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Nasa to make announcement about possible ET life find on Thursday

Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Cool - but I'm not confused.

Didn't they have a revelation when they discovered bacteria that thrived without oxygen?
As well as microbes and sea-cumbers that reveled in heat vents and plumes on the ocean floor?

They have known of bacteria that lives without oxygen for a long time. bacteria that live in anoxic (oxygen free or oxygen starved) regions are critical to the nitrogen cycle (denitrifying bacteria that converts nitrates into nitrogen gas) . The life in and around the oceanic plumes (as well as sulfur consuming cave bacteria) are significant because they depend ob a source of energy independent of the sun and photosynthesis.
 
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Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

They have known of bacteria that lives without oxygen for a long time. bacteria that live in anoxic (oxygen free or oxygen starved) regions are critical to the nitrogen cycle. The life in and around the oceanic plumes (as well as sulfur consuming cave bacteria) are significant because they depend ob a source of energy independent of the sun and photosynthesis.

So I take it an arsenic-dependent (or based?) lifeform would be *so much more different* because arsenic is usually toxic to all these aforementioned forms of life?

Then why is it in apple seeds?

(unabashedly ignorant of the whole subject)
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Cool - but I'm not confused.

Didn't they have a revelation when they discovered bacteria that thrived without oxygen?
As well as microbes and sea-cumbers that reveled in heat vents and plumes on the ocean floor?

The main difference if what Khandahar is saying is correct

the phosphorus atoms is a fundamental part of our DNA, being part of each of base pairs

That phosphorus atom has been replaced by arsenic a whole different atom, with different chemical charateristics

While not as fundamental difference in replacing carbon

I dont know if the other microbes and sea cucumbers have replace phosphorus with a different atom though
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

So I take it an arsenic-dependent (or based?) lifeform would be *so much more different* because arsenic is usually toxic to all these aforementioned forms of life?

thats a good part of it. all previously known life uses phosphorus (which is chemically very similar to arsenic). Arsenic reacts in much the same way as phosphorus because it is in the same periodic group (well the reason is deeper than this, but it works for this discussion). This rewrites the biochemistry books, and significantly broadens the potential for life in environments previously not considered.

Then why is it in apple seeds?

(unabashedly ignorant of the whole subject)



It is in your water and your body and your hair too (in trace amounts..unless someone has been spiking your meals with it). However it would wreak havoc with our cellular function, it is still a poison to us and to the apple tree, and <now virtually> all known lifeforms.
 
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Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

So I take it an arsenic-dependent (or based?) lifeform would be *so much more different* because arsenic is usually toxic to all these aforementioned forms of life?

Then why is it in apple seeds?

(unabashedly ignorant of the whole subject)

They take up arsenic into the plant material like they do iron and other minerals, some are used for biological functions (iron in blood for instance) but others are just taken up as the plant takes up water,
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Ok - I've reread and read these posts again and now I get it. . . thanks for explaining it :)

Neat, hunh?

New findings always makes me wonder just what else we don't know.
 
There are two threads on this subject. Shame most posters don't visit this forum more often.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

I think that if they do indeed announce that arsenic-based life is here on earth, it probably REDUCES the likelihood that life came to earth from space, because it means that abiogenesis isn't really that unusual.

Incorrect. Arsenic life does not provide evidence of a second instance of abiogenesis.


Dr Lewis Dartnell said:
“I would be really surprised if the bugs they’ve isolated actually incorporate arsenic into any of their key biomolecules as a substitute for phosphorus (in, for example, DNA or ATP) – I suspect that what they’ve got is a bug that is simply tolerant to the high arsenic concentrations, or possibly uses it somehow in its metabolism.”
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Incorrect. Arsenic life does not provide evidence of a second instance of abiogenesis.

That's not as cool. Therefore I choose to disbelieve it. :D
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

They have known of bacteria that lives without oxygen for a long time. bacteria that live in anoxic (oxygen free or oxygen starved) regions are critical to the nitrogen cycle (denitrifying bacteria that converts nitrates into nitrogen gas) . The life in and around the oceanic plumes (as well as sulfur consuming cave bacteria) are significant because they depend ob a source of energy independent of the sun and photosynthesis.

I'm impressed Marduc!

I'm presently trying to get the nitrobactors (aerobic) going on my rotating biofilter contact plates so I can add some fish to my 500 gallon system. Little critters don't multiply as fast as heterotrophs so I have to be patient. The nitrosomonas have just about got the ammonia down to zero though.

For those of you that have aquariums this is called "cycling" the tank.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Anybody know where the arsenic-based life rumor came from? Their press conference text doesn't seem to support it

NASA will hold a news conference at 2 p.m. EST on Thursday, Dec. 2, to discuss an astrobiology finding that will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life. Astrobiology is the study of the origin, evolution, distribution and future of life in the universe.

