles for reaching those Republicans/conservatives who lead and shape opinion on all the important issues.

Source
 
I'd say your source is biased:

National Review and National Review Online are America’s most widely read and influential magazine and website for Republican/conservative news, commentary and opinion. Both the magazine and website provide insightful and incomparable coverage of today’s — and tomorrow’s — most important political, economic, social, and cultural issues and trends.

National Review and National Review Online are the benchmark vehicles for reaching those Republicans/conservatives who lead and shape opinion on all the important issues.

Source

I see your point. However, just because a source has the possibility of being biased, doesn't mean everything it prints is untrue....

FACT: Wisconsin teachers are paid an average salary of $51,000. Annualized to account for their 180-day work year, that’s $68,000, and that is in addition to their very fine benefits, pensions, and job security. The median household income — that is, total household income, including households with two or more earners — was $49,993 in 2009 in Wisconsin. Therefore, after adjusting for the different work years — and not including teachers’ unusually generous benefits — a typical single Wisconsin teacher earns 36 percent more than the typical Wisconsin home.

It is true that they make an average of $51K. It is true they work 180 days a year. It is true that extrapolates to $68K in the private sector. It is true that this $51K doesn't include their Rolls Royce benefit plans and the value of tenure.

What is not true (according to the U.S. Census Bureau) is that Wisconsin's household income is $49,993. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, it is actually $52,103. Wisconsin QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau -- not a very material error since that still means that the average teacher by his/herself makes 32% more than the state's median household income.
 
I see your point. However, just because a source has the possibility of being biased, doesn't mean everything it prints is untrue....

No of course not. For example, I use to read the NYT and I know that they have a bias, but that doesn't mean I dismissed what they said. I was just bringing up the point that, while they are no doubt a reputable source, one must always be on guard for possible bias.
 
FACT: Wisconsin teachers are paid an average salary of $51,000. Annualized to account for their 180-day work year, that’s $68,000, and that is in addition to their very fine benefits, pensions, and job security. The median household income — that is, total household income, including households with two or more earners — was $49,993 in 2009 in Wisconsin. Therefore, after adjusting for the different work years — and not including teachers’ unusually generous benefits — a typical single Wisconsin teacher earns 36 percent more than the typical Wisconsin home.

How many times... in lord knows how many threads ... by how many different people ... does the same crap have to be flushed before it stays down?

Please read this so this can be put to rest.

http://www.cows.org/pdf/bp-WIpublicsectorcompensation.pdf
 
Last edited:
How many times... in lord knows how many threads ... by how many different people ... does the same crap have to be flushed before it stays down?

Please read this so this can be put to rest.

http://www.cows.org/pdf/bp-WIpublicsectorcompensation.pdf

This is just another source on the internet, Haymarket. I know you think it should be taken as be-all-end-all, but quite obviously, it isn't. Stop trying to tell us that cows is another way to spell god.
 
This is just another source on the internet, Haymarket. I know you think it should be taken as be-all-end-all, but quite obviously, it isn't. Stop trying to tell us that cows is another way to spell god.

Maggie - be honest here please. This is the study you attempted to blast because you found fault with it. Then you admitted they were right. So what is wrong with it now?
 
Maggie - be honest here please. This is the study you attempted to blast because you found fault with it. Then you admitted they were right. So what is wrong with it now?

No-no-no. I called the study out because it said the pension plan was in great shape....and later found I was incorrect. Haymarket, I can do the math myself -- from U.S. Census Data. And I did it above. Jeffrey Keefe has concluded (if you click on his report) that public sector employees throughout the country are underpaid when compared to the private sector. How could anyone believe that? Where is the methodology? Where are links to US Census Bureau Data?

I'm not buying it. Doesn't pass the MaggieD Test. Sorry.
 
We aren't talking about Masters and PhD degrees. We're talking about the average of Wisconsin teachers' salaries across the board. You have absolutely no reference to what a Wisconsin teacher with a MA or PhD earns. If you do, post it up. You can't just make stuff up to fit your opinion, Catawba.

