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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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You equate social justice and forced economic equality incorrectly. We don't have those things now, and have never had them and those things are accomplished all the time.

We already have a fair living wage and affordable health care and education, though I would argue we overpay by at least 50% on education.

America has a living wage? This is news to me!
 
Ok, let me see if you can grab this idea:The more wealth controlled by tiny amounts of people, the less wealth for the rest of the people. It's not a very hard concept to grasp.
It's easy to grasp, and it's also a fallacy as it applies to participants in the U.S. market. I responded to this already, you didn't really rebut my points.

Another short answer is that if the pie was fixed as you claim, how could the market grow, or shrink, as it does every second of every day? It's false propoganda.

needing to finance tens of thousands of dollars to go to college
Why spend tens of thousands on college if you can't capitalize on it? Sounds like bad choices or bad advice. Community college outside my window is like $80/course. Nothing wrong with at the least, 2 years there.

coming out with mountains of debt
Americans do have a problem with debt spending, it sure as hell isn't a problem with the system.

Then these people need to go out and buy a mortgage
Nonsense. I started my business while living in an apartment. There is not only no need to buy a house, there is no need to rent a house. That sort of mindset is what cripples americans into losers. We have vietnemese refuges, people raised in dirt villages who come here, get an education without all that debt, live with their parents until they can afford their own residence. What do literally dirt poor vietnemese people know that americans don't? Apparently how to work for a living and make smart financial choices?

And on top of that you want people to borrow $400,000 to start a business
Good lord, what are you starting? Most businesses can either be started with sweat equity (work) and maybe a few thousands bucks (like a cell phone subscription cost), or you would line up the first contract before you start, so all you need is cash-flow until you get paid. But either way, I'd rather see someone make a well researched investment in a $200K business, than buy a home on a whim for $200K because "they wanted more space and liked the house". I mean of course, if they are actually interested in gaining wealth.

You wrote it yourself. Wealth begets weatlh. Why are people grabbing up debt instead of wealth (savings?) It's an example of belief not coinciding with behavior (or reality).

What about when it happens again?
Best way to insulate against downturns is to save up during the up cycle. Not go in debt (see above)
 
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It's their money...if I need more...I can go earn it.

It's a very simple concept.

So you can earn serious bread an economy where there is 9-10% unemployment?

Please, tell me how'd you do that.
 
You equate social justice and forced economic equality incorrectly. We don't have those things now, and have never had them and those things are accomplished all the time.

We most certainly do, review the 2010 Census, read the newspaper, do a little research if you are so far removed from the middle class that you can't see their plight getting worse as the super-rich just get more tax breaks that are added to our debt.

We already have a fair living wage and affordable health care and education, though I would argue we overpay by at least 50% on education
.

Poppycock:

"The ranks of the working poor now exceed 47 million, driven in part by the steep erosion of wage standards throughout our economy. Over the last forty years, the real value of the federal minimum wage has fallen by close to 30%. Even after the 2007-2009 federal increases, the minimum wage remains far too low to sustain working families."

National Employment Law Project

"Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds"

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds
 
Guess what? The "pies" that the rich make, while they create jobs, also increase the amount of wealth they have, thus increasing their share of the pie.
...and the overall pie available for everyone else. And what about the pies that the non-wealthy routinely make?
It's labor-party rhetoric, it's not real, I'm sorry.
 
...and the overall pie available for everyone else. And what about the pies that the non-wealthy routinely make?
It's labor-party rhetoric, it's not real, I'm sorry.

How is the pie available for everyone else when a minority controls the majority of the pie?
 
You are making broad assumptions.

I am in Sales, if I want to "earn" more I can work harder and SELL more....again...a VERY simple concept.

Unemployment is 4.7 in my State.....and it isn't a Lib State ;)

So you can earn serious bread an economy where there is 9-10% unemployment?

Please, tell me how'd you do that.
 
Guess what? The "pies" that the rich make, while they create jobs, also increase the amount of wealth they have, thus increasing their share of the pie.

So? Why is increasing their own pies while creating jobs for others a bad thing? You expect him to hire people for the hec of it? It might surprise you, but people go into business to make money, and there is no limit to how much they should be allowed to make before they quit. When they aren't making money, they go out of business and people lose their jobs.
 
Both parties are controlled by corporations.

Also I do not support Walker, what he is doing is an attack on labor.

Large corporations make up bout 20% of the labor market so what about the other 80%. Lot easier to focus on those evil large corporations and ignore the other 80% or the fact that even those large corporations employ people and pay shareholders. How do you expect dividends to be paid to shareholders many who supplement their SS with dividend checks from those evil companies?

As for Walker he is attacking public unions and rightly so. There is no place in this country for public unions negotiating with politicians and then funding campaigns of those politicians. You are worried about corrupt corporations, how about corrupt public unions?
 
Both parties are controlled by corporations.

Also I do not support Walker, what he is doing is an attack on labor.

What the Union is doing is an attack on taxpayers who don't belong to Unions.
 
"The ranks of the working poor now exceed 47 million,

A void of a number.

Middle class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In February 2009, The Economist announced that over half the world's population now belongs to the middle class, as a result of rapid growth in emerging countries.

How do people in reality actually improve poverty? With free'er markets and free trade. Not with bankrupt writings of a failed labor movement that crippled billions of people for generations.

The point at which the poor start entering the middle class by the millions is the time when poor countries get the maximum benefit from cheap labour through international trade, before they price themselves out of world markets for cheap goods

That's right. Cheap labor and the free trade of it raises more people out of poverty than any other practical force known to mankind. But you oppose it?
 
Fox news is your credible source??? LOL!

Didn't even watch it, did you? Stossel happens to be a libertarian by the way and doesn't always agree with the regulars on Fox.
 
So? Why is increasing their own pies while creating jobs for others a bad thing? You expect him to hire people for the hec of it? It might surprise you, but people go into business to make money, and there is no limit to how much they should be allowed to make before they quit. When they aren't making money, they go out of business and people lose their jobs.

I never said that increasing their own pies while creating jobs for others a bad thing, I said that the main beneficiaries of the increase in the pie are those who made the pie in the first place, thus the thought that the increase in pie benefits everyone isn't really true.
 
How is the pie available for everyone else when a minority controls the majority of the pie?

Because you're free to jump in there any time you want. People demonstrate this fact every day. They don't "control" it in any practical sense. That's why we have free markets to begin with, to prevent control.

And try the opposite to finish the debate. How can you demonstrate there is no pie for everyone else because it's in minority hands? You can't, not because you're not smart, but because it's not true.
 
What the Union is doing is an attack on taxpayers who don't belong to Unions.

And corporations have not attacked taxpayers by getting the gov to bail them out?
 
Because you're free to jump in there any time you want. People demonstrate this fact every day. They don't "control" it in any practical sense. That's why we have free markets to begin with, to prevent control.

And try the opposite to finish the debate. How can you demonstrate there is no pie for everyone else because it's in minority hands? You can't, not because you're not smart, but because it's not true.

The market is not free because the minority that is currently in control is going to make sure that they stay in control. For example, let's say there is a Walmart in my town, yet I want to have a store that also sells general goods. I can go and make that store yes, but I will eventually lose because Walmart can afford to have dirt cheap prices, as where I cannot.
 
Compare the time you spend on watching TV and playing on the PC compared to how much time you actively work towards goals involving wealth accumulation.

It's not a big mystery. Do Olympic athletes who are told they don't have "the right genetics", who then go on to train for years and compete and win gold medals....

Do they all get together as an "athlete union" and coerce the judges to give mediocre athletes gold medals?
 
LOL...Bammy and Bush did it...the Public wanted to let them fail.

Compare the time you spend on watching TV and playing on the PC compared to how much time you actively work towards goals involving wealth accumulation.

It's not a big mystery. Do Olympic athletes who are told they don't have "the right genetics", who then go on to train for years and compete and win gold medals....

Do they all get together as an "athlete union" and coerce the judges to give mediocre athletes gold medals?


Neither of you have addressed the points I put up.
 
A void of a number.

One sixth of the country being under the poverty line doesn't concern you huh?

Middle class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In February 2009, The Economist announced that over half the world's population now belongs to the middle class, as a result of rapid growth in emerging countries.

How do people in reality actually improve poverty? With free'er markets and free trade. Not with bankrupt writings of a failed labor movement that crippled billions of people for generations.

How's that been working out since Reagan and Bush slashed tax rates for the wealthy and cut regulations? Are we better off now than we were during our 50 year period of progressive taxes and adequate regulatory oversight in this country?

The point at which the poor start entering the middle class by the millions is the time when poor countries get the maximum benefit from cheap labour through international trade, before they price themselves out of world markets for cheap goods

That's right. Cheap labor and the free trade of it raises more people out of poverty than any other practical force known to mankind. But you oppose it?

Because your trickle down theory has proven not to work. Why would I possible want to continue practices that have only made our economy worse for the middle class?

We have been trickled on quite enough already thank you!
 
Please tell me this is an act and you are doing this for attention? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? How can people get a poor education in public schools when most of them are funded by both state and Federal Dollars that rank at the top of the world?

In what world?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2206rank.html
The CIA puts us 46th in percent of GDP spent on education.

World education rankings: which country does best at reading, maths and science? | News | guardian.co.uk
PISA-rankings-within-OECD-001.jpg


Educational Score Performance - Country Rankings
You can also see how terrible we were in 2009. Our education system is really not that great.

U.S. Education Slips In Rankings - CBS News
=By both measures, the United States was first in the world as recently as 20 years ago, said Barry McGaw, director of education for the Paris-based Organization for Cooperation and Development. The 30-nation organization develops the yearly rankings as a way for countries to evaluate their education systems and determine whether to change their policies.

You're right, we better cut education so that we can give tax breaks to the guys who trade derivatives! No wonder our system is so screwed up?

People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.


Bill Gates has stated publicly that he plans on donating everything except for a few million to his kids.
Bill Gates pledges his $58 billion fortune to charity... rather than his children | Mail Online

It's a beautiful thing. I think, unfortunately, he is even going to break apart the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation - which is a shame (as it is one of the few truly benevolent organizations in the world).
 
The market is not free because the minority that is currently in control is going to make sure that they stay in control. For example, let's say there is a Walmart in my town, yet I want to have a store that also sells general goods. I can go and make that store yes, but I will eventually lose because Walmart can afford to have dirt cheap prices, as where I cannot.

You are not writing anything that remotely reflects reality. Why?

If your idea of starting a business is randomly starting a mom-and-pop shop to go head on with wal mart on general low cost retail items, you're offering the worst advice I've read on DP in recent memory.

I mean, why can't you just go compete with Toyota right now? They are keeping you down! The corporate man is preventing you? What a crock.

You start based on your means. You generate income. You save, you make more, you re-invest, you make more, you re-invest. As whysoserious informed you, wealth begets wealth.

Or, you just to work up the ladder and become an executive and make 7-figures and get company stocks. That's getting a piece of the pie too. Any way you cut it, you are free to. More free than nearly any other society in human history to boot.
 
The market is not free because the minority that is currently in control is going to make sure that they stay in control. For example, let's say there is a Walmart in my town, yet I want to have a store that also sells general goods. I can go and make that store yes, but I will eventually lose because Walmart can afford to have dirt cheap prices, as where I cannot.

Every town doesn't have a Wal-Mart so move if that is what you want to do. Amazing isn't it how many people line up to work at Wal-Mart when a new one opens up and amazing how much the public saves at a Wal-Mart that allows them to do more with their money. Even more importantly people working at Wal-Mart full time don't make minimum wage, get full benefits, and are promoted from within to other positions including corporate. So what is your problem again?
 
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