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Netflix Partner Says Comcast ‘Toll’ Threatens Online Video Delivery

danarhea

danarhea

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Actually, there are 2 stories here, where one comes right on the heels of the other:

Level 3 Communications, a central partner in the Netflix online movie service, accused Comcast on Monday of charging a new fee that puts Internet video companies at a competitive disadvantage.
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And.............

WASHINGTON - Earlier today, modem manufacturer Zoom Telephonics filed a complaint at the FCC against Comcast, setting out a string of facts which show that the media giant is restricting consumer access to innovative devices by controlling the approval process for cable modems.
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First, Comcast has erected a toll booth for video content, and secondly, Comcast is putting a squeeze on it's competitors in the cable modem business, which Comcast already owns 40% of.

Want to know what really pisses me off? Companies like Comcast, whose directors scream platitudes about competition and free enterprise out of one side of their mouths, while working behind the scenes to stifle competition and free enterprise. These guys would absolutely love going back to the days of the "Trusts" that Teddy Roosevelt eventually dismantled via the Sherman Antitrust Act.

Comcast needs to be stomped on hard. Either that, or we'd better start getting used to this:

netneutrality2.jpg
 
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danarhea said:
Actually, there are 2 stories here, where one comes right on the heels of the other:



And.............



First, Comcast has erected a toll booth for video content, and secondly, Comcast is putting a squeeze on it's competitors in the cable modem business, which Comcast already owns 40% of.

Want to know what really pisses me off? Companies like Comcast, whose directors scream platitudes about competition and free enterprise out of one side of their mouths, while working behind the scenes to stifle competition and free enterprise. These guys would absolutely love going back to the days of the "Trusts" that Teddy Roosevelt eventually dismantled via the Sherman Antitrust Act.

Comcast needs to be stomped on hard. Either that, or we'd better start getting used to this:

netneutrality2.jpg
Click to expand...

Don't you think that Netflix should pay for shipping their movies? If they send it in the mail they pay, why not when they use a service that gets films to them and their customers quicker. Comcast spent billions building out an infrastructure to deliver the internet to homes. They need a return on their investment if they are to keep up our internet lines.
 
washunut said:
Don't you think that Netflix should pay for shipping their movies? If they send it in the mail they pay, why not when they use a service that gets films to them and their customers quicker. Comcast spent billions building out an infrastructure to deliver the internet to homes. They need a return on their investment if they are to keep up our internet lines.
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They are getting a return on their investment. We're paying for service that says we get "X" amount of bandwidth, not "'X' amount of bandwidth used in the way we state". Not to mention mine, yours, and others money also went into building that infrastructure as well. The internet backbone of this country wasn't built simply by Comcast but largely subsidized by tax payers.
 
washunut said:
Don't you think that Netflix should pay for shipping their movies? If they send it in the mail they pay, why not when they use a service that gets films to them and their customers quicker. Comcast spent billions building out an infrastructure to deliver the internet to homes. They need a return on their investment if they are to keep up our internet lines.
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It is not Netflix that is being forced to pay the toll. It is the end user, which is a tactic that Comcast is using to stifle competition from Nexflix. If Netflix users have to pay an extra fee, it will certainly make Comcast's overpriced pay-per-view service look a little better, won't it? Comcast's screed about bandwidth is just a straw man being used to cover up the real reason. Netflix has a legal service that cuts into Comcast's profit margin, so it is time for Comcast to go into it's arsenal of dirty tricks.
 
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danarhea said:
It is not Netflix that is being forced to pay the toll. It is the end user, which is a tactic that Comcast is using to stifle competition from Nexflix. If Netflix users have to pay an extra fee, it will certainly make Comcast's overpriced pay-per-view service look a little better, won't it? Comcast's screed about bandwidth is just a straw man being used to cover up the real reason. Netflix has a legal service that cuts into Comcast's profit margin, so it is time for Comcast to go into it's arsenal of dirty tricks.
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Netflix takes up a substantial portion of the total U.S. bandwidth, and is (IMHO) profiting partially from a form of arbitrage.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Netflix takes up a substantial portion of the total U.S. bandwidth, and is (IMHO) profiting partially from a form of arbitrage.
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netflix isn't pushing content out. users that pay for their bandwidth is pulling content out. so the cost of the bandwidth is already being paid for by those consuming.
 
