• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Anyone who can read and has any knowledge of City State and Federal Government knows full well that Unions are the bane of balancing a budget.

The cost of Government employees is driving more than one State into the ditch.

Unions have long ago lost their usefulness. State and Federal wage and hour laws have along with minimum wage laws taken care of most issues that Unions were once good for helping workers with.

I agree that the Federal Minimum wage is too low but other than that, if you don't like your job quit and get a better one, or work harder and get promoted for a better wage.

The Senators in Wisconsin are unable to make a reasonable responsible argument in favor of their position so the cowards ran away like children and have abdicated their oath of office.
 
So you didn't decide not to smack your cat because someone might see you and think less of you. You are morally superior to Walker.
 
Are These People Overpaid?

Chicago-Firefighter_673808c.jpg


MADISON, Wis. -- David Rhode is a paramedic in Middleton, Wis. He works 56 hours a week, mostly in 24-hour shifts, frequently carrying wheezy patients up and down flights of stairs. He said he earns about $43,000 a year.

HuffPost asked Rhode, 36, how it feels to be overpaid. His eyebrows went up.

"I drove my Ford Focus here," he said. "I live in a 950-square-foot condominium!"

Wisconsin has become the front line in a national debate over pay and benefits for unionized public workers, with conservatives arguing that people like Rhode have become a privileged class overburdening taxpayers. Gov. Scott Walker (R) is pushing a budget bill that calls for reduced pay, cuts to pension and health plans, and an end to collective bargaining rights for public workers. Similar measures are popping up in other states as lawmakers cope with recession-fueled deficits.

Rhode said he participated in contract negotiations between the Middleton city administrator and his union, which he said successfully bargained for less vacation time in order to maintain its current level of health coverage. Under the resulting contract, the city covers 95 percent of the cost of premiums. Walker's bill would cap that at 88 percent, which union bosses have said they're willing to accept so long as collective bargaining rights are preserved.

Rhode said the contract negotiations process in which he participated led to a successful compromise. "And that's what they're trying to take away," he said.

On the second floor, HuffPost met Erica McCool, a seventh-grade English teacher in Stoughton, carrying a sign that said she wouldn't let Walker into her classroom because he's a bully. A former paralegal, McCool said she she started studying to get a Wisconsin educator license in 2005 and now earns about $30,000 a year as an English teacher. She loves her job but laughed when asked whether she considered herself overprivileged.

"I can't get a home loan. I set my thermostat at 62. No cable at my house, no internet," said McCool, 29. "I'm also $36,000 in debt from becoming a teacher."

On the ground floor, Madison resident Pete Silva told HuffPost he had been a firefighter for 26 years when he retired in September at age 52. Silva said he worked 56 hours a week, often 24-hour shifts, driving a fire engine in response to fires and medical emergencies. He said his salary started at $31,000 and had reached $60,000 by the time he retired.

Silva said his pension provides $30,000 a year, which isn't enough for him to live on, so he's taken a job as an instructor in the Wisconsin Technical College System, earning roughly $55,000 a year. His total income is significantly higher than what he earned as a firefighter, but he makes no apologies, arguing that a nice pension was part of the deal he made in exchange for his decades in a dangerous job. He said he sustained two neck injuries from lifting "very, very heavy patients" and has had to replace herniated discs.

"We had the promise of stable retirement," Silva said, after a career spent in what he described as frequent contact with human blood, puke and poop. "You'd be amazed how much poop is out there," he added.

As for the push to limit the rights and funds enjoyed by unionized public workers, Silva said, "People hate to see someone doing better than they are."

Are These People Overpaid?
 
He did conduct himself better. He didn't do what they thought about doing. I'm thinking about smacking my cat because he is bugging me right now. I'm not going to though, because I don't believe in abusing animals.

We will see if the people of Wisconsin think he conducted himself better.
 
(smile) Pay no attention to Cawtaba's straw man....

No body has issues with the front end dude.....you aren't paying attention.

Snap to Skippy.


Are These People Overpaid?

