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Kiss your 100-watt lightbulb goodbye

Jerry said:
Money isn't the issue, though it may be your only concern in life. I'll do it to give the environmentalists the finger, of course.

Being in construction, I know a valid home regulation when I see one....this is not valid.
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that's pretty nuts, actually, assuming you are serious.
 
liblady said:
i don't understand why you would do that, when the replacement bulbs will generate just as much light for lower cost.
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Ok but seriously, here's how I know this is just a bull-**** law:

The number 1 cause for high power usage is excessive convection (drafts) and conduction (poor insulation). This is what causes folks to run high-power air conditioners in the summer and heaters in the winter.

Light bulbs rate about as low as leaving a radio on. Light bulbs consume less power from a home than a heating-bulb/rock for a pet snake; or a modest aquarium.

Any honest effort to reduce energy consumption begins with repairing older homes to reduce drafts and increase the R-value of the walls and ceiling. One fast and cheap way to do that is by adding a storm window/door to the outside of the existing window/door. No need to rip the old one out, just put a new layer over the old, in most cases.

The second cause for power consumption is heating water. This is easily fixed by installing a flash-heater in stead of trying to maintain a large water tank full of hot water. Using natural gas (propane) is also a great cost saver.
 
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Jerry said:
Money isn't the issue, though it may be your only concern in life. I'll do it to give the environmentalists the finger, of course.

Being in construction, I know a valid home regulation when I see one....this is not valid.
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being in construction you will appreciate this...
we had a 5' long cabinet over the washer and dryer, and it literally fell off the wall. It was held to the wall with 6 long finishing nails.
No screws, no 1x2 under the cabinet to give it added support.
The guy who did that was "in construction"....:(
 
Jerry said:
Ok but seriously, here's how I know this is just a bull-**** law:

The number 1 cause for high power usage is excessive convection (drafts) and conduction (poor insulation). This is what causes folks to run high-power air conditioners in the summer and heaters in the winter.

Light bulbs rate about as low as leaving a radio on. Light bulbs consume less power from a home than a heating-bulb/rock for a pet snake; or a modest aquarium.

Any honest effort to reduce energy consumption begins with repairing older homes to reduce drafts and increase the R-value of the walls and ceiling. One fast and cheap way to do that is by adding a storm window/door to the outside of the existing window/door. No need to rip the old one out, just put a new layer over the old, in most cases.

The second cause for power consumption is heating water. This is easily fixed by installing a flash-heater in stead of trying to maintain a large water tank full of hot water. Using natural gas (propane) is also a great cost saver.
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Correct, infiltration is a big issue, but insulation gets all the attention. My neighbor, a mechanical engineer, complained that his unfinished basement was drafty and too cold for the kids to play in. As soon as I walked down the stairs, I could see that the foundation walls were done poorly, and there were significant gaps between the top of the concrete basement walls, and the wood sill plate (terminology?), and no sill sealer. He caulked, added some foam insulation around the perimeter, and it made a ton of difference. I can't wait to see how the new building codes (Architecture 2030 building codes) work out. They are designed to cut energy use by 50%....
 
UtahBill said:
being in construction you will appreciate this...
we had a 5' long cabinet over the washer and dryer, and it literally fell off the wall. It was held to the wall with 6 long finishing nails.
No screws, no 1x2 under the cabinet to give it added support.
The guy who did that was "in construction"....:(
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Omg lol point taken :lol: I have a degree in construction sciences and 10 years experience in residential remodeling :2wave:

Yeah any Joe Shmuck who picks up a hammer can claim to "be in construction". I've been using it to pay the bills for a while.
 
UtahBill said:
Correct, infiltration is a big issue, but insulation gets all the attention. My neighbor, a mechanical engineer, complained that his unfinished basement was drafty and too cold for the kids to play in. As soon as I walked down the stairs, I could see that the foundation walls were done poorly, and there were significant gaps between the top of the concrete basement walls, and the wood sill plate (terminology?), and no sill sealer. He caulked, added some foam insulation around the perimeter, and it made a ton of difference. I can't wait to see how the new building codes (Architecture 2030 building codes) work out. They are designed to cut energy use by 50%....
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I bet that didn't cost him very much, either....a weekend job with time left over to BBQ.
 
It was my BIL, found that out later when he said he helped build our house...
 
Jerry said:
I bet that didn't cost him very much, either....a weekend job with time left over to BBQ.
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cheap bastard never did invite me to any bbq....
 
Kudos to California! Without this type of leadership we all face a very bleak energy future and who can credibly argue with the same light for less money.
 
Catawba said:
Kudos to California! Without this type of leadership we all face a very bleak energy future and who can credibly argue with the same light for less money.
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California needs to smoke more pot, lots more.
 
Deuce said:
Not all jobs are worthwhile. We don't let people hunt whales for whale oil anymore, much to the dismay of whalers. (except for the Japanese and their "research" anyway. :roll: )

What business is this all of government? When your archaic lightbulbs put a heavy load on equally archaic, but taxpayer-funded, power lines, they have some business in it.
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I’m not sure which is more disturbing, the apathy so many have towards continued governmental usurpation of their freedoms and liberties or comments like this that typically go unabated.

Can you please provide a link or reference to support your assertion that power lines are taxpayer funded? Perhaps you meant to imply that in some areas the power lines are owned by the public and failed to mention that they are privately owned in other areas? Or maybe you really didn’t mean “taxpayer-funded” but rather meant to say “government regulated”?

Let’s just assume for the sake of argument though that the government does take your tax dollars and give them to the big energy companies. I assume that most liberals would find this an outrageous waste of their money. Aren’t you angry about it?

Or maybe you support our tax dollars being given to these evil energy companies because it then allows you to make the argument that government can and should control how much energy we are allowed to use because our tax dollars fund it. Why wouldn’t you just demand that the government stop paying these energy companies and perhaps use that money instead to educate the public on the benefits of these better light bulbs rather than dictate what light bulbs are allowed?

I thought the whole point behind government regulation of the energy companies was to prevent monopolies and control prices on a commodity essential to the livelihood of the citizens. If you support continued and expanding government control over the energy industry aren’t you actually creating the most powerful monopoly imaginable?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
 
GPS_Flex said:
I’m not sure which is more disturbing, the apathy so many have towards continued governmental usurpation of their freedoms and liberties or comments like this that typically go unabated.

Can you please provide a link or reference to support your assertion that power lines are taxpayer funded? Perhaps you meant to imply that in some areas the power lines are owned by the public and failed to mention that they are privately owned in other areas? Or maybe you really didn’t mean “taxpayer-funded” but rather meant to say “government regulated”?

Let’s just assume for the sake of argument though that the government does take your tax dollars and give them to the big energy companies. I assume that most liberals would find this an outrageous waste of their money. Aren’t you angry about it?

Or maybe you support our tax dollars being given to these evil energy companies because it then allows you to make the argument that government can and should control how much energy we are allowed to use because our tax dollars fund it. Why wouldn’t you just demand that the government stop paying these energy companies and perhaps use that money instead to educate the public on the benefits of these better light bulbs rather than dictate what light bulbs are allowed?

I thought the whole point behind government regulation of the energy companies was to prevent monopolies and control prices on a commodity essential to the livelihood of the citizens. If you support continued and expanding government control over the energy industry aren’t you actually creating the most powerful monopoly imaginable?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
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What really disturbs me is a country already 40 years behind in energy planning now grousing about leadership to provide the same light for less money? Speaking as someone who has waited 40 years for the market place to catch up, it is about time we had some leadership in government for energy efficiency. I can tell you from experience, if we wait for the energy "industry" to look out on our behalf, you are going to be waiting a long time, more time than we have to address our energy problems.
 
Catawba said:
What really disturbs me is a country already 40 years behind in energy planning now grousing about leadership to provide the same light for less money? Speaking as someone who has waited 40 years for the market place to catch up, it is about time we had some leadership in government for energy efficiency. I can tell you from experience, if we wait for the energy "industry" to look out on our behalf, you are going to be waiting a long time, more time than we have to address our energy problems.
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I can only think of a salient phrase at this point....."Government is not the solution to our problems, Government is the problem...." -Reagan


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I can only think of a salient phrase at this point....."Government is not the solution to our problems, Government is the problem...." -Reagan


j-mac
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LOL! How appropriate to quote the father of our energy crisis! I needed that, thanks!
 
Catawba said:
LOL! How appropriate to quote the father of our energy crisis! I needed that, thanks!
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Energy crisis? Wth is that really? Are you talking about brownouts? If so then perhaps your state should look into building a nuclear power plant. Instead of regulating everyone on any little thing they can find.

As far as the OP goes...

I am for the new bulbs. They do save me money and I'm careful enough that I won't break one. *knocks on wood* I use em all the time. That said I'm really getting tired of government intrusions into the private and business sectors. It is not governments job to tell private citizens how to conduct thier lives or businesses on the micro scale.
 
molten_dragon said:
I really find it hard to care about this much one way or the other. I switched over to compact fluorescents about 3 years ago and have no desire to switch back. My electric bill has been noticeably cheaper since I got them, and I've not had to replace a single bulb in that 3 years.
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Don't feel too secure with your CFLs. LEDs are even better, and they will probably also be mandated in the future. All flashlights, and some cars, have them now.

ricksfolly
 
PeteEU said:
No consumers are stupid because they do not have all the information. And if it was not for the government forcing people to do stuff, then the US still would have slavery and women could not vote.. think about that.
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The government didn't just up one day and change that.
They slowly changed policies that came under fire - heavy and constant fire - from the people.

Many states had no problems ratifying various measure and adopting different pracitces that gave more people equality.

Not saying it's 100% truth - but many changes begin and end with the people's pressure.

Like it or not, the consumers and the "free market" is not fast enough more than often to implement better technology for safety or conservation. If it was not for laws and rules then things like seat belts in cars would not be mandatory. Even to this day, the generation that grew up during the "optional" period has a damn hard time in remembering the belt, which is why many cars have the "beep beep beep" alarm (which some turn off.....) to remind people to put on the seat belt.

And like it or not, old style bulbs might be cheap (for now) but energy wise they are pigs. Add into that, the fact that they last far shorter than energy saving bulbs, then an energy saving bulb is very quickly "earned" back despite that the bulb it self is more expensive. But consumers do not think like that in most cases. Hell the UK had the problem last year when the bulbs were banned for sale... people complained about the light from energy savers being "not good enough" to "did not like it" and all sorts of excuses. When presented with the energy saved and money, then very few actually continued with the same tone. Those that did continue with the tone were usual 50+ in age.

So while you might think this is another intrusion by government on the lives of people, this intrusion makes a whole lot of sense. Think about the energy save if everyone went to energy saving bulbs? Aint it a right wing platform to get rid of energy dependence on foreign oil? Well this is one of many ways of doing it.
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Kal'Stang said:
Energy crisis? Wth is that really? Are you talking about brownouts? If so then perhaps your state should look into building a nuclear power plant. Instead of regulating everyone on any little thing they can find.

As far as the OP goes...

I am for the new bulbs. They do save me money and I'm careful enough that I won't break one. *knocks on wood* I use em all the time. That said I'm really getting tired of government intrusions into the private and business sectors. It is not governments job to tell private citizens how to conduct thier lives or businesses on the micro scale.
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Perhaps you are not aware that we passes peak oil in this country in 1970, and that it now requires Middle East wars to keep us supplied with energy. You don't see that as a crisis? Hell I've been waiting for government leadership in energy for 40 years!
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I think that it's rich that you weren't particularly concerned about the longterm toxic effects of millions of gallons of oil spilled gulf, but you're all up in arms about a miniscule amount of mercury in lightbulbs.

It's entertaining to watch your positions shift on the basis of what Rush limbaugh has been bitching about today.
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What's even richer, is passing law that mandates the use of light bulbs, filled with mercury that will find it's way into underground water supplies; all in the name of environmental protection.
 
Catawba said:
Perhaps you are not aware that we passes peak oil in this country in 1970, and that it now requires Middle East wars to keep us supplied with energy. You don't see that as a crisis? Hell I've been waiting for government leadership in energy for 40 years!
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Anybody that believes in peak oil, also believes in global waming and the tooth fairy.
 
apdst said:
What's even richer, is passing law that mandates the use of light bulbs, filled with mercury that will find it's way into underground water supplies; all in the name of environmental protection.
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have we done that?
 
apdst said:
Anybody that believes in peak oil, also believes in global waming and the tooth fairy.
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And is not one of 150 million blessed rightwing americans with the vision to show the rest of planet earth the way to return to a glorious and shiny past that never existed?
 
UtahBill said:
In the ubercons defense, mercury has been shown to affect our extemeties, like hands, feet, head......nuff said?:(
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Apparently, some of the ubercons have spent too much time marinating their heads in gulf oil.
 
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