If they found non-phosphorus-based life here on earth, its impact on astrobiology would be rather indirect. It would be odd to tout the finding of a radically new terrestrial life form as "an astrobiology finding" and there would be a great deal of more important applications than the search for extraterrestrial life. I'm getting more skeptical that the rumor mill is on target
 
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Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Anybody know where the arsenic-based life rumor came from? Their press conference text doesn't seem to support it



If they found non-carbon-based life here on earth, its impact on astrobiology would be rather indirect. It would be odd to tout the finding of a radically new terrestrial life form as "an astrobiology finding" and there would be a great deal of more important applications than the search for extraterrestrial life. I'm getting more skeptical that the rumor mill is on target

The Telegraph confirmed it a few hours ago. NASA apparently released an overview to several media sources earlier today, but asked them not to break the story until a specified time. Additionally, the cast of speakers that NASA has lined up for the press conference tomorrow seems to suggest that, at the very least, it is SOMETHING related to life forms living in Mono Lake in Yosemite National Park that have some sort of unique relationship with arsenic.

There might be many applications to fields unrelated to astrobiology; only time will tell. But since NASA is the one backing this research, it's their story to break and obviously they're going to play up the aspects of the story that are most relevant and interesting to them.
 
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Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

The Telegraph confirmed it a few hours ago. NASA apparently released an overview to several media sources earlier today, but asked them not to break the story until a specified time. Additionally, the cast of speakers that NASA has lined up for the press conference tomorrow seems to suggest that, at the very least, it is something related to life forms living in Mono Lake in Yosemite National Park that have some sort of unique relationship with arsenic.

There might be many applications to fields unrelated to astrobiology; only time will tell. But since NASA is the one backing this research, it's their story to break and obviously they're going to play up the aspects of the story that are most relevant and interesting to them.

From the telegraph article (this one?) it sounds like they found an extremophile that uses arsenate groups rather than the phosphate groups found in ATP. It doesn't sound like a second instance of abiogenesis, or even a different type of DNA/RNA. I'm hoping for NASA's sake that there's something substantial yet to be revealed linking this discovery to astrobiology. While the finding of an extremophile with such a fundamentally different metabolism would be very interesting, calling it "an astrobiology finding" is a stretch and reeks of headline-grabbing sensationalism.

Still, I think I'll hold my judgement until after the press conference
 
There are two threads on this subject. Shame most posters don't visit this forum more often.

You mean don't visit this category more often? I posted it here first and it seemed Science was the right category.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

I have been checking BBC world news and have found nothing yet.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Awesome! If there is indeed arsenic based lifeforms on this planet that means the formation of living organisms has occurred not once but twice on planet Earth! If it happens twice on Earth then you sure as hell can take it to the bank that life is not an uncommon thing to be found in the universe.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

This story does raise a lot of questions:

How is this different from the bacteria around hydrothermal vents in the ocean that use hydrogen sulfide for energy?

The most prevalent chemical dissolved in vent water is hydrogen sulfide, which smells like rotten eggs. This chemical is produced when seawater reacts with sulfate in the rocks below the ocean floor. Vent bacteria use hydrogen sulfide as their energy source instead of sunlight. The bacteria in turn sustain larger organisms in the vent community.

And, life uses phosphorus as energy? I thought life as we know it used glucose, derived directly or indirectly from sunlight.

Are these bacteria arsenic based rather than carbon based? If that's the case, then they are different from anything else we know.

All interesting questions, and all related to questions about how life began, and whether and in what form it exists elsewhere in the universe.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

I posted this link on a sports forum, already has the Christians raging!

It was not my intent either, I just posted the link.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

I posted this link on a sports forum, already has the Christians raging!

It was not my intent either, I just posted the link.

Those who appose science, appose reality!
 
NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Know

NASA is holding a press conference today at 2pm to announce a major finding in their research in astrobiology, and speculation is high the agency said the finding "will impact the search for evidence of extraterrestrial life."

The news has leaked now, and while the discovery is not extraterrestrial life, NASA has indeed uncovered an entirely new form of life that "doesn't share the biological building blocks of anything currently living" on Earth

NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Know


Awesome!
 
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Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

I thought you were going to say that NASA just discovered life in Washington, D.C.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

Simply amazing.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

I think what we'll find (eventually) is that life is very stubborn as well as adaptive. Life that can live in arsenic could probably live in a methane/sulphuric acid base somewhere in the universe too. Just because our life is based on water and carbon doesn't mean diddly.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Looks like the organism incorporates arsenic into its DNA, which is quite fascinating. It also appears that the reason for the astrobiology hook is that the research was funded by NASA's astrobiology department and lead by a NASA Astrobiology Research Fellow. I withdraw my comments about sensationalism
 
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