Chicago-Firefighter_673808c.jpg


MADISON, Wis. -- David Rhode is a paramedic in Middleton, Wis. He works 56 hours a week, mostly in 24-hour shifts, frequently carrying wheezy patients up and down flights of stairs. He said he earns about $43,000 a year.

HuffPost asked Rhode, 36, how it feels to be overpaid. His eyebrows went up.

"I drove my Ford Focus here," he said. "I live in a 950-square-foot condominium!"

Wisconsin has become the front line in a national debate over pay and benefits for unionized public workers, with conservatives arguing that people like Rhode have become a privileged class overburdening taxpayers. Gov. Scott Walker (R) is pushing a budget bill that calls for reduced pay, cuts to pension and health plans, and an end to collective bargaining rights for public workers. Similar measures are popping up in other states as lawmakers cope with recession-fueled deficits.

Rhode said he participated in contract negotiations between the Middleton city administrator and his union, which he said successfully bargained for less vacation time in order to maintain its current level of health coverage. Under the resulting contract, the city covers 95 percent of the cost of premiums. Walker's bill would cap that at 88 percent, which union bosses have said they're willing to accept so long as collective bargaining rights are preserved.

Rhode said the contract negotiations process in which he participated led to a successful compromise. "And that's what they're trying to take away," he said.

On the second floor, HuffPost met Erica McCool, a seventh-grade English teacher in Stoughton, carrying a sign that said she wouldn't let Walker into her classroom because he's a bully. A former paralegal, McCool said she she started studying to get a Wisconsin educator license in 2005 and now earns about $30,000 a year as an English teacher. She loves her job but laughed when asked whether she considered herself overprivileged.

"I can't get a home loan. I set my thermostat at 62. No cable at my house, no internet," said McCool, 29. "I'm also $36,000 in debt from becoming a teacher."

On the ground floor, Madison resident Pete Silva told HuffPost he had been a firefighter for 26 years when he retired in September at age 52. Silva said he worked 56 hours a week, often 24-hour shifts, driving a fire engine in response to fires and medical emergencies. He said his salary started at $31,000 and had reached $60,000 by the time he retired.

Silva said his pension provides $30,000 a year, which isn't enough for him to live on, so he's taken a job as an instructor in the Wisconsin Technical College System, earning roughly $55,000 a year. His total income is significantly higher than what he earned as a firefighter, but he makes no apologies, arguing that a nice pension was part of the deal he made in exchange for his decades in a dangerous job. He said he sustained two neck injuries from lifting "very, very heavy patients" and has had to replace herniated discs.

"We had the promise of stable retirement," Silva said, after a career spent in what he described as frequent contact with human blood, puke and poop. "You'd be amazed how much poop is out there," he added.

As for the push to limit the rights and funds enjoyed by unionized public workers, Silva said, "People hate to see someone doing better than they are."

Are These People Overpaid?
 
History is a great subject. And also you are wrong, look here and here.

There are militarizes that still goose step, but I guess that makes them Nazis right?

You're right, except it helps to understand the intent of the person originally using a word. In this case there is little doubt that he attempted to use in a defamatory way.

Popular awareness

Often in the West, the goose step is invoked as a reference to Nazism, fascism or militarism in general. This is especially common in English-speaking countries, where World War II propaganda has indelibly associated it with fascism.

Goose step - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
"Taxpayers in State of Wisconsin will pay $11.8 billion for proposed Dept. of Defense for FY11.

For the same amount of money, the following could be provided:

8.8 million Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
187,914 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
258,971 Firefighters for One Year OR
1.7 million Head Start Slots for Children for One Year OR
3.4 million Households with Renewable Electricity - Solar Photovoltaic for One Year OR
9.2 million Households with Renewable Electricity-Wind Power for One Year OR
1.6 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
1.6 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
2.6 million People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
182,022 Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year OR
1.4 million Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
2.1 million Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550"

Solidarity With Wisconsin | United for Justice with Peace
 
Yes they invest it as to make more $$$ for themselves


If they invest it to grow a business they hire more people.
Why do you hate rich people? Wouldn't you like to be wealthy yourself someday? Think of all the people you could help.
I wish I was rich so I could help more people.
 
You're screwed dude...your sources are simply BS.

