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Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim

The Giant Noodle

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ARRRRRRGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :doh


Victims of clerical sex abuse have reacted furiously to Pope Benedict's claim yesterday that paedophilia wasn't considered an “absolute evil” as recently as the 1970s.
In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.
“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.
“It was maintained — even within the realm of Catholic theology — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than' and a ‘worse than'. Nothing is good or bad in itself.”

Read more: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage among victims - World news, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk[/COLOR][/LEFT]
 
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For a moral authority that "has remained constant throughout history" they sure fiddle a lot at the Vatican ;)

Meh, anyone who still thinks the Pope has divine authority has been seriously misled.
 
So lets get this straight


Birth Control is evil

Raping little boys and girls good


Man the RCC is messed up, perhaps molesting childern was the norm in the church, but having grown up in the 70s and 80s I dont recall child molestation as being something considered normal
 
I don't suppose any Pope or Christian haters would care to see the actual text of the remarks, would they? No, they'd probably prefer to take someone elses word for what was written because it prevents them from clouding their minds with such trivial thins as 'facts'.

Address by the Holy Father on the occasion of Christmas greetings to the Roman Curia

We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.
In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.

Isn't it amazing how a few words seem completely different, when you actually surround them with ALL the words spoken, instead of cherry picking just a few and presenting those?
 
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“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

:rofl
Oh - oh - oh
And so we look to the 70's for truth and prosperity!

Merry Christmas - Santa was probably porking his elves and IT'S OK!
 
For a moral authority that "has remained constant throughout history" they sure fiddle a lot at the Vatican ;)

Meh, anyone who still thinks the Pope has divine authority has been seriously misled.

No one except Catholics have every thought this.
 
I don't suppose any Pope or Christian haters would care to see the actual text of the remarks, would they? No, they'd probably prefer to take someone elses word for what was written because it prevents them from clouding their minds with such trivial thins as 'facts'.

Address by the Holy Father on the occasion of Christmas greetings to the Roman Curia




Isn't it amazing how a few words seem completely different, when you actually surround them with ALL the words spoken, instead of cherry picking just a few and presenting those?

after all, it's not as though people don't have enough REAL issues with the curch. no reason to invent them.
 
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We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light.

Whovian, can you explain what that last sentence means? What exactly is the Pope trying to say?

There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times.

There is no civilized society in which child pornography is "considered more and more normal." What the hell is he talking about??

From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13).

So? What exactly is his point?

In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.

What does this have to do with pedophilia within the Catholic Church?

In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children.

Again, I ask you: What do you think that means?

This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.

This is pure gibberish. Where's an acknowledgement that the Catholic Church failed its parishoners? Failed itself? Where's an apology? He should have kept his mouth shut.

If you think reading it in full makes it any better, you're mistaken. IMO.
 
Whats the context? Someone could say "Child Porn is becoming more normal in society." And mean it either as a warning or a good thing.

For example what do gay marriage supporters say all the time "Being gay is being more normal and accepted in society every day."
And what do non supporters say "Being gay is being more normal and accepted in society every day."
 
The fact that the age of consent in the Vatican City is only 12 years may or may not have something to do with his statement..
 
Whovian, can you explain what that last sentence means? What exactly is the Pope trying to say?
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
There is no civilized society in which child pornography is "considered more and more normal." What the hell is he talking about??
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
So? What exactly is his point?
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
What does this have to do with pedophilia within the Catholic Church?
Why does it have to relate to that?
Again, I ask you: What do you think that means?
That to "resist these forces" that theorized "paedophilia was ... something fully in conformity with man and even with children"we need to "turn our attention to their ideological foundation".
This is pure gibberish. Where's an acknowledgement that the Catholic Church failed its parishoners? Failed itself? Where's an apology? He should have kept his mouth shut.
The highlighted part is cited as a "fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos."
If you think reading it in full makes it any better, you're mistaken. IMO.
You have somehow totally missed the mark and have turned the clear words into their opposite.

GL
 
The fact that the age of consent in the Vatican City is only 12 years may or may not have something to do with his statement..

Actually, you're full of ****...

Ages of consent in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Vatican does not have its own separate criminal code. Instead, in matters of criminal law, as per Article 3 of the "Law of the Source of Law" (one of the six fundamental laws adopted upon ratification of the Lateran Treaty in 1929) the Vatican State generally uses current Italian national law, as well as regional and municipal laws for Rome, as long as they do not conflict with ecclesiastical law or laws specifically promulgated by Pope for the Vatican.[39]

As a result, the age of consent is the same as that of Italy.

Before January 1, 2009, the adoption by the Vatican of changes made by Italy in its laws was automatic. Effective January 1, 2009, the Vatican adoption of changes in Italian law is no longer automatic but comes into effect only after a review.[40] However, as Italy adopted its present age of consent before January 1, 2009, this change in Vatican policy does not affect the age of consent in Vatican City, which remains the same as that of Italy.

The claim is sometimes found that "In the Vatican State, there is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age",[41] but this is not correct. The misunderstanding derives from the fact that Vatican Law follows Italian law. In 1929, when the Lateran Treaty was signed, the age of consent in Italy was 12,[42] and so the same was true then in Vatican City. However, since that time the Italian law has been changed, and so the laws of Vatican City (in accordance with the policy that was in place until January 1, 2009) changed automatically with them.

Since there has been no change in the Italian age of consent since January 1, 2009, the two remain identical with no further review by the Vatican.
 
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
That the world is wicked and is becoming inured to these things.
Why does it have to relate to that?
That to "resist these forces" that theorized "paedophilia was ... something fully in conformity with man and even with children"we need to "turn our attention to their ideological foundation".
The highlighted part is cited as a "fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos."
You have somehow totally missed the mark and have turned the clear words into their opposite.

GL

Hi, Simon. I know you spent a lot of time responding, but, seriously, I still do not understand what the pope was trying to say. So far, what I do understand from you is that he said the world is wicked and that it is becoming inured to these things. (I do not agree.) You say this: "That to "resist these forces" that theorized "paedophilia was ... something fully in conformity with man and even with children"we need to "turn our attention to their ideological foundation". What does that mean? Honestly, it makes no sense at all to me. And, please, don't bother insulting me in your response as few others understand it either.

Can you paraphrase what he said? The entire context? I would thank you sincerely if you would.
 

Yeah, it's 14. Big freakin' difference.

The age of consent in Italy is 14 years, with a close-in-age exception that allows those aged 13 to engage in sexual activity with partners who are less than 3 years older. The age of consent rises to 16 if one of the participants has some kind of influence on the other (e.g. teacher, tutor, adoptive parent).[8] Not knowing the fact that the victim is underage is not a legal defense.[9] It is also illegal to perform sexual acts in the presence of a minor with the intent of allowing the minor to witness the acts, even if they do not take an active part.[10]

See also related Wikisource articles from the Italian Criminal Code (in Italian). See also more related articles from Interpol website (in French).

Ages of consent in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
OK.. so.. you blame Vatican City for the legal age of consent in the entire country of Italy... even though they follow Italian law, not the other way around? Kind of bass-ackwards.

No. I blame the pope for making a statement that insinuated that, since that's the case, it wasn't "evil" then:

In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself.

Where's the apology? Where's the regret? Where's an admission of the total abject failure of the Catholic Church to protect the least of us?
 
The pope is nothing but another politician with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

His vague wandering speech reminds me of when Bill Clinton got his hand caught in the cookie jar. Clinton issued that famous line "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." Total baloney by someone caught. Watch the show COPS and you can hear the same lame answers from the crooks trying to explain their actions.

The only difference between Clinton and the Pope is that Clinton's cookie jar was over 21 yrs old and the Pope's cookie jar was around age 9.
 
Thanks, Whovian. It is a little creepy to hear that Italy's age of consent is 14...

I wonder if that means it's okay if they're 14....? Interesting. Not being smart-pantsed, but I can see a conflict there.

I understand your dilema. However, if Vatican City were to start enacting their own laws on anything, they would have haters out there whining about how Italian law isn't good enough for them... or how dare the Pope enact such and such...
 
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