ARealConservative said:
netflix isn't pushing content out. users that pay for their bandwidth is pulling content out. so the cost of the bandwidth is already being paid for by those consuming.
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Does it cost Comcast more money to "beef up" their networks to handle the additonal bandwidth during peak hours due to the service provided by Netflix?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Does it cost Comcast more money to "beef up" their networks to handle the additonal bandwidth during peak hours due to the service provided by Netflix?
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comcast decided to open an all you can eat smorgasboard and as such it is comcasts fault that overweight truckers become their target demographic.
 
ARealConservative said:
comcast decided to open an all you can eat smorgasboard and as such it is comcasts fault that overweight truckers become their target demographic.
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The rest of the article can be viewed here

After Level 3 (LVLT) inked the deal, it went to Comcast and asked permission to send twice the amount of traffic to the cable and Internet provider's network as it had done before. The data spike isn't surprising: Netflix represents more than 20% of download traffic during peak hours, according to a new study by Sandvine.

Comcast (CMCSA, Fortune 500) scoffed. That's a whole lot of bandwidth that Level 3 is asking for, and it's expensive for Comcast to constantly beef up its network to support additional traffic.

Typically, content delivery networks (CDNs) like Level 3 have what's called "peering" agreements with Internet service providers (ISPs) like Comcast. The two sides figure that a roughly equal amount of traffic will be driven to each of their networks, so neither charges the other a fee for use.

But Comcast says that with the new Netflix load, Level 3's traffic to Comcast's network would be five times more than the cable company is driving to Level 3's network. So Comcast demanded that Level 3 pay for that traffic increase.

"Level 3 wants to compete with other CDNs, but pass all the costs of that business onto Comcast and Comcast's customers, instead of Level 3 and its customers," Comcast said in a blog post.

In response, Level 3 lashed out at Comcast. It called the new fee unfair and accused Comcast of abusing its "dominant" position as the nation's largest cable provider."By taking this action, Comcast is effectively putting up a toll booth at the borders of its broadband Internet access network," Level 3 said in a press release.

Still, it says it grudgingly agreed last week to pay up. "After being informed by Comcast that its demand for payment was 'take it or leave it,' Level 3 agreed to the terms, under protest, in order to ensure customers did not experience any disruptions," the company said.
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the actual issue is that people are using the bandwidth they pay for, and the companies that charge these fees did a bad job of pricing their services.
 
This is another example of a US ISP not willing to pay to maintain and expand its own backbone to support the demand. And that is because there is no competition on the market... pure and simple. Your own laws are idiotic on the ISP/telecommunications area and are preventing competition.
 
ARealConservative said:
netflix isn't pushing content out. users that pay for their bandwidth is pulling content out. so the cost of the bandwidth is already being paid for by those consuming.
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Isn't this really all about that net neutrality issue. Currently all users pay the same fee to internet provides regardless of how much bandwidth they use. The government regulates this. Currently the FCC is looking into whether they should allow tiered pricing for the internet. So if you use more you pay more.

This is a relatively new industry. It will be an interesting question of whom owns what and whom pays for what.
 
Those of us who use more already pay more, because we tend to be willing to pay for faster speed. See, you can't really watch netflix movies online using their lowest tier of service. The movies crash all the time or slow down. So, this is an ADDITIONAL TOLL that comcast is attempting to leverage on users.
 
washunut said:
Don't you think that Netflix should pay for shipping their movies? If they send it in the mail they pay, why not when they use a service that gets films to them and their customers quicker. Comcast spent billions building out an infrastructure to deliver the internet to homes. They need a return on their investment if they are to keep up our internet lines.
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If the ISPs properly priced their lines, all of this will already be taken care of.
 
We are forced to use Comcast. They are a sly communications business. They have corrupted the governor and won't allow any competition to run cable lines in our area. They nickel and dime everyone to death with fees and we just have to live with it because they are the only cable provider in the area. It's unethical and should be changed.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Those of us who use more already pay more, because we tend to be willing to pay for faster speed. See, you can't really watch netflix movies online using their lowest tier of service. The movies crash all the time or slow down. So, this is an ADDITIONAL TOLL that comcast is attempting to leverage on users.
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That's because they have sold more than they have. In reality it has nothing to do with Netflix, but the fact that Comcast is not willing to pay for the expansion of its backbone to meet the demand put on it. I have seen it so many times, and usually said ISPs go bankrupt with-in a year. But that of course requires customers switch to an alternative ISP, and since Comcast has a near monopoly many places then well...

