• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

It's probably all those years of teaching kids how to attach contraceptive devices to vegetables which gives liberals such twisted one-track minds.

No-one wants a pregnant parsnip.


Perhaps now we can dispense with all the stuck-up liberal hoo-ha now we've come to that understanding. Or perhaps this is about the desires of liberals rather than what's best for army soldiers.


If you can prove that allowing gays to serve openly has had a detrimental effect on an armies effectiveness, then you might have a point.
 
Last edited:
Nice spin but don't answer and report them. You want to make something out of what ifs you can't prove happen

Why report them? These are perfectly natural questions, and they are not questions that are not allowed. In fact, I think the EO officer would be a little confused if you reported someone for asking you how long you have been with the person you are currently dating or married to. These are not inappropriate questions, especially for people who live are living and working together. You don't have to answer them, but most people would feel uncomfortable not answering them. And the fact that gays don't have a choice to be able to answer them and share that with others is the issue.

And that still doesn't cover the other parts of what I put. Why should straight guys/girls be allowed to share pics of private wedding ceremonies with no fear at all of being discharged, while such pics could get gay guys/girls discharged? You don't see the double standard here? Heck, the straight couple could even have been butt naked during the ceremony, and they still would be able to share such pics (although, I'm pretty sure they would have to make sure nothing was actually showing in pics they post online or take to work). The Navy wife who officiated over my wedding told me about another wedding she officiated about a month prior where she had to wear a bathing suit because the couple got married in a hot tub. Even pics of that wedding could be shared with people without getting into trouble. Yet a gay servicemember who shares pics of even just a commitment ceremony could get discharged, even if the ceremony is completely formal. This is wrong.

Every gay person in the military should have exactly the same rights that I have as a military member, to be able to share happy moments with fellow servicemembers, such as starting a new relationship or making a commitment to their loved one, without fearing a discharge because the wrong person overheard a conversation or saw pics of the occasion. They should be able to display pics of their significant other and dance with them at service balls. They should be able to post news and pics online about their personal life and/or relationships without fearing discharge. They're not asking for special privileges. They are asking for the same privileges that straight sailors/soldiers/marines now have, to share their feelings about a person they are in a relationship with without having to get kicked out for it.
 
You have no obligation to answer these nosy busybodies

It's not about having to answer such questions. It is about being able to answer such questions if you want to without having to check to see who might be listening.

And it is about not having two sets of standards for answers to the same questions.
 
Wow, this is shocking, so much for LGBT rights in the military. Despite this, I still believe they should repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, what are your thoughts on this?

Our thoughts?

Some homophobe jarhead went on Fox News and talked out of his ass.
 
Why report them? These are perfectly natural questions, and they are not questions that are not allowed. In fact, I think the EO officer would be a little confused if you reported someone for asking you how long you have been with the person you are currently dating or married to. These are not inappropriate questions, especially for people who live are living and working together. You don't have to answer them, but most people would feel uncomfortable not answering them. And the fact that gays don't have a choice to be able to answer them and share that with others is the issue.

And that still doesn't cover the other parts of what I put. Why should straight guys/girls be allowed to share pics of private wedding ceremonies with no fear at all of being discharged, while such pics could get gay guys/girls discharged? You don't see the double standard here? Heck, the straight couple could even have been butt naked during the ceremony, and they still would be able to share such pics (although, I'm pretty sure they would have to make sure nothing was actually showing in pics they post online or take to work). The Navy wife who officiated over my wedding told me about another wedding she officiated about a month prior where she had to wear a bathing suit because the couple got married in a hot tub. Even pics of that wedding could be shared with people without getting into trouble. Yet a gay servicemember who shares pics of even just a commitment ceremony could get discharged, even if the ceremony is completely formal. This is wrong.

Every gay person in the military should have exactly the same rights that I have as a military member, to be able to share happy moments with fellow servicemembers, such as starting a new relationship or making a commitment to their loved one, without fearing a discharge because the wrong person overheard a conversation or saw pics of the occasion. They should be able to display pics of their significant other and dance with them at service balls. They should be able to post news and pics online about their personal life and/or relationships without fearing discharge. They're not asking for special privileges. They are asking for the same privileges that straight sailors/soldiers/marines now have, to share their feelings about a person they are in a relationship with without having to get kicked out for it.

Don't ask. That is the rule. You are trying to justify something that goes aginst military policy
 
It's not about having to answer such questions. It is about being able to answer such questions if you want to without having to check to see who might be listening.

And it is about not having two sets of standards for answers to the same questions.


I don't answer personal question to just anyone. If gays do their problems are their own fault
 
I don't answer personal question to just anyone. If gays do their problems are their own fault

You are still not getting it. You can choose to answer or not without risk. Gays have no such choice.
 
I don't answer personal question to just anyone. If gays do their problems are their own fault

So if someone asks you in a friendly manner "Are you married" or "Do you have a girlfriend".....you say "I'm sorry but I don't answer personal questions".

Pul-lease. These are standard questions that are commonly asked when people meet.
 
If you can prove that allowing gays to serve openly has had a detrimental effect on an armies effectiveness, then you might have a point

It's certainly an issue amongst soldiers, hence the topicality. Either that, or it's lefties making the usual cack-handed attempts to fix what ain't broke, hence the topicality.
 
It's certainly an issue amongst soldiers, hence the topicality. Either that, or it's lefties making the usual cack-handed attempts to fix what ain't broke, hence the topicality.

Why do you constantly have to label everyone who supports gays serving openly as "lefties"?

Speaking for myself, I am an individual. I am far from left on many issues. Homosexuals and bisexuals being treated equal to heterosexuals just happens to be one of those issues that I strongly support, because it is what is most fair. And that equal, fair treatment is exactly what we are talking about here.

Also, there are plenty of servicemembers who have actually served with openly gay sailors/soldiers/marines who could tell those who are against it that they have nothing to fear if they would just get over their fears of what might happen.
 
Don't ask. That is the rule. You are trying to justify something that goes aginst military policy

No, the rule is that a person cannot be asked about their sexuality. However, the rule says nothing about not being allowed to ask about a person's private life. Now, it is absolutely acceptable for a person to not answer such questions, if they don't want to, but it isn't acceptable to not expect some of these questions.

I am trying to get military policy changed to make it fair. The unfairness exists in the policy that allows heterosexuals to answer personal questions about themselves, if they want to, as completely as they want to, in front of anyone else in the military, with no fear of punishment. Homosexuals however, can't answer those same questions the same way as heterosexuals without fear of being discharged for answering them truthfully.
 
Why do you constantly have to label everyone who supports gays serving openly as "lefties"?

I merely said 'Either that, or it's lefties making the usual cack-handed attempts to fix what ain't broke, hence the topicality.'

That generalisation doesn't state that it's just lefties. A small point but one I thought I'd mention.




Also, there are plenty of servicemembers who have actually served with openly gay sailors/soldiers/marines who could tell those who are against it that they have nothing to fear if they would just get over their fears of what might happen.

If flaunting or unguarded homosexuals aren't to everyone's taste then it's actually quite fascist to try and control peoples' minds. Don't bully people by all means. But on the other hand don't get forced to sit and be reprogrammed by diversity trainers, or have to accept any shameless parading of unnatural sexual proclivities when the latest copy of Rectum of the Week arrives in the mail.

Overall, if homos themselves don't make an issue out of it then it shouldn't matter. But if they don'tthen the afore-mentioned liberal-leftists will.
 
Wow, must be nice to sit around talking trash knowing those you are trashing are fighting for your right to do so.
 
I'm 'trashing are fighting for' my right to do so? I've not heard that expression. It's certainly very glib.



But if you mean I'm trashing the people fighting for my rights, Liberals do no such thing - unless we're talking the right to remain silent (if you don't fit the mould).
 
Last edited:
Wow, must be nice to sit around talking trash knowing those you are trashing are fighting for your right to do so.

...You speak of practically all liberals.
 
So if someone asks you in a friendly manner "Are you married" or "Do you have a girlfriend".....you say "I'm sorry but I don't answer personal questions".

Pul-lease. These are standard questions that are commonly asked when people meet.

What does that have to do with a gay. A gay would say I am not married and do not have a girlfriend which would be the truth.
 
No, the rule is that a person cannot be asked about their sexuality. However, the rule says nothing about not being allowed to ask about a person's private life. Now, it is absolutely acceptable for a person to not answer such questions, if they don't want to, but it isn't acceptable to not expect some of these questions.

I am trying to get military policy changed to make it fair. The unfairness exists in the policy that allows heterosexuals to answer personal questions about themselves, if they want to, as completely as they want to, in front of anyone else in the military, with no fear of punishment. Homosexuals however, can't answer those same questions the same way as heterosexuals without fear of being discharged for answering them truthfully.

Nice spin but don't ask means that and you keep saying they are asking
 
What does that have to do with a gay. A gay would say I am not married and do not have a girlfriend which would be the truth.


But what if a gay soldier is married in say like Massachusetts?
 
Soldiers should be manly and strong, not feminized and sensitive. Even the straight men in our armies today are not as manly as the 300 Spartans that destroyed the Persians. Hell, let's also force soldiers in Britain to "act homosexual." Oh wait, that's already happening. Hm... what else can we pervert?
 
Soldiers should be manly and strong, not feminized and sensitive. Even the straight men in our armies today are not as manly as the 300 Spartans that destroyed the Persians. Hell, let's also force soldiers in Britain to "act homosexual." Oh wait, that's already happening. Hm... what else can we pervert?


Didn't the Spartans practice pederastry?
 
Didn't the Spartans practice pederastry?

I don't know. If you can show definitively that they did and that those 300 participated in such then I'd reconsider. Can you?
 
Didn't the Spartans practice pederastry?

Sparta's constitution strictly prohibited pederasty. Far from it being institutionalized, as many modern historians claim: contemporary accounts, the evidence of archaeology, and modern psychology all strongly support those ancient historians who vehemently denied pederasty in Sparta.

--snip--

No myth about Sparta is as persistent and controversial as the insistence that pederasty and homosexuality dominated Spartan society. Even highly reputable historians such as Paul Cartledge subscribe to this theory. However, the evidence against it is, in my opinion, compelling.

Xenophon, the only historian with first-hand experience of the agoge (his sons attended it!), states explicitly: "… [Lycurgus] … laid down that in Sparta lovers should refrain from molesting boys, just as much as parents avoid having intercourse with their children or brothers with their sisters." It is hard to find a more definitive statement than this, and from the most credible source. To dismiss this evidence simply because it does not suit preconceived ideas is arrogant.

Xenophon adds: "It does not surprise me, however, that some people do not believe this, since in many cities the laws do not oppose lusting after boys." This is the crux of the matter. All of our written sources on Sparta come from these other cities, where pederasty was rampant. In short, the bulk of the written record on Sparta stems from men who could not imagine a world without it.

--snip--

elysiumgates

If you look up Xenophon further (not his Polity on the Spartan constitution) you'll find he discusses this further. However you may need to access academic historical websites.
 
Back
Top Bottom