• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

You do not even make sense.

On the contrary; I make perfect sense. You simply have no idea what the words you type actually mean, apparently:

Rather strange construction in a society based on individual liberty. Do you think that was a mistake?

If we once had such a society, that day is long dead and buried. But the modern libertarian romantic fiction of what we were is just that - a romantic fiction that might as well be King Arthur and his noble knights. We no longer live in that world with those realities. You either adapt to the changing world or you die and are eaten.
 
On the contrary; I make perfect sense. You simply have no idea what the words you type actually mean, apparently:

Haymarket's stock response to uncomfortable counterpoints is to claim it doesnt make sense. He might well be right. rational thought and logic really are not sensible to those whose positions tend to be emotionally grounded.
 
I have no doubt that there is a point that makes sense to you somewhere in your own mind.

turtle, your own positions here are the most emotionally based I have seen on this board. Every one of them is based on your own ego, your own selfishness and your own justification of what you think you are.
 
Last edited:
No - you tried to squeeze in your personal cause celebre - the progressive income tax - in your rant about SC decisions and precedent. You were talking about the roof leaking but then decided to scream about the basement at the same time because its part of the house. Its almost a pathological obsession with you that you cannot even control or moderate.

More psychobabble. its you you cannot control your desire to demand the wealth of others. we merely ask to be left alone and to merely pay the same rate as others. You demand we pay a higher rate than you do. Yo are not even willing to apply your own demands on yourself, that is hypocrisy
 
Haymarket's stock response to uncomfortable counterpoints is to claim it doesnt make sense. He might well be right. rational thought and logic really are not sensible to those whose positions tend to be emotionally grounded.

And refusal to own up to his own words. Even now, as I present them back to him in full.
 
I have no doubt that there is a point that makes sense to you somewhere in your own mind.

shall we compare IQ's and comprehension?:lamo:mrgreen:
 
And refusal to own up to his own words. Even now, as I present them back to him in full.

personal responsibility is anathema to the left. they outsource that to the government
 
And refusal to own up to his own words. Even now, as I present them back to him in full.

Apparently, what you delude yourself into believing my words mean , are not what my words mean. But if you want to follow Alice down the rabbit hole, be my guest.
 
More psychobabble. its you you cannot control your desire to demand the wealth of others. we merely ask to be left alone and to merely pay the same rate as others. You demand we pay a higher rate than you do. Yo are not even willing to apply your own demands on yourself, that is hypocrisy

You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about where our laws come from. We live in a representative democracy and it is our elected representatives who pass the laws you seem to loathe about taxation.
 
You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about where our laws come from. We live in a representative democracy and it is our elected representatives who pass the laws you seem to loathe about taxation.

our laws come from various things--pandering to the masses is one source. and in a society where quantity often trumps quality, that is a given
 
Apparently, what you delude yourself into believing my words mean , are not what my words mean. But if you want to follow Alice down the rabbit hole, be my guest.

Then you should have written what you actually wanted to say -- whatever that is -- because what your words mean is plain as day. You said if we ever lived in a society based on individual liberty -- and that was probably a myth -- that world is dead and gone and people like me who think we do need to get with the times. There's no other way to read your words. Your problem.
 
our laws come from various things--pandering to the masses is one source. and in a society where quantity often trumps quality, that is a given

Again with the smug, self righteous snobbery painting yourself as the informed elite above the unwashed masses. This is indeed pathological with you.
 
personal responsibility is anathema to the left. they outsource that to the government

While mocking antiquated, mythical notions of things like "individual liberty," yes.
 
While mocking antiquated, mythical notions of things like "individual liberty," yes.

freedom-the freedom to fail for example-terrifies the liberal.
 
Again with the smug, self righteous snobbery painting yourself as the informed elite above the unwashed masses. This is indeed pathological with you.

do you pretend to be a psychologist as well as a patriot?
 
Then you should have written what you actually wanted to say -- whatever that is -- because what your words mean is plain as day. You said if we ever lived in a society based on individual liberty -- and that was probably a myth -- that world is dead and gone and people like me who think we do need to get with the times. There's no other way to read your words. Your problem.

Actually what I said was

If we once had such a society, that day is long dead and buried. But the modern libertarian romantic fiction of what we were is just that - a romantic fiction that might as well be King Arthur and his noble knights. We no longer live in that world with those realities. You either adapt to the changing world or you die and are eaten.

You seem to confuse several things in an attempt to turn what I said into a Frankenstein monster version of it in a pathetic attempt to score points with those who worship before the same altar you do.

The days of 1776 and 1787 are indeed dead and gone and that is beyond dispute. We are no longer a nation of 4 million farmers and small merchants. We are no longer isolated from the rest of the world. We are no longer huddled along a rather narrow strip of land along the eastern seaboard. We no longer are a inconvenient backwater that means little to the rest of the world.

The idea of liberty above all is a myth. It was a fiction. Slave owners writing flowery statements about the equality of man and the rights of men. What garbage and hypocrisy. The America that libertarians want to believe existed back in 1787 never really existed for many and certainly has not existed for a long long time.

That is the reality of it all.

I did write what I wanted to say and said it. Your problem, as before, is you see yourself as some sort of Star Chamber prosecutor who thinks he is clever and has a witness under the harsh light and can dispatch him with a mere quip or witticism.

You keep ignoring the reality that nobody here believes in abolishing liberty or the complete abolishing of government. All any of us are doing is arguing about is the margins. But such an admission of reality takes the shine of your white knight outfit and makes you just like everybody else with no more moral claim than the rest of us.
 
Last edited:
do you pretend to be a psychologist as well as a patriot?

Reading and understand what you write about yourself in post after post after post is not a difficult task.
 
Actually what I said was

If we once had such a society, that day is long dead and buried. But the modern libertarian romantic fiction of what we were is just that - a romantic fiction that might as well be King Arthur and his noble knights. We no longer live in that world with those realities. You either adapt to the changing world or you die and are eaten.

Yes, and this was in response to my statement that ours is a society based on individual liberty. (How this is a controversial statement is entirely beyond me. Didn't you claim to be a school teacher at some point?)

Of course, the problem is that it's YOU who made a "Frankenstein monster" out of what I said and are now projecting that failing onto me. It would be better for you simply to admit it, but you're obviously all in.
 
Yes, and this was in response to my statement that ours is a society based on individual liberty. (How this is a controversial statement is entirely beyond me. Didn't you claim to be a school teacher at some point?)

Of course, the problem is that it's YOU who made a "Frankenstein monster" out of what I said and are now projecting that failing onto me. It would be better for you simply to admit it, but you're obviously all in.

Why you persist in totally and completely twisting this is only for you to know.

Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?

You want to believe the hype instead of the reality because the hype serves your modern purposes better than the reality does.
 
Why you persist in totally and completely twisting this is only for you to know.

Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?

You want to believe the hype instead of the reality because the hype serves your modern purposes better than the reality does.

You're going to have to make up your mind.

When I say that YOU say us being a society based on individual liberty is a myth, you go ape****, saying I'm twisting your words.

And here, you say it once again in no uncertain terms, again somehow saying I'm twisting words by claiming we are a society based on individual liberty.

So, I'm twisting your words when I say you deny we're a society based on individual liberty, and I'm also twisting things by claiming we are a society based on individual liberty.

You've confused yourself beyond all recognition -- and it's pretty damn funny. :rofl
 
You need a detailed flow chart to make sense of what you think you are saying. It would make a major league box score look simple. But this is not the first time you have attempted this and it seems to make sense to you, at least in your own mind.

Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?
 
Last edited:
Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?

Then it is as I said, and you deny we're a society founded on individual liberty.

Whew. We've got that one settled. Of course, it was clear when you posted it the first time, but at least now you've manned up to it. Yet, you're most likely still going to try to deny it somehow.
 
Then it is as I said, and you deny we're a society founded on individual liberty.

Whew. We've got that one settled. Of course, it was clear when you posted it the first time, but at least now you've manned up to it. Yet, you're most likely still going to try to deny it somehow.

two different points here that can exist together without contradicting each other

1- America gave some of its people a bit more individual liberty than other societies did -

2- American denied some of its people even a tiny bit of liberty keeping them in slavery while proclaiming pious platitudes about equality and liberty for all

The America that existed at that time, for both groups, is dead and gone and not returning. So for modern libertarians to wallow in this idea of America being founded on liberty is not as clear cut or as self evident as some would have it appear. The reality is not the hype. And the reality does not make for good bumper sticker cliches.
 
two different points here that can exist together without contradicting each other

1- America gave some of its people a bit more individual liberty than other societies did -

2- American denied some of its people even a tiny bit of liberty keeping them in slavery while proclaiming pious platitudes about equality and liberty for all

The America that existed at that time, for both groups, is dead and gone and not returning. So for modern libertarians to wallow in this idea of America being founded on liberty is not as clear cut or as self evident as some would have it appear. The reality is not the hype. And the reality does not make for good bumper sticker cliches.

Then you continue to confirm exactly what I said. You're so confused, you don't even know what you're arguing against (or for) anymore.
 
Back
Top Bottom