Dont worry, soon Youtube and even basic downloading will be throttled or banned so that they can keep the quality of service they are suppose to instead of expanding their infrastructure. Hell I would even expect a few GB a month max download to be imposed soon at this rate.. a classic delaying tactic.

Question is.. what was Comcast's profit last year?
 
digsbe said:
We are forced to use Comcast. They are a sly communications business. They have corrupted the governor and won't allow any competition to run cable lines in our area. They nickel and dime everyone to death with fees and we just have to live with it because they are the only cable provider in the area. It's unethical and should be changed.
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use the Euro way.. force owners of the cables to share. Great competition you get, lower prices and great quality :)
 
PeteEU said:
Question is.. what was Comcast's profit last year?
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Why? Are you going to decide how much money they should be allowed to make??

Comcast could tier-price internet useage in a heartbeat. Seems like their way of collecting a fee from Netflix and the like (that they will pass along to consumers) allows the people using that bandwith to pay their way rather effectively.
 
Except that's Comcast essentially leaching off the backbone the public helped pay for to do an end around. We pay for bandwidth from comcast, we are not paying for them to choose how we use our bandwidth. So they're essentially attempting to limit how we use the bandwidth we're paying for by attempting to end around it through forcing more money out of netflix's provider.

Now this would be one thing if we were in a free market. But we're not, the various telecoms own a monoploy. For example, in my old apartment complex I had the choice of Cox, Cox, and Cox. We've set up mini-monopolies and unless we remove their government protection to be monopolies we need them to not be able to do this kind of thing.

We are paying a monthly charge for bandwidth. Some of us are paying MORE per month specifically to get more bandwidth. There's no use for that, and its cheating us, if you then start causing the things that we'd use said bandwidth for to be slowed down to a crawl by throttling or making it so they can't be accessed in some way.
 
washunut said:
Isn't this really all about that net neutrality issue. Currently all users pay the same fee to internet provides regardless of how much bandwidth they use. The government regulates this. Currently the FCC is looking into whether they should allow tiered pricing for the internet. So if you use more you pay more.

This is a relatively new industry. It will be an interesting question of whom owns what and whom pays for what.
Click to expand...

What this will do is change the pricing and billing method. Right now, I pay $49 a month for Comcast internet and I get basically 7mb down and 5 mb up within about 1,000 miles of my local Comcast gateway. What this MAY turn into is, I pay $49 a month for the same speed but for say 5 GB of traffic per month. If I want more, I have to pay another $x.00 per GB. It's my understanding Europe does this (in particular Portugal / Spain) or some company's there. That way, you can use as much bandwidth as you want, up to your limit - then have to pay for more.

iPad 3G connectivity through AT&T does this now. It's coming to the rest of us very soon.
 
PeteEU said:
use the Euro way.. force owners of the cables to share. Great competition you get, lower prices and great quality :)
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I wish we could do that here. This is one thing I admire about Europe. I also admire their innovation, I heard the Netherlands installed new infrastructure that allows ISPs there to supply their customers with cutting edge technology and much faster speeds to the internet (I don't know many details, one of my friends over there was telling me about it.)
 
I'm not opposed to internet service providers charging people for the amount of data they consume, just like electric companies charge people by the kilowatt-hour. That just makes sense, and I think that it's probably how ISPs will start operating in the near future.

However, that's completely separate from slowing access to certain websites over others, ostensibly because they use too much bandwidth but in reality because they threaten the ISP's own commercial interests. That kind of **** should be banned entirely.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Netflix takes up a substantial portion of the total U.S. bandwidth, and is (IMHO) profiting partially from a form of arbitrage.
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Then Comcast and other ISPs should start charging people for the amount of data that they use, rather than dictating where they can use it.
 
PeteEU said:
use the Euro way.. force owners of the cables to share. Great competition you get, lower prices and great quality :)
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I completely agree. Telecom is one area where European laws are pretty clearly superior to American laws.
 
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