Edit: As to Wiki referencing the U.S. Census Bureau, then, my friend, you should have, too. Wiki is inherently unreliable. Could have been written by a Wisconsin teacher. ;-)


Perhaps I can help Maggie.:2wave:

Public and private pay comparison by education in Wisconsin,
Unadjusted for other variables

High school, private sector = 47,469 Public sector= 46,213

Some college, private sector = 50,324 Public sector=46,707

Associate’s, private sector = 59,043 public sector= 56,561

Bachelor’s private sector = 82,134 public sector= 61,668

Professional degree private sector = 225,644 public sector=143,569

Masters private sector = 100,296 public sector= 74,056

Doctorate private sector= 128,306 public sector=91,623
 
It was included in the total average for educators in Wisconsin - approximately $50,000.

$5,000 including the BAD ONES and the no good for nothing educators, why?? because they have to earn the same wages, why?? because they belong to the union. How does this help our children??? Weed out the bad ones or fire them, but NO.... you can't fire them because they belong to the union.
 
Perhaps I can help Maggie.:2wave:

Public and private pay comparison by education in Wisconsin,
Unadjusted for other variables

High school, private sector = 47,469 Public sector= 46,213

Some college, private sector = 50,324 Public sector=46,707

Associate’s, private sector = 59,043 public sector= 56,561

Bachelor’s private sector = 82,134 public sector= 61,668

Professional degree private sector = 225,644 public sector=143,569

Masters private sector = 100,296 public sector= 74,056

Doctorate private sector= 128,306 public sector=91,623

Perhaps you are just behind the curve here on this thread, Donc. 'Cause I know how much time it took to make your post. Further up this thread, you'll see a link to the U.S. Census Bureau that blows your numbers out of the water. (I think it's this thread....it's one of 'em....)
 
Last edited:
ANYBODY... SOMEBODY!!!
The state of Wisconsin can't afford the HIGH benefits and the HIGH pay of ANY union employee anymore. The state is BROKE thanks to the previous Liberal governors who can't manage anything without spending BIG amounts of money, Obama is a perfect example! The USA has no more money, we are broke!
 
Last edited:
Perhaps you are just behind the curve here on this thread, Donc. 'Cause I know how much time it took to make your post. Further up this thread, you'll see a link to the U.S. Census Bureau that blows your numbers out of the water. (I think it's this thread....it's one of 'em....)



I guess i will have to go take a peek at it, in the mean time check this link and see what you think of it.

Oh, by the way, if i happen to stumble over some other government data,on my meandering thru the internet's that refutes your position; would you finally admit that you were wrong? :2wave:



<This paper investigates whether Wisconsin public employees are overpaid at the expense of Wisconsin taxpayers. The
research is timely. Newly sworn-in Gov. Scott Walker believes that public employee compensation must be cut to make
it comparable to private sector pay at the state, local, and school levels. Walker is promoting public employee pay cuts,
changes in collective bargaining laws, major benefits reductions, and a possible decertification of public employee unions
as the antidote to the alleged overpayment of public employees in Wisconsin and the key to reducing the state’s budget
deficit (Bergquist and Stein 2010). >



Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated?
 
Last edited:
I guess i will have to go take a peek at it, in the mean time check this link and see what you think of it.

Oh, by the way, if i happen to stumble over some other government data,on my meandering thru the internet's that refutes your position; would you finally admit that you were wrong? :2wave:

Well, of course, it would depend on the data. But I'm not one who can't admit I'm wrong...

Don't forget to take their bennies into account. The public sector has some of the finest pension plans on the planet. If you show me with government data that shows that Wisconsin public school teachers are underpaid as compared to their educational equivalents in the private sector, taking into account the difference in hours and their benefits, I will admit I am wrong about that. :)

I think you have your work cut out for you; mainly because the school teacher data is very difficult to come by. It is not easily available to the public.