We don't quote Fox...you don't quote the things you do...well..not with credibility anyway.

HuffPo and that Union thing...yeah right.

"Taxpayers in State of Wisconsin will pay $11.8 billion for proposed Dept. of Defense for FY11.

For the same amount of money, the following could be provided:

8.8 million Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
187,914 Elementary School Teachers for One Year OR
258,971 Firefighters for One Year OR
1.7 million Head Start Slots for Children for One Year OR
3.4 million Households with Renewable Electricity - Solar Photovoltaic for One Year OR
9.2 million Households with Renewable Electricity-Wind Power for One Year OR
1.6 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
1.6 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year OR
2.6 million People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year OR
182,022 Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year OR
1.4 million Scholarships for University Students for One Year OR
2.1 million Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550"

Solidarity With Wisconsin | United for Justice with Peace
 
That's a terrible analogy. That is what is called a straw man. You simply took my point of view, packaged it and turned it into something else, and then tackled that argument.

Guess what? I never asked whether or not you could buy a car. I asked why I should believe the free market is correct in deciding compensation for a CEO that makes 2150 times the amount of most his employees? That was my question.
Really? I tried the number 50,000 times 2150 and my calculatar doesn't have enough room for all the zeros. So geez, I might agree that they make too much money. ;)
 
Look when your income is cut what do you do? If you believe giving tax breaks to corporations create the deficits then stop the damn spending.

If you stop voting GOP, we could.

I posted the 2010 budget and I am sure you can find 30 billion in cuts there to promote job creation.

Spending cuts do not necessarily create jobs, and in any case, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the government to create any private sector jobs.

How many employees will that 30 billion tanker contract create?

I don't want the US gummint taking $$ from me or my kids to create jobs for others that have no value to anyone else.

You really don't like CEO's apparently, how many are there and what did they create of our 14.3 trillion dollar debt?

The CEOs and corporate board members created a major portion of the debt by constantly influencing boehneristic lawmakers to spend money on their (useless) products.
 
the problem here Conservative is that you judge others by what you yourself describe as your own political experience. You proudly trumpet how your own views have not changed but the Democratic Party... ooooppps --- you call it the Democrat Party - don't you.....(as if that Limbaughism is not a complete giveaway to the fraud) left you. You stood still while the dems left you behind and you found yourself as Republican.

You see sir, many people tend to change a bit - sometimes alot - and evolve with the times. That was the type of person FDR was and there is tons of evidence of it in the excellent series of books about him and the New Deal by Arthur Schlesinger. You should read them. Its all in there and will give you all the proof you need that FDR changed his views to the demands of the times and the situation. He was far from the type of individual that you yourself proudly proclaim to be.

to help you

Amazon.com: The Crisis of the Old Order: 1919-1933, The Age of Roosevelt, Volume I (9780618340859): Arthur M. "Schlesinger Jr.": Books

I agree--people change. as they become wiser and hopefully more independent they tend to throw off the shackles of dependency and needing parents and become self sufficient Those who remain in a permanent state of childhood tend to want to substitute their often deceased or distant parents with surrogates-ie government
 
Not sure but could the lack of subsidies effect the price of gas for all of us?

Not at all. The oil industry is oligopolistic, so the only significant factor that affects price is the demand for fuel (labor and hardware cost is negligible).
 
Last edited:
Two minutes ago you were telling someone to look at his calendar and forget what FDR said about public sector Unions...now...

and both fit perfectly into the context of the discussion. You are an angel for noticing Barb.
 
I agree--people change. as they become wiser and hopefully more independent they tend to throw off the shackles of dependency and needing parents and become self sufficient Those who remain in a permanent state of childhood tend to want to substitute their often deceased or distant parents with surrogates-ie government

When you reply to a post that you reproduce from another person - in this case mine - a good tip to remember is to have something which actually speaks to the post that you reproduced leading into you remarks. It makes so much more sense that way. Nothing you said had anything to do with my words. Nothing.
 
Get used to it my friend. It is standard operating procedure for that poster and is his favorite way of 'debating'. twist it - change it - rephrase it - pervert it - turn it into a Frankenstein monster of the actual idea - because its so much easier to attack it that way.

