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EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

Jobs vs. Environment. America must choose. You cant' have both.

According to wikipedia:

Environmental engineering is the application of science and engineering principles to improve the environment (air, water, and/or land resources), to provide healthy water, air, and land for human habitation and for other organisms, and to remediate polluted sites.

The goal of environmental engineering is to ensure that societal development and the use of water, land and air resources are sustainable.

Given that, where do you believe that this veto has gone wrong? come up with a legitimate reason. Why is the EPA incorrect? The job killing rhetoric is getting on my nerves. Do you realize that high amounts of salinity and selenium in streams has its costs as well? Have you taken that into consideration?
 
From the linked article winston53660 provided in post #4:

Morgan Worldwide recommended an alternative that proposed to dump all of the waste rock and dirt into the Seng Camp area, eliminating proposed valley fills in two other areas, Pigeonroost Hollow and Oldhouse Branch. The recommended alternative would produce 2,300 tons of coal per foot of stream impact, compared to 930 tons of coal per foot of stream impacted under the company's proposal.


Transporting the waste rock and dirt a longer distance to the Seng Camp area of the permit would cost the company an additional $1.5 million per year, Morgan's report found. That amounts to 55 cents per ton of coal, or about 1 percent of projected annual revenues at the operation, according to the report.

In other words, even though the proposed althernative dump method outlined by Morgan Worldwide would have more than doubled the yield on coal production for Arch Coal, Inc., they would rather stick to their principles and be cheap than to eat into future potential earnings and pay the additional $1.5M a year to transport the waste rock and dirt from the mining operation. That's corporate creed at it's best, folks.

Environmentalism kills jobs. Leftists must choose between environmentalism or social justice.

How about stupidity and greed is what's killing these jobs and government is doing the responsible thing after offering viable alternatives that actually stood to turn a greater profit for the company only they would rather pinch pennies than drive the increased distance to off-load the debris in a safe and responsible way.
 
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You be sure and let me know when that mine re-opens and go back into production. K?

BTW, how many drilling permits have been issued since the moratorium ended? A grand total of two.

I beleive this portion of the mine is not yet constructed. It is a proposed plan that the EPA shot down. So you should be saying, when will it go into production? Which, IMO it still eventaully will, however superior alternatives, perhaps more costly for the mine will have to be considered.
 
Guys, you don't get it do you? Even if you are right about everything you are going to fail in creating the America you want. Why? The world has changed. American workers are now in direct competition with Chinese workers who are like young lions in their hunger to advance.

The old America was wealthy enough to permit environmental sclerosis to sap the economy. The new America is simply living on the surplus capital created by the old America.

You aren't fighting me. You're fighting the force of gravity. Do whatever you want. Let me give you a tip: if you want financial security invest overseas, and get a significant portion of your assets outside of this country. There's no telling what might happen.
 
Guys, you don't get it do you? Even if you are right about everything you are going to fail in creating the America you want. Why? The world has changed. American workers are now in direct competition with Chinese workers who are like young lions in their hunger to advance.

The old America was wealthy enough to permit environmental sclerosis to sap the economy. The new America is simply living on the surplus capital created by the old America.

You aren't fighting me. You're fighting the force of gravity. Do whatever you want. Let me give you a tip: if you want financial security invest overseas, and get a significant portion of your assets outside of this country. There's no telling what might happen.

Whatever you say. Speaking of which, the US trade deficit has continued to roar back to life with our economic recovery. It seems china still has a ways to go.
 
Guys, you don't get it do you? Even if you are right about everything you are going to fail in creating the America you want. Why? The world has changed. American workers are now in direct competition with Chinese workers who are like young lions in their hunger to advance.

The old America was wealthy enough to permit environmental sclerosis to sap the economy. The new America is simply living on the surplus capital created by the old America.

You aren't fighting me. You're fighting the force of gravity. Do whatever you want. Let me give you a tip: if you want financial security invest overseas, and get a significant portion of your assets outside of this country. There's no telling what might happen.

Ah, yes... the limited vision of the far-right.

Wait, I already said that.
 
Whatever you say. Speaking of which, the US trade deficit has continued to roar back to life with our economic recovery. It seems china still has a ways to go.

America is paralyzed politically. Time isn't on America's side. It is on the side of people throughout the world who are capable of acting. The division between Left and Right in America means America will remain paralyzed. The Right can't beat the Left, but the Left can't beat the Right either. So I can guarantee you continued American paralysis. Ten years from now America will be weaker than it is today just as America is weaker now than it was ten years ago. Twenty years from now America will be even weaker than it will be in ten years. This is guaranteed because the divisions of the American people can't be bridged.
 
Ah, yes... the limited vision of the far-right.

Wait, I already said that.

Far right has nothing to do with this vision. The historical precedents are everywhere. Americans foolishly think they are exempt from the forces and processes of history. No one is exempt. America today is like France in 1780 or Qing China in 1880 or the Soviet Union in 1980.

I love throwing this **** in your faces. The schadenfreude is overwhelming. The financial collapse stripped away America's disguise and the masquerade is now ending. The Great Reckoning is upon you.
 
We need to have a new political lean: Paranoid Conservative.

I think you mischaracterize the phenomenon. What you see is not paranoia. It is political nihilism. There quite simply is no defense against it as long as it speaks the truth.
 
So, the EPA shuts the mine down and puts all those people out of work? That showed'em!


No, the company that broke the law put their employees out of work.

Problem solved! There are too many people in this country that have jobs, anyway.

If they have good unions, they still have jobs. And, so do the mangers that broke the law.
 
No, the company that broke the law put their employees out of work.



If they have good unions, they still have jobs. And, so do the mangers that broke the law.

You be sure and let us know when these guys go back to work. K?
 
W.Va. met coal mine closed in 1985 to reopen* - News - Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports -
Another Virginia mine to reopen will add more jobs.
United Coal President and Chief Executive Michael Zervos said the reopening of the Affinity mine near Sophia in Raleigh County would create 254 mining jobs, and as many as 1,300 spinoff jobs. The company plans to spend $115 million to rehabilitate the former Eastern Associated Coal mine.

It's one of two projects United Coal plans for West Virginia. The Register-Herald reports that United Coal plans to open a similar sized mine in Randolph County in 2013. That operation is expected to employ up to 300 miners.


Lose some, win some.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...6b9ecfafebce79a5852578170056a179!OpenDocument

EPA’s decision to stop mining waste discharges to high quality streams at the Spruce No. 1 mine was based on several major environmental and water quality concerns. The proposed mine project would have:

· Disposed of 110 million cubic yards of coal mine waste into streams.

· Buried more than six miles of high-quality streams in Logan County, West Virginia with millions of tons of mining waste from the dynamiting of more than 2,200 acres of mountains and forestlands.

· Buried more than 35,000 feet of high-quality streams under mining waste, which will eliminate all fish, small invertebrates, salamanders, and other wildlife that live in them.

· Polluted downstream waters as a result of burying these streams, which will lead to unhealthy levels of salinity and toxic levels of selenium that turn fresh water into salty water. The resulting waste that then fills valleys and streams can significantly compromise water quality, often causing permanent damage to ecosystems and streams.

· Caused downstream watershed degradation that will kill wildlife, impact birdlife, reduce habitat value, and increase susceptibility to toxic algal blooms.

· Inadequately mitigated for the mine’s environmental impacts by not replacing streams being buried, and attempting to use stormwater ditches as compensation for natural stream losses.


Great job EPA.
 
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It doesn't make sense to create jobs in America because of, inter alia, environmental constraints. The class of Americans who create jobs has no incentive to do so in America. No amount of cajoling or shame will change that fact.

I like my drinking water to taste good and not be the cause of my demise.

If you are right about the lack of incentive for the class of job creators in America, then let them create jobs in other countries.
You cannot mine coal in China. That is something that the Chinese people already do for themselves. Which, by the way, will account for all of the technologies that American companies are currently teaching to the Chinese. Every American manufacturing company in China will eventually be put out of business by their workers of today.

I like your use of the word "class" for the aforementioned group. This is still the land of opportunity. The opportunity to kick a whole class to the curb is alive and well. Went belly up in China? Sorry, we're not accepting foreign companies at this time.

We'll all be able to become billionaires selling bottled water to China in the near future. Unless it's poisonous.
 
I like my drinking water to taste good and not be the cause of my demise.

If you are right about the lack of incentive for the class of job creators in America, then let them create jobs in other countries.
You cannot mine coal in China. That is something that the Chinese people already do for themselves. Which, by the way, will account for all of the technologies that American companies are currently teaching to the Chinese. Every American manufacturing company in China will eventually be put out of business by their workers of today.

I like your use of the word "class" for the aforementioned group. This is still the land of opportunity. The opportunity to kick a whole class to the curb is alive and well. Went belly up in China? Sorry, we're not accepting foreign companies at this time.

We'll all be able to become billionaires selling bottled water to China in the near future. Unless it's poisonous.

Americans are at war with each other. They're too busy to carry coal to Cardiff.
 
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