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Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

Yes they do..

In fact dear Reagan was instrumental in keeping depots around the world in power. He saved Saddam's ass against the Iranians by feeding Saddam intel and weapons tech to help keep the war at a stalemate and not a defeat. Reagan was also in control when South Korea had yet another coup in which another dictator took over.. oh and yes the US had even troops in the country. The US also backed various right wing dictators through out central and south America.. Pinochet for one.

:) care to guess what the percentage of South and Central Americans who lived under representative government in the late 70's v the late 80's was?
 
Considering they reiterate the bizarrely annual claim that repression is growing in China I do not care much for what they have to say.

What is so bizarre about stating the simple truth? Oh, that's right... mister ChiCom lover coming again to defend anything and everything about the thugs in Beijing...
 
Is this intended to be a sign of increasing repression? That seems to be how these organizations play it. They focus on individual cases and ignore the big picture.

Liu Xiaobo? Increased persecution of Falun Gong and Christians, among others... the Great Firewall of China... imprisonment of attorneys seeking compensation for the Wenchuan earthquake victims... and it goes on and on...
 
Liu Xiaobo? Increased persecution of Falun Gong and Christians, among others... the Great Firewall of China... imprisonment of attorneys seeking compensation for the Wenchuan earthquake victims... and it goes on and on...

You are talking about things that have been going on for a long time. There is no increase at all. People like you just prefer to ignore all the progress and focus on select cases to try and distort reality.
 
and have been ramped up; Liu Xiaobo being kept from accepting a Nobel Peace Prize wouldn't have happened in 2003.

the Chinese regime (and I don't think many people see this) is fundamentally weak, and slowly cracking. as it cracks, it will resort to increased repression to shore itself up. up until it reaches a zenith of opposition and repression; which will be a very dangerous moment indeed.
 
You are talking about things that have been going on for a long time. There is no increase at all. People like you just prefer to ignore all the progress and focus on select cases to try and distort reality.

What progress? Please enlighten us. The intensity has intensified. You have in the past shown your willingness to defend Beijing and spout their propoganda. I have lived there, I am conversant in the language, and have contacts inside the country -- all of which paint a very different picture than what Beijing apologists like you paint...
 
and have been ramped up; Liu Xiaobo being kept from accepting a Nobel Peace Prize wouldn't have happened in 2003.

the Chinese regime (and I don't think many people see this) is fundamentally weak, and slowly cracking. as it cracks, it will resort to increased repression to shore itself up. up until it reaches a zenith of opposition and repression; which will be a very dangerous moment indeed.

Of course, the concern is who takes over after Hu leaves the scene. The PLA leadership is seen as gaining more importance in governing circles in Beijing. This is NOT a good thing. As bad as Hu and his cohorts are, the PLA leadership would be significantly worse...
 
and have been ramped up; Liu Xiaobo being kept from accepting a Nobel Peace Prize wouldn't have happened in 2003.

He wasn't in prison in 2003. There is no ramping up. I doubt they would have let someone in prison accept a Nobel Peace Prize in 2003 either.

the Chinese regime (and I don't think many people see this) is fundamentally weak, and slowly cracking. as it cracks, it will resort to increased repression to shore itself up. up until it reaches a zenith of opposition and repression; which will be a very dangerous moment indeed.

I hear this from your side all the time. Get your head out of the Cold War myth and get back to reality please.

What progress? Please enlighten us. The intensity has intensified. You have in the past shown your willingness to defend Beijing and spout their propoganda. I have lived there, I am conversant in the language, and have contacts inside the country -- all of which paint a very different picture than what Beijing apologists like you paint...

You call me an apologist, but I am just a realist with objectivity unlike you and I imagine also unlike your "contacts" in China. That you do not know of what progress there has been indicates you are either not as well-informed as you think or you are willfully ignoring such progress.
 
Of course, the concern is who takes over after Hu leaves the scene. The PLA leadership is seen as gaining more importance in governing circles in Beijing. This is NOT a good thing. As bad as Hu and his cohorts are, the PLA leadership would be significantly worse...

yup. as bad as a totalitarian plutocracy is, a bunch of psycho-jingoists is far worse.
 
:) care to guess what the percentage of South and Central Americans who lived under representative government in the late 70's v the late 80's was?

Oh there were less in the late 80s no doubt about that, but saying Reagan was the reason those dictatorships were defeated is just idiotic. He and his government backed most of those dictatorships for god sake and they pretty much all resulted in the "left" took over, and were anti-American and are to this day.
 
You call me an apologist, but I am just a realist with objectivity unlike you and I imagine also unlike your "contacts" in China. That you do not know of what progress there has been indicates you are either not as well-informed as you think or you are willfully ignoring such progress.

Do you speak Mandarin? Can you read Chinese? Have you ever lived in China? What is your knowledge base? You have already parroted the line of the ChiCom leadership on so many other issues that you can't be taken seriously. Your lack of understanding of treaty law as you have displayed earlier is also troubling.

It is also noted that you call yourself objective, yet you offer no explanation of the improvement in China. The reality is it is NOT better. It worsened while I lived in China in the 1990s and it is no better now than when I left the country.
 
China was an awesome place when I was there. Beats Kazakhstan.
 
Oh there were less in the late 80s no doubt about that, but saying Reagan was the reason those dictatorships were defeated is just idiotic. He and his government backed most of those dictatorships for god sake and they pretty much all resulted in the "left" took over, and were anti-American and are to this day.

like colombia, for example.


as opposed to anti-American nations like Venezuela.
 
What's it doing wrong?

Existing apparently. Seriously, he insists on me providing proof of progress, but considering the last time I did he just insisted it was all lies it is obvious his problem is not really with the government of China. These are the same people who any time China reveals some new technology insist it was ripped off something from Russia or the U.S. and when China wins a gold medal at the Olympics they immediately jump to the conclusion that China must have been cheating. In the U.S. those same people rail about how the Chinese are stealing all our jobs. When said people treat any talk of reform, even actual laws, as being just lies to deceive the West the notion of it being about criticizing the government quickly flies out the window. It is racist fear-mongering plain and simple.
 
1. China did cheat at the olympics. as i recall, for example, some of their 'athelets' in female gymnastics were too young. that doesn't mean that every gold winner is suspect, it just means that the chinese regime is willing to do things like cheat (or have a different girl sing and lip-sync) in order to gain artificial prestige.

2. China does rip off technology. in fact, it rips off massive amounts of technology. that new "stealth" fighter? give you a hint; the country that technology was developed in rhymes with "Shamerica"

3. there is nothing racist whatsoever about criticizing a totalitarian and abusive regime like China's. that is a myth, and one that the CCP deliberately spreads in order to (pathetically) deflect criticism.
 
Existing apparently. Seriously, he insists on me providing proof of progress, but considering the last time I did he just insisted it was all lies it is obvious his problem is not really with the government of China. These are the same people who any time China reveals some new technology insist it was ripped off something from Russia or the U.S. and when China wins a gold medal at the Olympics they immediately jump to the conclusion that China must have been cheating. In the U.S. those same people rail about how the Chinese are stealing all our jobs. When said people treat any talk of reform, even actual laws, as being just lies to deceive the West the notion of it being about criticizing the government quickly flies out the window. It is racist fear-mongering plain and simple.

Are you calling me a racist? Sorry, I have far more experience in this part of the world than you do, son.
 
1. China did cheat at the olympics. as i recall, for example, some of their 'athelets' in female gymnastics were too young. that doesn't mean that every gold winner is suspect, it just means that the chinese regime is willing to do things like cheat (or have a different girl sing and lip-sync) in order to gain artificial prestige.

2. China does rip off technology. in fact, it rips off massive amounts of technology. that new "stealth" fighter? give you a hint; the country that technology was developed in rhymes with "Shamerica"

3. there is nothing racist whatsoever about criticizing a totalitarian and abusive regime like China's. that is a myth, and one that the CCP deliberately spreads in order to (pathetically) deflect criticism.

You see, that would make sense if it weren't for the fact nothing can convince you. If I told you about how the principles of stealth are widely known and any group of capable flight engineers could build a stealth fighter based on publicly-available information without the need to steal anything you would probably come up with some excuse for why that isn't the case with China. Just like when I prove the claims about increasing repression false you would inevitably say my information is some sort of lie or show put on by the government.

Sorry, but when people consistently attack a country in such a manner there is no way I can accept the defense that it is just criticism of the government. You may say it, but I have a feeling when pressured your real feelings will be a hell of a lot less limited.
 
You see, that would make sense if it weren't for the fact nothing can convince you. If I told you about how the principles of stealth are widely known and any group of capable flight engineers could build a stealth fighter based on publicly-available information without the need to steal anything you would probably come up with some excuse for why that isn't the case with China. Just like when I prove the claims about increasing repression false you would inevitably say my information is some sort of lie or show put on by the government.

Sorry, but when people consistently attack a country in such a manner there is no way I can accept the defense that it is just criticism of the government. You may say it, but I have a feeling when pressured your real feelings will be a hell of a lot less limited.

But it is being reported that it was built with technology that they gleaned from a part of a shot down aircraft from the late 1990s, not from publically available information.

What people like you don't understand is that when we criticize China, we are talking about the GOVERNMENT not the people or the country as a whole. I LOVE China, its people and its culture, but it's GOVERNMENT stinks...
 
But it is being reported that it was built with technology that they gleaned from a part of a shot down aircraft from the late 1990s, not from publically available information.

It is being reported by Western media citing U.S. military sources. That is hardly surprising. Anyone who is being at least a little honest would have to acknowledge that if this Chinese stealth fighter crashed in territory the U.S. has access to we would have our people scouring the land for any scrap of it we could find. No one would suggest that was all about ripping off Chinese technology.

Just because some "military source" cited in a newspaper says something does not mean it is true. In fact, you should not rule out that the source is being used to spread disinformation.

What people like you don't understand is that when we criticize China, we are talking about the GOVERNMENT not the people or the country as a whole. I LOVE China, its people and its culture, but it's GOVERNMENT stinks...

Funny, because when you say that dishonest apologies are part of Chinese culture and make a number of other comments that clearly only refer to the Chinese people and culture as opposed to its government you make that claim hard to believe. Your constant insistence that any sign of progress is really a lie also causes me to doubt your insistence that this is just about the government.
 
It is being reported by Western media citing U.S. military sources. That is hardly surprising. Anyone who is being at least a little honest would have to acknowledge that if this Chinese stealth fighter crashed in territory the U.S. has access to we would have our people scouring the land for any scrap of it we could find. No one would suggest that was all about ripping off Chinese technology.

I heard on French radio that Serbian sources were also cited, saying that many foreigners (including Asians) came in and acquired parts of the plane. I am not implying that the Chinese did anything illegal, but simply noting what is out there...

Just because some "military source" cited in a newspaper says something does not mean it is true. In fact, you should not rule out that the source is being used to spread disinformation.

Didn't way it was true. However, it is from more than a "military source". Serbian sources also were cited on French radio.


Funny, because when you say that dishonest apologies are part of Chinese culture and make a number of other comments that clearly only refer to the Chinese people and culture as opposed to its government you make that claim hard to believe. Your constant insistence that any sign of progress is really a lie also causes me to doubt your insistence that this is just about the government.

And if you noted, I also said it of Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese. Now, while I note that we have serious concerns about Korean honesty and intregity, it is also part of our own culture here in Taiwan. Unlike some people, I can acknowledge some of the less savory parts of our culture without hating the culture. I happen to love Taiwan as it is my home, but I also love the Chinese and Japanese as well...
 
What's it doing wrong?

Well let's see: censoring newspapers, the Great Firewall of China, rounding up political dissidents, oppressing members of the Falun Gong sect and Christians, and having a judicial system where the verdict is usually decided by government officials before the trial even takes place. Things have certainly improved since the days of Mao. Things in China could improve more, but the Party has a history of loosening restrictions only to tighten them again.
 
I heard on French radio that Serbian sources were also cited, saying that many foreigners (including Asians) came in and acquired parts of the plane. I am not implying that the Chinese did anything illegal, but simply noting what is out there...

I would hardly expect them to pass up the opportunity to study any U.S. technology. Know thine enemy.

Didn't way it was true. However, it is from more than a "military source". Serbian sources also were cited on French radio.

Except they were not the ones claiming the Chinese fighter was a rip-off were they?
 
I would hardly expect them to pass up the opportunity to study any U.S. technology. Know thine enemy.

And did you see me criticize the Chinese on this point? Once again, showing to the world that I am FAR more objective on China-related matters than you, my Chi-Com apologist friend.

Except they were not the ones claiming the Chinese fighter was a rip-off were they?

Except that it seems that some of the technology was, in fact, likely based on some elements of U.S. tech, which is not at all surprising.
 
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