And get ready for the part where he puts on the referee suit and proclaims himself the winner, you the loser, and you FAIL. Thats my personal favorite part.

This really is getting old, liberalism is a complete and absolute failure just like "your" President. The facts are overwhelming. Obama rhetoric always trumps facts. Do you know that Obama has not given the Federal public union employees the benefits that Wisconsin public service employees have? Continue to buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. Defending the indefensible makes you look foolish.
 
When you reply to a post that you reproduce from another person - in this case mine - a good tip to remember is to have something which actually speaks to the post that you reproduced leading into you remarks. It makes so much more sense that way. Nothing you said had anything to do with my words. Nothing.

arrogrance is unbecoming when one utters dullardly posts
 
I guess I don't see the exploitation you see by public school teachers. If there is a bad teacher in your school district, there are more opportunities to address that than in the private sector. And the so called exploitation, I suppose you mean their meager salary and benefits, is about what the average is for someone with comparable education.

Are there probably some examples of bad teachers in Wisconsin that don't deserve $75,000 a year? I'm sure there are but it doesn't mean that teachers in general are being overpaid.

We have a lot of problems in this country but overpaid teachers is not one of them.

I agree.

There are some lazy school teachers, and some excellent school teachers, and some in between.

Nevertheless, you're correct that in the grand scheme of things, i. e. considering all the other world's problems, overpaid teachers are a non-issue.

And in fact, I have no problem w/teachers doing whatever it takes (including exploiting union contracts and lounging around in class if terms aren't met) for the sake of getting what they deserve, because those groups that claim to abhor unions as an affront to free markets (i. e. the GOP) themselves engage in other forms of unethical conduct that undermined the free market.
 
solletica;1059310407]If you stop voting GOP, we could.

And who should I vote for. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative and right now the GOP beats the alternative.


Spending cuts do not necessarily create jobs, and in any case, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the government to create any private sector jobs.

Couldn't agree more, it isn't the Government's responsibility to create jobs nor can they that actually produce anything.


I don't want the US gummint taking $$ from me or my kids to create jobs for others that have no value to anyone else.

That is what liberalism thinks they can do, take money and spend it wisely to redistribute wealth. It never works.

The CEOs and corporate board members created a major portion of the debt by constantly influencing boehneristic lawmakers to spend money on their (useless) products.

You were doing so well, spending causes debt not tax cuts that promote the private sector. CEO's and corporate board members of private companies do not affect the U.S. Debt at all.
 
arrogrance is unbecoming when one utters dullardly posts

but nowhere near as offensive as posting after reproducing anothers words and then saying not a single word which relates to them in any way.
 
from Conservative

And who should I vote for. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative and right now the GOP beats the alternative.
so you have you voted for in the last ten presidential elections?
 
Well that is just my argument. The free market has set their value and it has set the value of their respective CEOs. I am arguing that the free market, in this case, got it wrong. Especially in the case of Wal-Mart, which in my opinion is proof of what happens when unions are not allowed to enter into a market. And even with unions, it would be difficult to raise compensation to a fair level because the free market has deemed these people so unvaluable.

According to this Wal-Mart fact sheet, they employ around 2 million people worldwide:

http://walmartstores.com/download/2230.pdf

So that means, if the CEO were to take an $8 million dollar pay cut (he would still make $27 million not including benefits and bonuses), each employee would receive $4 an hour more. That's a 50% increase in wages for many of their employees! In fact, for those that have a starting salary of $8 an hour, their annual salary would look like this:

$8: $16,440 (which if I have to tell you how terrible that is...)
$12: $24,960 (still not great)

To me, that is a market failure that this can happen in front of everyones eyes and nothign is done. In fact, many of you argue against it.

So your arguement has nothing to do with whether or not Wal-Mart pays more and has as good or better benefits for it's employees than other stores. It's all about the CEO's pay and redistribution of wealth. Got it. Why didn't you say so in the first place?

BTW here's a link to a unionized grocery store.


Kroger Cashier Hourly Pay | Glassdoor.com
 
Moderator's Warning:
Play nice guys. Don't attack each other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom