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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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Barbbtx said:
I earned 5 bucks. You tell me to give it to you. I say no.
Do you have 5 bucks less than before? Of course not.

It doesn't matter if you are a thousand in debt, I didn't add to it by keeping my own money.
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You have $3,000 in bills due this month and you make $3,500. You decide that taking a pay cut is better for the company so you now earn $3,000 and have no money for food. You can cut, and maybe you should, regardless of the paycut, but it doesn't make the fact that you took a paycut any less stupid.
 
whysoserious;1059305453]What? A 401k is an investment that I pay out of my pocket for retirement and the company often matches payments up to a certain points - and it's tax free! That's great, what does that have to do with anything?
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And where is that money invested? Figure it out and how tht relates to corporate profits.

You do realize that a tax cut for anyone is the same thing? I still don't see what that has to do with 401ks, but whatever. What do you think corporations do with money they get? Reinvest? Buy back common stock? Pay off long-term debt (or debt in general)? Keep it for liquidity?
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Great and how does that affect shareholders?

They do lots of stuff but not much of it involves money "trickling" down to the plebs.
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Not sure where you went to school or where you work but you are really naive about business. Our education system has failed you. Everything a corporation does starting with payroll, benefits, and stock options trickle down to the employee and the shareholders.
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that ALL taxes don't fund the Federal Govt, but instead FEDERAL INCOME TAXES fund the Federal Govt. and that is the issue. You have the ability to move from state to state to affect tax rates but it is harder to escape the Federal Income taxes. Apparently you don't seem to know the expense line items in the budget even though I have posted them numerous times.
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A tax is a tax is a tax.

A CPA named William Shakespeare said that.
 
whysoserious said:
You have $3,000 in bills due this month and you make $3,500. You decide that taking a pay cut is better for the company so you now earn $3,000 and have no money for food. You can cut, and maybe you should, regardless of the paycut, but it doesn't make the fact that you took a paycut any less stupid.
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Time to cut your bills down to a more managable level or --- get a 2nd job.

The horror!!
 
Catawba said:
Yes, I believe in social justice. It makes no sense to me to give the bankers that ****** us trillions of dollars and then go after the teachers, firefighters, and policeman to try to even the books. But that's just me.

Why do you want to destroy the middle class? You think the world would be a better place if run by corporations?
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one of the more silly errors some lefties labor under is the concept that the government has GIVEN most of the rich their wealth and that justifies the government TAKING that wealth back
 
haymarket said:
A tax is a tax is a tax.

A CPA named William Shakespeare said that.
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Yes, a tax is a tax but not all people pay taxes and you can control the amount of State taxes you pay by where you live and the amount of Federal Taxes you pay by the amount that you earn. Keep spinning.
 
ptif219 said:
Poor guy. I am away from home 3 weeks at a time and home one week. Feel sorry for me yet?
MG_119.gif
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I wore out the strings on my violin:mrgreen:
 
Conservative said:
And where is that money invested? Figure it out and how tht relates to corporate profits.
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I have not hidden the fact that I am a student (no I am not ashamed that I am not rich yet) and that I am studying to be an Actuary. I bring it up often, because you people talk to me like I am stupid. Unfortunately, again, I understand how cash flows better than you might think.

Money can be invested in all sorts of ways. Like I said earlier, it can be invested into various sorts of capital: assets, purchasing back of common stock, it can stay liquid, it can pay off debt, etc. They can do whatever they want with it. It could be invested like you are thinking, I guess, in bonds or other stocks.

Conservative said:
Great and how does that affect shareholders?
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Who are shareholders? Teachers? I don't think owning stock is part of the teacher's fringe benefits that you want cut so badly.

Conservative said:
Not sure where you went to school or where you work but you are really naive about business. Our education system has failed you. Everything a corporation does starting with payroll, benefits, and stock options trickle down to the employee and the shareholders.
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Shareholders I'd agree with, and some employees, and sometimes even the customer. The question is how much and to who it goes. And I'll let you call me naive when you can explain to me what a bull spread is and how it is used. Or how about how to create a synthetic forward or short. Then we'll talk.
 
TurtleDude said:
one of the more silly errors some lefties labor under is the concept that the government has GIVEN most of the rich their wealth and that justifies the government TAKING that wealth back
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You think the free market will fix it? A revolution eventually would, but the free market doesn't adjust for the plebs. The free market is the most makes Darwinism look nice. :)
 
Ockham said:
Time to cut your bills down to a more managable level or --- get a 2nd job.

The horror!!
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Or don't take the pay cut, and cut your bills down. That works. But don't just do one and then bitch about the other. Again, it's a linear relationship so each one is just as much to blame as the other.
 
haymarket said:
I am not obsessed with one particular tax over others the way the extreme right wing is. I do not think the income tax is the be all and end all of taxation. In fact, when you add in ALL taxation paid to ALL levels of government for ALL things - what you find out is that the difference between the extreme rich pay and what the rest of us pay is about 1.5% of our income.

Bottom line: we all pay about the same percentage in total taxes. Rich folks may pay more in actual dollars but average folks pay a higher percentage of their income in regressive taxes.. and there are a whole lot more of those than there are progressive ones. But this is nothing new to you is it? This has been explained to you over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread almost every time this silly 47% subject comes up.

But yet again, it will roll off of you like water off a ducks back and you will continue to obsess about the 47% and income tax. It will be like no ugly reality has disturbed your world at all.
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Lets examine this logic

its like saying to a private school-you ought to give my son a scholarship even though every other parent pays the 15K a year tuition because I spend all my money on car payments and food and booze and after all an expense is an expense

the fact is not only do those 47 percent use at least a sizeable amount of the stuff FINANCED BY THE INCOME TAX THAT THEY DON'T PAY

THEY WANT MORE OF THE STUFF THAT THE INCOME TAX FUNDS AND OFTEN demand that the rest of us PAY MORE income taxes to fund their share
 
whysoserious said:
You think the free market will fix it? A revolution eventually would, but the free market doesn't adjust for the plebs. The free market is the most makes Darwinism look nice. :)
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I'd like a revolution rather than the creeping crud of welfare socialism where more and more people become net tax consumers voting away the wealth of the fewer and fewer net tax payer.

If we had a full out revolution, we'd wipe out most of the sloths, slackers and the stupid. most of the people well disciplined in the art of arms and killing aren't liberals
 
from Turtle

its like saying to a private school-you ought to give my son a scholarship even though every other parent pays the 15K a year tuition because I spend all my money on car payments and food and booze and after all an expense is an expense
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No.

This is this. This isn't something else. This is this.

The great existential philosopher Robert DeNiro made this simple but complex observation in his omnibus study of cheap debate tricks and three card Montie called THE DEERHUNTER.
 
Catawba said:
Insult noted. Do you want extra points for that?



I'll let you know should that ever be the case. How do you feel about busting the last defense against corporate domination of our government and workers?




Yes, it does as I prefer worker protection to the corporate influence during the GOP rule. Without the unions, we are at the mercy of corporate rule, which definitely does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. A preliminary step to a dictatorship is dismantling the unions. I tend to be partial to freedom.
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We're only talking about public unions, and employees payed for by tax payers, not corporate rule. What do you have against public employees having a choice about whether to join a union or not? Right now in Wisconsin they have no choice. They are forced to pay union dues which could be anywhere from 500-1,000 dollars. Nice offset for HC and Pensions they will be paying into huh? If they do away with part of the collective bargaining like Walker is going to do, they can choose to keep that money.
 
haymarket said:
from Turtle



No.

This is this. This isn't something else. This is this.

The great existential philosopher Robert DeNiro made this simple but complex observation in his omnibus study of cheap debate tricks and three card Montie called THE DEERHUNTER.
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I guess that is the difference between a rational conservative and an emoting lefty

I dont look to hollywood for guidance in how to run my life

the fact is if you cannot pay your share you shouldn't engage in behavior that makes other people have to pay even more
 
whysoserious;1059305494]I have not hidden the fact that I am a student (no I am not ashamed that I am not rich yet) and that I am studying to be an Actuary. I bring it up often, because you people talk to me like I am stupid. Unfortunately, again, I understand how cash flows better than you might think.
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With the attitude you have about business and profits I would expect you to give most of your money away sinc someone else needs it more than you. You really need to take some good business classes to learn about profit, losses, and investments thus risk taking. What bothers me is that you don't seem to understand how business works and where the money comes from to pay wages, benefits, and shareholders.

Money can be invested in all sorts of ways. Like I said earlier, it can be invested into various sorts of capital: assets, purchasing back of common stock, it can stay liquid, it can pay off debt, etc. They can do whatever they want with it. It could be invested like you are thinking, I guess, in bonds or other stocks.
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Yes, and yet about 70% of the people in this country are invested in the stock market betting on companies making a profit so they can get dividends and share price appreciation. Without profits there are no businesses, employees, or shareholders.


Who are shareholders? Teachers? I don't think owning stock is part of the teacher's fringe benefits that you want cut so badly.
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Shareholders are anyone that holds a position in a publicly traded company and yes that could include teachers who have a 401K and that money invested in the markets.



Shareholders I'd agree with, and some employees, and sometimes even the customer. The question is how much and to who it goes. And I'll let you call me naive when you can explain to me what a bull spread is and how it is used. Or how about how to create a synthetic forward or short. Then we'll talk.
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Who should make that determination, you? You think because you know what a bull spread is, how it is used, or how to create a synthetic forward and short has anything to do with the thread topic, public unions, or how those evil corporations operate? Nice try at diversion
 
from Turtle

I guess that is the difference between a rational conservative and an emoting lefty
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You do not have to guess about anything. The difference is the ability of folks like me to deal with REALITY as things are and folks like you who want to make ridiculous comparisons using a version of three card Montie. Deal with things as they are without creating your own perverted versions of what people say. Burn your legion of strawmen and your silly comparisons "this is just like" because it never ever is . Deal with reality.
 
haymarket said:
from Turtle



You do not have to guess about anything. The difference is the ability of folks like me to deal with REALITY as things are and folks like you who want to make ridiculous comparisons using a version of three card Montie. Deal with things as they are without creating your own perverted versions of what people say. Burn your legion of strawmen and your silly comparisons "this is just like" because it never ever is . Deal with reality.
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the reality is that you want dems to win elections and you will make all sorts of arguments to justify anything that helps dems win even if it totally ruins this country.

you justify allowing millions to demand others pay for them because those millions tend to vote dem because dems promise them that others will be tasked with funding what those millions want
 
whysoserious said:
Ok... that doesn't change anything though? You can interchange the words but the equation is still:

income/revenue - expense/spending = profit/loss

It's still linear. Get a graphing calculator. :)
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spending= having less money than I had before

That's how my budget works anyway. No debt involved.
 
Conservative said:
I keep waiting for you to respond to the content of the post. Liberals are intellectually dishonest and I include you in that statement. "I don't care" does define liberals quite well.
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What content? There was content there?
 
Conservative said:
With the attitude you have about business and profits I would expect you to give most of your money away sinc someone else needs it more than you. You really need to take some good business classes to learn about profit, losses, and investments thus risk taking. What bothers me is that you don't seem to understand how business works and where the money comes from to pay wages, benefits, and shareholders.
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I have taken the early classes for business, but I don't have much of a need to go much further. I can read financial statements (I can even make financial statements from ledgers). The classes I have taken regarding these subjects are Financial Accounting, Managerial Accounting, Micro and Macro Economics, Theory of Interest, Actuary Math I, Probability & Stat I & II, and Risk Management and Insurance.

I understand how business works. I just don't agree with you about supply-side economics. I don't see how that means that I don't understand how business works.

Conservative said:
Yes, and yet about 70% of the people in this country are invested in the stock market betting on companies making a profit so they can get dividends and share price appreciation. Without profits there are no businesses, employees, or shareholders.
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That's true about profits. What does that have to do with not lowering taxes in Wisconsin? Were businesses not making profits there?

Conservative said:
Shareholders are anyone that holds a position in a publicly traded company and yes that could include teachers who have a 401K and that money invested in the markets.
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Yes, 401k's are invested in a multitude of different areas. Those types of retirement accounts, which are generally governed by a third-party rather than the individual who owns it, are about as deep as the typical person gets into the market. This is actually smart, since the market is akin to gambling and really requires a ton of knowledge in not only the companies to invest in but also probability.

Conservative said:
Who should make that determination, you? You think because you know what a bull spread is, how it is used, or how to create a synthetic forward and short has anything to do with the thread topic, public unions, or how those evil corporations operate? Nice try at diversion
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I think the company makes that determination? Otherwise, instead of cutting taxes, it would be the government that would make that designation.

Keep in mind, I only brought up my knowledge because you consistently attack my level of intelligence. I hope you reconsider.

*Edit:

And I never called corporations evil. Thanks!
 
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