Edit: Oh, by the way, I hate "Oh, by the ways." Makes me think you're going to slam me with a link as soon as I post. :rofl
 
Last edited:
It has just been announced republican state sen Dale Schultz no longer backing bill according to a tweet i just got.Hope its true
 
Well, of course, it would depend on the data. But I'm not one who can't admit I'm wrong...

Don't forget to take their bennies into account. The public sector has some of the finest pension plans on the planet. If you show me with government data that shows that Wisconsin public school teachers are underpaid as compared to their educational equivalents in the private sector, taking into account the difference in hours and their benefits, I will admit I am wrong about that. :)

I think you have your work cut out for you; mainly because the school teacher data is very difficult to come by. It is not easily available to the public.

Edit: Oh, by the way, I hate "Oh, by the ways." Makes me think you're going to slam me with a link as soon as I post. :rofl

Nah, I wouldn’t pull a Columbo on ya Maggie…besides, all I have to do is tell you that the link that I provideds data comes from BLS.GOV. Just hopen that you don’t make me drag me weary bones over there and confirm it. :mrgreen:
 
Perhaps I can help Maggie.:2wave:

Public and private pay comparison by education in Wisconsin,
Unadjusted for other variables

High school, private sector = 47,469 Public sector= 46,213

Some college, private sector = 50,324 Public sector=46,707

Associate’s, private sector = 59,043 public sector= 56,561

Bachelor’s private sector = 82,134 public sector= 61,668

Professional degree private sector = 225,644 public sector=143,569

Masters private sector = 100,296 public sector= 74,056

Doctorate private sector= 128,306 public sector=91,623

This means nothing if you do not look at each career field.
 
It has just been announced republican state sen Dale Schultz no longer backing bill according to a tweet i just got.Hope its true

Explain why it is okay to freeze federal union wages but this in Wisconsin is so bad. Sounds like total partisan politics to me
 
This means nothing if you do not look at each career field.

ouch that is sort of a serious bitch slap on some of the "citations" we have seen thrown arond
 
No-no-no. I called the study out because it said the pension plan was in great shape....and later found I was incorrect. Haymarket, I can do the math myself -- from U.S. Census Data. And I did it above. Jeffrey Keefe has concluded (if you click on his report) that public sector employees throughout the country are underpaid when compared to the private sector. How could anyone believe that? Where is the methodology? Where are links to US Census Bureau Data?

I'm not buying it. Doesn't pass the MaggieD Test. Sorry.

Paul Simon wrote in THE BOXER

"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

I see it applies to a woman also.

It is a sad indictment on the USA today when a self imposed ideological belief system trumps fact and data. Very sad for all of us.
 
ouch that is sort of a serious bitch slap on some of the "citations" we have seen thrown arond

Written by someone who would know having been on the receiving of many a bitch slap right here on these pages.
 
Written by someone who would know having been on the receiving of many a bitch slap right here on these pages.

Still waiting for a response to what is preventing Federal Public Union employees from having the same rights as Wisconsin public union employees. I wouldn't be talking about someone else being bitch slapped. Looks to me like Turtle has handled you quite well.
 
Still waiting for a response to what is preventing Federal Public Union employees from having the same rights as Wisconsin public union employees. I wouldn't be talking about someone else being bitch slapped. Looks to me like Turtle has handled you quite well.

You had your answer earlier in the day. The reality is that you do not understand the difference between levels of government and separation of powers. The fact that you do not accept it is your problem. Not mine.

And you really need to go back and read. It was your buddy Turtle who brought up the bitch slapping. Of course, recognizing a fellow True Believer prostrating himself before the same altar as you do, you eagerly jump to his defense. No surprise there.

Its funny when you righties stretch logic and reason and jump from A to Z without so much as a cute song from furry Elmo in the middle. This is what you do time after time in thread after thread in post after post regardless of the topic. And you do it again now.

You just don't get it. States have certain powers. The federal government has certain powers. They are not the same. They do not have to be the same. One does not negate the other.

So now you can give us all a quote from FDR.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom