CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

TurtleDude said:

He has the mindset that if you do well you have to reward others for your good luck because they exist. Its like the valedictorian being told he has to give half of his A grades to the slackers merely because they are in his class or spend half his time set aside for studying to tutor the retards

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So the coal miners who dig the coal, the truck drivers who drive the trucks, the machine operators who toil endless hours on the machines, the security guards who risk their lives (and sometimes lose them) are the "slackers" ? All while Jim-mansion fishes out on the Gulf of Mexico for Yellow Fin Tuna and Sailfish, on his 50 ft. cabin cruiser, checking in with the plant manager on his cell phone ?

So if the coal miner, the security guard, the truck driver and the machine operator don't find themselves on that fishing boat talking on the cell phone, than they must be "slacking", huh ?
Not hard to see who telling the truth here, and who's not. (View of the Independent.)

You know, calling yourself an "independent" so as to claim some kind of objectivity is pretty lame when you post fringist drivel.

Protectionist said:

So the coal miners who dig the coal, the truck drivers who drive the trucks, the machine operators who toil endless hours on the machines, the security guards who risk their lives (and sometimes lose them) are the "slackers" ? All while Jim-mansion fishes out on the Gulf of Mexico for Yellow Fin Tuna and Sailfish, on his 50 ft. cabin cruiser, checking in with the plant manager on his cell phone ?

So if the coal miner, the security guard, the truck driver and the machine operator don't find themselves on that fishing boat talking on the cell phone, than they must be "slacking", huh ?
Not hard to see who telling the truth here, and who's not. (View of the Independent.)

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more leftwing drivel. People accept jobs and the wages that come with them. and the people we are talking about are the ones who aren't working hard. You seem to have alot of envy.

TurtleDude said:

this idiotic drivel that business owners are thieves consigns your posts to the nutcase fringe list. feeding stray cats results in more stray cats meaning more dead songbirds.

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It doesn't result in more stray cats, because in addition to the feeding of them I, et al, also participate in TNR. AS for the songbirds, I also have 5 bird feeders, and a birdbath in my backyard for them to get a cool drink on a hot day here in Florida.

Interesting how your perspective on the stray cats talks about "more stray cats". So while you obviously were oblivious to the TNR, it appears your idea is to let them starve to death (and that would keep them from reproducing). Well, that seems to be consistent with your horrendous attitude toward people, and letting starve, be foreclosed, be unemployed, go without healthcare, and other such obscene greed ramifications.

As for your perspective of the nutcase fringe, it shows you are further out in that direction than I previously thought. Rather than snicker devilishly, when hearing all those lies (about wealth distribution and taxes) from Hannity and Beck, I'm now having to think that you are actually believing them. Watch out you don't get committed.

Protectionist said:

It doesn't result in more stray cats, because in addition to the feeding of them I, et al, also participate in TNR. AS for the songbirds, I also have 5 bird feeders and a birdbath in my backyard for them to get a cool drink on a hot day here in Florida.

Interesting how your perspective on the stray cats talks about "more stray cats". So while yo obvious were oblivious to the TNR, you it appears your idea is to let them starve to death (and that would keep them from reproducing). Well, that seems to be consistent with your horrendous attitude toward people, and letting starve, be foreclosed, be unemployed, go without healthcare, and other such obscene greed ramifications.

As for your perspective of the nutcase fringe, it shows you are further out in that direction than I previously thought. Rather than snicker devilishly, when hearing all those lies (about wealth distribution and taxes) from Hannity and Beck, I'm now having to think that you are actually believing them. Watch out you don't get committed.

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you never mentioned TNR so how was I "oblivious to it". The rest of your post is envious drivel. Subsidizing dependency increases dependency. Tell me what happens if you stop feeding those strays and those birds?

Harshaw said:

As usual, we have someone who can't handle the idea that saying one favors less taxes is not the same as saying one should not pay any taxes.

And for someone who keeps saying he's done with me because I'm "dishonest," this harangue has multiple levels of irony.



This is too childish to bear any response other than this: :roll:

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the real mystery here is that your posts bear no relationship to the posts of mine that you reproduce setting up your ..... what are they actually? 'observations'? ..... 'comments'? ...... 'musings? .... 'opinions'?

Regardless of what they may be, they fail to speak to the points I raise. But is there anything new about your posts?

Harshaw said:

You know, calling yourself an "independent" so as to claim some kind of objectivity is pretty lame when you post fringist drivel.

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Calling the truth "fringist" doesn't make it be that. In fact, it shows that you are who is out on the fringe, away from the majority of American people (check the polls) who disagree with your "fringist" (thanks for the word) views. As for calling myself an Independent, well that's what it says on my voter ID card (what does yours say ?), and that's also what prevents me from voting in the Republican or Democratic primaries, so that qualifies me to call myself that, as does my views on issues, many of which agree with Democrats, and many which agree with Republicans. Nice try though.

TurtleDude said:

He has the mindset that if you do well you have to reward others for your good luck because they exist. Its like the valedictorian being told he has to give half of his A grades to the slackers merely because they are in his class or spend half his time set aside for studying to tutor the retards

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You really have no understanding of any kind as to what it means to be a member in a larger society. Your comparisons are lame beyond belief and have no vlaidity or utility of any sort. Your use of a slur such as RETARDS speaks volumes about you and your complete lack of character.

TurtleDude said:

you never mentioned TNR so how was I "oblivious to it". The rest of your post is envious drivel. Subsidizing dependency increases dependency. Tell me what happens if you stop feeding those strays and those birds?

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Maybe they would be almost as angry as you, from the thought that those of us who are working hard to feed your greed, might stop feeding it, you think ? :lol:
Sorry I couldn't hold back laughing on that one. You guys keep asking to be put down every time you open your mouths. This is too funny.

So yeah, we should stop feeding your dependency on the current (unusually low) tax rate of 35%, and raise it back to where it was for decades (40s 50s, 60s,) in the 90+ % bracket, right ? (by your logic).

haymarket said:

You really have no understanding of any kind as to what it means to be a member in a larger society. Your comparisons are lame beyond belief and have no vlaidity or utility of any sort. Your use of a slur such as RETARDS speaks volumes about you and your complete lack of character.

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your parrot squawking that I don't understand stuff is getting old. What bothers y ou is I do understand what makes your type tick and behind all that altruistic facade is a seething pool of greed.

Protectionist said:

Maybe they would be almost as angry as you, from the thought that those of us who are working hard to feed your greed, might stop feeding it, you think ? :lol:
Sorry I couldn't hold back laughing on that one. You guys keep asking to be put down every time you open your mouths. This is too funny.

So yeah, we should stop feeding your dependency on the current (unusually low) tax rate of 35%, and raise it back to where it was for decades (40s 50s, 60s,) in the 90+ % bracket, right ? (by your logic).

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nothing screams loser louder than whining about the winners. if you aren't willing to pay 90% taxes on your next dollar you have no standing to demand others do so

haymarket said:

You really have no understanding of any kind as to what it means to be a member in a larger society. Your comparisons are lame beyond belief and have no vlaidity or utility of any sort. Your use of a slur such as RETARDS speaks volumes about you and your complete lack of character.

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As does his use of the word "slackers", as I pointed out a half hour ago in my 1:01pm post.

haymarket said:

You really have no understanding of any kind as to what it means to be a member in a larger society. Your comparisons are lame beyond belief and have no vlaidity or utility of any sort. Your use of a slur such as RETARDS speaks volumes about you and your complete lack of character.

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I enjoy reading the threads a lot more after I put a few of the worst ubercons here on ignore...

TurtleDude said:

nothing screams loser louder than whining about the winners. if you aren't willing to pay 90% taxes on your next dollar you have no standing to demand others do so

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Nothing screams loser louder than the faux rich who beat their breast simultaneously crying about their oppression from the government but then proclaiming that they are winners. If you are not willing to pay your fair share of taxes on all your dollars then you should find a nation more to your liking.

UtahBill said:

I enjoy reading the threads a lot more after I put a few of the worst ubercons here on ignore...

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That is very understandable Bill. The only problem I have with that is that it then permits them to do their political missionary work unchallenged and without fear of being confronted with both truth and reality. And that only serves their interests and goals.

But I certainly understand the temptation. eace

TurtleDude said:

your parrot squawking that I don't understand stuff is getting old. What bothers y ou is I do understand what makes your type tick and behind all that altruistic facade is a seething pool of greed.

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How can I be guilty of greed when I do not want one penny of yours for myself? As far as understanding me, I have not seen any evidence that you even understand yourself or your own selfish motivations as of yet. Clean your own house before going down the street elsewhere. There is no excuse for slurs such as RETARDS here. For you to feel you can use that and not be called out for it is a sign just how far removed you are from decent society.

Protectionist said:

Calling the truth "fringist" doesn't make it be that. In fact, it shows that you are who is out on the fringe, away from the majority of American people (check the polls) who disagree with your "fringist" (thanks for the word) views.

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Oh? What are my views?

As for calling myself an Independent, well that's what it says on my voter ID card

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So what? It's a self-selection, exactly like your lean here.

(what does yours say ?)

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"Other."

But it's irrelevant anyway; I don't make any claims that my views are more enlightened and reasonable simply because I've called myself this or that.

Harshaw said:

Oh? What are my views?




So what? It's a self-selection, exactly like your lean here.




"Other."

But it's irrelevant anyway; I don't make any claims that my views are more enlightened and reasonable simply because I've called myself this or that.

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This is your view > "..calling yourself an "independent" so as to claim some kind of objectivity is pretty lame when you post fringist drivel."

And I don't claim "fringist " anything. My view on tax cuts for the rich (opposition to them) is in harmony with the majority of the American people - that's not "fringist".

So what ? So you were trying to say that I just call myself an Independent, and am not really that. FALSE accusation proven by the voter choice of Independent, which disqualifies one from voting in the primaries. That sacrifice is what defines one as an Independent, not just what you call yourself. Get it ?

As for the statement "I don't make any claims that my views are more enlightened and reasonable simply because I've called myself this or that", OK, so that's what you don't do.
And I don't either. But I do claim that my views are more reasonable than those of Democrats and Republicans, who take positions to go along with their party platforms (whether they agree with them or not), and my views therefore are just that > More reasonable, for that very reason (not because of what I call myself - it's because of what I am) something you obviously have missed the point entirely on (as evidenced by this last statement of yours). Get it ?

Protectionist said:

This is your view > "..calling yourself an "independent" so as to claim some kind of objectivity is pretty lame when you post fringist drivel."

And I don't claim "fringist " anything. My view on tax cuts for the rich (opposition to them) is in harmony with the majority of the American people - that's not "fringist".

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Uh, yeah. As if that's the only thing you posted about.

So what ? So you were trying to say that I just call myself an Independent, and am not really that. FALSE accusation proven by the voter choice of Independent, which disqualifies one from voting in the primaries.

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Now, that's hilarious. "I'm an independent, and I prove it because I SAY I am. Case closed."

I haven't said or implied a word about party affiliation at any point along the way, so you shadowbox with a strawman.

As for the statement "I don't make any claims that my views are more enlightened and reasonable simply because I've called myself this or that", OK, so that's what you don't do.
And I don't either. But I do claim that my views are more reasonable than those of Democrats and Republicans, who take positions to go along with their party platforms (whether they agree with them or not), and my views therefore are just that > More reasonable, for that very reason (not because of what I call myself - it's because of what I am) something you obviously have missed the point entirely on (as evidenced by this last statement of yours). Get it ?

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Wow. I'll let the self-ownage speak for itself.

haymarket said:

How can I be guilty of greed when I do not want one penny of yours for myself? As far as understanding me, I have not seen any evidence that you even understand yourself or your own selfish motivations as of yet. Clean your own house before going down the street elsewhere. There is no excuse for slurs such as RETARDS here. For you to feel you can use that and not be called out for it is a sign just how far removed you are from decent society.

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you want others to be taxed so your party wins elections. That is greed. And you have no clue what decent society is.

haymarket said:

Sounds to me like you turned into a cynical, selfish and angry old man trying to isolate themselves from society

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Funny... between you and Arcana I span the decades of being a young'n, and an old man.

I am someone who has seen government fail people miserably, and in the process hurt everyone as they thieve the wealth of those best able to assist... by creating jobs... and dare I say more wealth. You also assume the wealthy are a static group. Not true. It's a group in flux... BUT when the government gets greedy and aggressive... it makes upward mobility even more difficult, not less.

and using government as the excuse for your personal animosity towards others.

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I have animosity towards a government that lies to its people about its intent, abuses the system they swore to uphold, and creates a class of people wholly ignorant about what makes for the greatest good for the greatest number. Remember, I was once an idiot too... but I sought truth, and when confronted with the choice of accepting the truth or clinging to a pathetic, destructive ideology... I can say I chose wisely.

If you prefer "growing up" that is up to you. It is sad that you lost your idealism. Perhaps you will someday see the light.

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I didn't lose my idealism, and if you knew who I was, what I do, and how I go about my business, you would have to concede I am an idealist. A perfectionist. Someone who is willing to forgo larger profits to deliver exceptional quality... every damn time. For the millions people entrust in me... it is the best business model, and later on... I expect will generate greater profits. If not, I can sleep well knowing I had given my clients the best possible service, and protected their interests to the utmost of my abilities. But when it comes to politics, I will not let emotion replace rational thought. Doing so only hurts people. It is not compassion or compassionate, it is destructive.

you do not have even the basic concept of taxation, its legal foundations, its intent, its purposes and its value to a society like ours.

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Dare I say you are wholly ignorant about taxation, and the founding of this nation. Just a simple question. If you tax something, the result is what exactly? Encouraging or trying to curtail a behavior? And in this world, where money can move, businesses can move, people can move, and people are skilled to do the job for less, and their government isn't as greedy somewhere else... what do you think will happen when taxes are punitive?

Here is what happens when you try to sock it to the wealthy:

Online NewsHour: Effects of repeal of the federal luxury tax on boats -- January 1, 1996

KWAME HOLMAN: Joe Dockery is, in a word, rich, on this particular day, rich enough to take delivery on this 72-foot sailing yacht, custom-designed and built by Alden Yachts of Portsmouth, Rhode Island. Cost: $2 1/2 million.

KWAME HOLMAN: These are the carpenters, fiberglass, and metal workers, electricians who actually did the work...They are not rich, but their glad Joe Dockery is. His one order alone kept 20 workers employed full-time...

KWAME HOLMAN: Joe Dockery... wouldn't even consider having his new boat built ...until Congress repealed the federal luxury tax on boats. That tax would have cost him about $240,000, a bill he could afford but refused to pay.

JOE DOCKERY: You're being chosen as a special person to pay extra, and I didn't see the logic behind it. I found it insulting. I was very close to building a boat in Finland, I mean, very close.

KWAME HOLMAN: According to David MacFarlane, president of Alden Yachts, ...thinks back to November 1990, when President Bush and the Democratic majority in Congress agreed to levy the luxury tax. He says he still can't believe they did it.

DAVE MacFARLANE, Alden Yachts: I don't know anybody in the Marine industry that didn't know that there was a total disaster to start, and it's still amazing to think how somebody could come up with an idea that would shut off a business, and everybody that was in the business knew this would happen, and yet it floated right through.

KWAME HOLMAN: The theory behind the luxury tax sounded simple enough. Congress believed anyone willing to spend $100,000 or more on a new boat surely would be willing to pay an additional 10 percent to the federal government. (WRONG) But that didn't happen. Rather than pay the tax, many people in the market to buy a boat either didn't buy one, or bought one overseas. As a result, the luxury tax didn't bring in much money at all, and the customers' reluctance to buy put the boat-building business, particularly here in Rhode Island, out of business. We first visited Rhode Island in June of 1992. The luxury tax had been in effect for 18 months. Tens of thousands of jobs had been lost across the country, thousands in Rhode Island alone.
...

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So what happened? The little guys depending on the greedy rich guys to buy a boat or some other luxury item... got screwed. You want full employment, you want a vigorous economy, you want higher tax revenues coming into the Feds... then cut taxes, and get off the sad and sick Class Warfare Horsey.

JFK, like Reagan... espoused this economic belief... because it works every time it is tried. A job is the best social program anyone could have.

.

zimmer said:

Funny... between you and Arcana I span the decades of being a young'n, and an old man.

I am someone who has seen government fail people miserably, and in the process hurt everyone as they thieve the wealth of those best able to assist... by creating jobs... and dare I say more wealth. You also assume the wealthy are a static group. Not true. It's a group in flux... BUT when the government gets greedy and aggressive... it makes upward mobility even more difficult, not less.

I have animosity towards a government that lies to its people about its intent, abuses the system they swore to uphold, and creates a class of people wholly ignorant about what makes for the greatest good for the greatest number. Remember, I was once an idiot too... but I sought truth, and when confronted with the choice of accepting the truth or clinging to a pathetic, destructive ideology... I can say I chose wisely.

I didn't lose my idealism, and if you knew who I was, what I do, and how I go about my business, you would have to concede I am an idealist. A perfectionist. Someone who is willing to forgo larger profits to deliver exceptional quality... every damn time. For the millions people entrust in me... it is the best business model, and later on... I expect will generate greater profits. If not, I can sleep well knowing I had given my clients the best possible service, and protected their interests to the utmost of my abilities. But when it comes to politics, I will not let emotion replace rational thought. Doing so only hurts people. It is not compassion or compassionate, it is destructive.

Dare I say you are wholly ignorant about taxation, and the founding of this nation. Just a simple question. If you tax something, the result is what exactly? Encouraging or trying to curtail a behavior? And in this world, where money can move, businesses can move, people can move, and people are skilled to do the job for less, and their government isn't as greedy somewhere else... what do you think will happen when taxes are punitive?

Here is what happens when you try to sock it to the wealthy:


So what happened? The little guys depending on the greedy rich guys to buy a boat or some other luxury item... got screwed. You want full employment, you want a vigorous economy, you want higher tax revenues coming into the Feds... then cut taxes, and get off the sad and sick Class Warfare Horsey.

JFK, like Reagan... espoused this economic belief... because it works every time it is tried. A job is the best social program anyone could have.

.

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So it never occured to you that "trickle down" is a laughingstock. Bush tried it by lowering taxes in 2003. Since then, the US economy has been struggling (partly also because of Bush's terrible immigration policies, now being continued, if not worsened, by Obama).

Simple fact is, when you put money in poor people's hands (the Have-Nots), they go to the stores (AKA the economy) and buy all the things that they "Have-Not", stimulating the economy. That's what happens when taxes are (as you call it), "punitive".

You put money into rich people's hands (the Haves), and they don't go to the stores to buy all the things they already "Have". In addition, when rich people do spend their money, they spend a much higher % of it OUTSIDE the country, where it does no good to the country's economy, and in fact, worsens it by removing cash from it. Great for Europe and the Caribbean, huh ?

Harshaw said:

Uh, yeah. As if that's the only thing you posted about.



Now, that's hilarious. "I'm an independent, and I prove it because I SAY I am. Case closed."

I haven't said or implied a word about party affiliation at any point along the way, so you shadowbox with a strawman.



Wow. I'll let the self-ownage speak for itself.

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Absolutely, it speaks for itself, but not for "self-ownage" (whatever that's supposed to be). Creating a new language as you go along, are you ?

Harshaw said:

Uh, yeah. As if that's the only thing you posted about.



Now, that's hilarious. "I'm an independent, and I prove it because I SAY I am. Case closed."

I haven't said or implied a word about party affiliation at any point along the way, so you shadowbox with a strawman.



Wow. I'll let the self-ownage speak for itself.

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Absolutely, it speaks for itself, but not for "self-ownage" (whatever that's supposed to be). Creating a new language as you go along, are you ? :roll:

As for "party affiliation", yes you did. you've been talking about me being an Independent all along. What do you think that word means ? My voter ID card reads "NPA" - that stands for No Party Affiliation AKA Independent (as if you didn't know). And you don't prove it because of what you say. You prove it by how you register to vote. Man, don't you ever get anything right ???????
Any more tutoring here, and I'm going to have to start charging you ($5/word). Bwa ha ha ha (Burt Reynolds laugh) :lol:

TurtleDude said:

you want others to be taxed so your party wins elections. That is greed. And you have no clue what decent society is.

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What load of crap. It reminds me of when the manure truck spilled out on Biffs car in BACK TO THE FUTURE.

People who use words like RETARDS have no business criticizing others. No business at all. You have disgraced yourself beyond redemption.

I want others to simply pay their share of taxes to have a decent America for all Americans. And you call that greed? Its a strange world you inhabit there in the Turtle McMansion.

Zimmer - that little skit from a bad situation comedy was not even funny.

Or relevant.