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CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

Barbbtx said:
I think maybe liberals mistakenly think there is only so much wealth to go around so it must be taken from the rich so the poor won't be poor. They want to take pieces of someone else's pie instead of baking their own whole pie, when all the ingredients are there. (Thanks John Stossel)
He said something like that. :)
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You do realize that actual welfare as a percent of the budget is immaterial no?
 
TurtleDude said:
since you aren't in the top 5% where do you get off making such claims about what we notice or don't notice

you seem to think that everyone making a few hundred k have expenses or obligations no higher than yours. If somone has 100K in disposable income after taxes etc and have 2 kids at Ivy league schools a 12,000 dollar tax increas is going to be a major pain.

I know you think such a person ought to tell his kids to take student loans or drop out of Dartmouth and go to a community college

since the rich already pay for far more than they use, they are the ones who should least face a tax increase.
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If they take student loans with 100,000 disposable income they can pay it off easily in a few years. I don't feel any sympathy to those who have a 100,00 of DISPOSABLE income. Especially when so many barely get by at all.
 
WeAreReborn said:
If they take student loans with 100,000 disposable income they can pay it off easily in a few years. I don't feel any sympathy to those who have a 100,00 of DISPOSABLE income. Especially when so many barely get by at all.
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I know you think if there are poor people it is wrong for there to be very rich people. SInce I didn't make anyone poor I have no duty to pay for their problems.
 
TurtleDude said:
I know you think if there are poor people it is wrong for there to be very rich people. SInce I didn't make anyone poor I have no duty to pay for their problems.
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To better evaluate this situation, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get rich?

Edit: This being because the majority of people who are in the top 5% do not get rich off of their own labor. This is true for all of the top 1%.
 
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WeAreReborn said:
To better evaluate this situation, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get rich?

Edit: This being because the majority of people who are in the top 5% do not get rich off of their own labor. This is true for all of the top 1%.
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since you posted an obvious falsehood, I will answer you when you actually are truthful

the majority of millionaires are first generation. and who cares how they got rich. unless it was from criminal activity its really none of your concern. they don't owe you anything.
 
WeAreReborn said:
To better evaluate this situation, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get rich?

Edit: This being because the majority of people who are in the top 5% do not get rich off of their own labor. This is true for all of the top 1%.
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I initially wrote a very long self aggrandizing response...but I decided instead to answer with two things. 1-Hard work and 2-Preparation for the future.
 
TurtleDude said:
since you posted an obvious falsehood, I will answer you when you actually are truthful

the majority of millionaires are first generation. and who cares how they got rich. unless it was from criminal activity its really none of your concern. they don't owe you anything.
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I wasn't implying they inherited it at all. I was talking about exploiting the worker who work under them. Through means of owning a business. I can not imagine a billionare who doesn't have anyone working below him/her.
 
WeAreReborn said:
I was talking about exploiting the worker who work under them. Through means of owning a business. I can not imagine a billionare who doesn't have anyone working below him/her.
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How dare they employ people!

Selfish bastards.
 
RightinNYC said:
How dare they employ people!

Selfish bastards.
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How dare they employ people to give them a miniscule wage when compared to what the product's profit is sold for. And yeah the top 1% is selfish. If they weren't they wouldn't be the top 1%..
 
WeAreReborn said:
How dare they employ people to give them a miniscule wage when compared to what the product's profit is sold for.
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If the salary is too low, they can find a job elsewhere that will give them a salary more in line with what they deserve. If they can't find jobs elsewhere that will pay more, then they're earning something commensurate with what they're worth.

Newsflash: Your salary is not tied to the profit of whatever your company sells its products for.

And yeah the top 1% is selfish. If they weren't they wouldn't be the top 1%..
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Freshman poli sci logic at its finest.
 
RightinNYC said:
If the salary is too low, they can find a job elsewhere that will give them a salary more in line with what they deserve. If they can't find jobs elsewhere that will pay more, then they're earning something commensurate with what they're worth.
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There is very few worker's run businesses that operate at a truly fair wage system.

Newsflash: Your salary is not tied to the profit of whatever your company sells its products for.
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Wouldn't that make more sense?

Freshman poli sci logic at its finest.
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Just basic common sense.
 
WeAreReborn said:
There is very few worker's run businesses that operate at a truly fair wage system.
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So go out and start one. If they're actually a good idea and not just laughably inefficient and poorly run gimmicks, I'm sure it will be wildly successful.

Wouldn't that make more sense?
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No, not at all. A janitor who sweeps the floor of a company that makes products with 100% profit margins should not make more than a janitor who sweeps the floor of a company that makes products with a 5% profit margin.

Just basic common sense.
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Lots of things seem like common sense if you don't really think them through.
 
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RightinNYC said:
No, not at all. A janitor who sweeps the floor of a company that makes products with 100% profit margins should not make more than a janitor who sweeps the floor of a company that makes products with a 5% profit margin.
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Makes sense enough. I suppose I was more thinking that if a company makes a massive amount it should distribute some of the profits instead of going to the CEO, the most idle of the workers in the company.


Lots of things seem like common sense if you don't really think them through.
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How am I wrong?
 
RightinNYC said:
So go out and start one. If they're actually a good idea and not just laughably inefficient and poorly run gimmicks, I'm sure it will be wildly successful.
.
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See, here's the thing. The affluent business owners wouldnt like this happening in their own businesses, so that's why they are so rare. The ones that do exist are quite successful! You've never heard of a cooperative?
 
WeAreReborn said:
I wasn't implying they inherited it at all. I was talking about exploiting the worker who work under them. Through means of owning a business. I can not imagine a billionare who doesn't have anyone working below him/her.
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Can you imagine running an actual business? Or having an actual job? Someday in this wonderful system of ours you will have the opportunity to do more than actually talk about how evil others are or how much better you would do it or giving lip service to causes while you expect the government to redistribute wealth and to provide for everyone...You can actually lead the way...start this wonderful business that hires and treats everyone as equals. History shows us this utopian model works so WELL that it has FLOURISHED throughout the world...right?

Cant WAIT to see it.
 
Z3n said:
See, here's the thing. The affluent business owners wouldnt like this happening in their own businesses, so that's why they are so rare. The ones that do exist are quite successful! You've never heard of a cooperative?
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Of COURSE! They lead the industrial world!

Except of course...most co-ops actually require the CO part to be equal contributing partners.
 
VanceMack said:
Can you imagine running an actual business? Or having an actual job? Someday in this wonderful system of ours you will have the opportunity to do more than actually talk about how evil others are or how much better you would do it or giving lip service to causes while you expect the government to redistribute wealth and to provide for everyone...You can actually lead the way...start this wonderful business that hires and treats everyone as equals. History shows us this utopian model works so WELL that it has FLOURISHED throughout the world...right?

Cant WAIT to see it.
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I know. Look at all of these cooperatives all over the United States and in western Europe. Some have helped impoverished latin and south american communities! The reason you are acting so naive is that you falsely equate state ownership with common ownership. State ownership is epic fail I agree
 
WeAreReborn said:
Makes sense enough. I suppose I was more thinking that if a company makes a massive amount it should distribute some of the profits instead of going to the CEO, the most idle of the workers in the company.
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This brilliant business insight must be based on your many years in the workforce, right?

How am I wrong?
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Because you implied that being selfish is part and parcel of becoming wealthy. That's just foolish, and based on nothing more than your own ignorance and prejudices.
 
Z3n said:
See, here's the thing. The affluent business owners wouldnt like this happening in their own businesses, so that's why they are so rare. The ones that do exist are quite successful! You've never heard of a cooperative?
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I've not heard of many that are successful, especially when compared to any real businesses. Care to enlighten me as to where all these massively successful hippie communes have been hiding?
 
RightinNYC said:
Because you implied that being selfish is part and parcel of becoming wealthy. That's just foolish, and based on nothing more than your own ignorance and prejudices.
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No I meant that if you have enough money to be consider part of the 1% wealthiest people in America, you are greedy by keeping all that luxury while the majority of the world starves.
 
Z3n said:
I know. Look at all of these cooperatives all over the United States and in western Europe. Some have helped impoverished latin and south american communities! The reason you are acting so naive is that you falsely equate state ownership with common ownership. State ownership is epic fail I agree
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Im sorry...where did I mention state ownership of ANYTHING? Co-ops DO work...they are very basic, small, individual businesses that share management and facility resources. But you are EXTREMELY naive if you dont think the partners share their largess unequally with their employees (where of course they HAVE employees).

But seriously...I cant WAIT til you are out there re-creating the industrial base.
 
RightinNYC said:
I've not heard of many that are successful, especially when compared to any real businesses. Care to enlighten me as to where all these massively successful hippie communes have been hiding?
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Again, like VanceMack your ignorance is so readily apparent on the matter. A commune is an entirely socialized community, I'm merely talking about the relationship to the means of production. Cooperatives are much more successful in terms of employee psychological and mental health, and are more egalitarian. I would love to give you an article on them but I don't know how to upload PDF's to this forum
 
WeAreReborn said:
No I meant that if you have enough money to be consider part of the 1% wealthiest people in America, you are greedy by keeping all that luxury while the majority of the world starves.
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If you make minimum wage, you are in the top few percent of the wealthiest people in the world. If you keep any of that money while the world starves, you're a selfish bastard who deserves to be burned at the state.

Make sense?
 
Z3n said:
Again, like VanceMack your ignorance is so readily apparent on the matter. A commune is an entirely socialized community, I'm merely talking about the relationship to the means of production.
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Yes, I'm well aware. I used the term hippie commune to demonstrate my disdain for the concept and my dismissal of your claim that these fantasies are in any way successful or common.

Cooperatives are much more successful in terms of employee psychological and mental health, and are more egalitarian. I would love to give you an article on them but I don't know how to upload PDF's to this forum
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I don't give a **** about PDFs discussing psychological health, I'm asking you for examples of these wildly successful coops. Come on, provide me with some links to coops that rival Google or GM.
 
Z3n said:
Again, like VanceMack your ignorance is so readily apparent on the matter. A commune is an entirely socialized community, I'm merely talking about the relationship to the means of production. Cooperatives are much more successful in terms of employee psychological and mental health, and are more egalitarian. I would love to give you an article on them but I don't know how to upload PDF's to this forum
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I consult with several professional co-ops. They hire an office manager (a disposable position that gets paid nowhere near what the professionals make). Many hire secretaries that take care of their scheduling and billing (and often themselves serve as the office manager). They are work from home employees that recieve no benefits. They farm out specialist work to others. The co-op environment has changed the standard office environment from mutliple offices employing several people to one office employing far fewer.

Again...cant WAIT til you get out in the real world and solve all the problems. Its going to be so COOL!!!

Wait...why arent you doing this stuff now?
 
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