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95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

Since we have an all volunteer military why is this even an issue, let the military decide! Interesting that this thread has gone on for 25 pages which just goes to show that with all the problems we have in this country far too many focus on this non issue in the overall scope of things. Gays are certainly passionate about this issue but just a reminder, gays are in a small minority in this country yet seem to scream loudly.

Yes, people who have certain liberties denied to them do tend to be vocal about it, don't they?
In case you hadn't noticed, an overwhelming majority of Americans support allowing gays to serve openly. You're the one in the minority, dude.
 
Since we have an all volunteer military why is this even an issue, let the military decide! Interesting that this thread has gone on for 25 pages which just goes to show that with all the problems we have in this country far too many focus on this non issue in the overall scope of things. Gays are certainly passionate about this issue but just a reminder, gays are in a small minority in this country yet seem to scream loudly.

It's a civil rights issue, should we let the military decide if blacks, Jews, etc. can join? The issue should be whether they can adequately perform their job. Equal protection under the law!!!
 
Yet Obama is against repealing DADT. It appears Obama lied to gays when he was campaigning. You need Obama more than he needs you. If Obama is against it who will support gays?

I don't think he lied. I think he wants credit. No Federal Judge and no Pentagon will steal it from him.
 
I blame Washington and general homophobia. You see, a straight soldier wouldn't have to keep his preference for sticking his dick in a woman private. HENCE THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION. Nobody is arguing whether or not DADT is a law or whether these discharges were done correctly under that law.

Well, unfortunately, if the gay is supposed to be an equal to heterossexuals, then he also must obey all the laws. Until President Obama and his fellow civilians allows the Pentagon and a Federal Judge to get rid of DADT, his "rights" have nothing to do with it.

Apparently the one thing the Marine Corps can't train into you is a sense of humor.

I also love this attitude where if you aren't a Marine, you aren't allowed to talk about them or have an opinion on what they do.

You have it wrong. You can be a soldier or an airman and make jokes about the Marine Corps. You've earned the right to "joke." Civilians make their jokes without even understanding what the branches are. It's malicious and what she meant was to attack in the name of gay pride. It's simple, go through the hardship and then make you jokes.
 
It's a civil rights issue, should we let the military decide if blacks, Jews, etc. can join? The issue should be whether they can adequately perform their job. Equal protection under the law!!!

The law is "Don't...Ask....Don't....Tell." According to Washington, this was their protection. The military has done nothing wrong by following the law. However, gays have disobeyed the law. Non-gays have used the law to escape obligations. It has been the MArine Corps and the Army that has largely ignored DADT since 9/11. It was the Pentagon that set it aside a couplemonths ago. And it was the White House that stated DADT is the law of the land until they decide.

Figure out what's going on before you use the military as the scapegoat for gay rights. It's the military that will be professional enough to enforce toleration while civilians across the nation have the choice to continue to treat them as unequal.

By the way, the law also states that gays will not marry across the nation. Again...not a military decision.....a civilain one. Hollywood and TV makes gays out to be jokes. Again...not a military decision....a civilian one. You see, a gay joke in the military will result in NJP (Non-Judicial Punishment) and the ruin of careers. A joke against gays on TV will earn a writer an emmy. Perhaps civilains should be forced to do what is right too. I guess it's just easier to force a professional military to obey and put it through the technical difficulties than to expect the civilian sector to do what is right with little technical difficulties.
 
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Yes, people who have certain liberties denied to them do tend to be vocal about it, don't they?
In case you hadn't noticed, an overwhelming majority of Americans support allowing gays to serve openly. You're the one in the minority, dude.

What liberties are being denied a gay person? You seem to confuse sexual orientation with civil rights. What you do in your bedroom is your choice just like what I do in mine. This entire issue is a minority trying to thrust their will on the majority and in this case this is the ALL VOLUNTEER military thus the leadership's responsibility to decide.

Seems that the majority in this country don't support gay marriage either but that doesn't seem to matter to this minority. The people have spoken regarding gay marriage so what do the gays do, go to the courts to overturn the will of the majority. Now it is on to the military. When you can show me that sexual orientation is in the Constitution then you will have an issue, until then keep your sexuality in the bedroom and let our military leaders make that decision. Being in the military isn't a majority rule entity.
 
It's a civil rights issue, should we let the military decide if blacks, Jews, etc. can join? The issue should be whether they can adequately perform their job. Equal protection under the law!!!

So let's see you now have added sexual orientation to the civil rights list? Gays have equal protection, they can marry the same as I can, a person of the opposite sex. I hope you keep bringing this issue up and keep making a big deal of it. That is going to really piss a lot of people off and it won't take long for a Constitutional Amendment defining homosexual activity.
 
Yes, people who have certain liberties denied to them do tend to be vocal about it, don't they?
In case you hadn't noticed, an overwhelming majority of Americans support allowing gays to serve openly. You're the one in the minority, dude.

It is the president that is fighting it
 
I don't think he lied. I think he wants credit. No Federal Judge and no Pentagon will steal it from him.

He campaigned as gay friendly and now fights and has done nothing he told gays he would do. That is a lie
 
He campaigned as gay friendly and now fights and has done nothing he told gays he would do. That is a lie

Within a few months DADT will be gone. The only difference is that Obama will pretend that he is supposed to receive the credit vice the hated military and a single judge that tried to end the policy two months ago.

And best believe he will use "his glory" on the campaign trail in 2012, proving that it was merely a political tool. Like when Democrats preach about black nationalism and minority rights for votes.
 
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Within a few months DADT will be gone. The only difference is that Obama will pretend that he is supposed to receive the credit vice the hated military and a single judge that tried to end the policy two months ago.

And best believe he will use "his glory" on the campaign trail in 2012, proving that it was merely a political tool. Like when Democrats preach about black nationalism and minority rights for votes.

Obama does not care about 7% of the population. Obama is showing he lies and cares nothing about those he lied too,to get elected
 
It's a civil rights issue, should we let the military decide if blacks, Jews, etc. can join? The issue should be whether they can adequately perform their job. Equal protection under the law!!!

Yes, people who have certain liberties denied to them do tend to be vocal about it, don't they?
In case you hadn't noticed, an overwhelming majority of Americans support allowing gays to serve openly. You're the one in the minority, dude.


So, you both agree that the ban on membership of racist hate groups should be lifted? Afterall, it all about, "civil rights", and whether, or not, they can, "adequately perform their jobs". Yes?

Equal protection under the law and and ****??????
 
Yet Obama is against repealing DADT. It appears Obama lied to gays when he was campaigning. You need Obama more than he needs you. If Obama is against it who will support gays?

Again, I didn't vote for Obama. I don't even like Obama. Obama has very little to do with this issue. If McCain were in office (who was Obama's strongest contender in the Presidential race, and whom I actually voted for), I know that this issue would be really hard to be resolved at least in this term. However, Obama being in office doesn't make it a done deal. Congress has to change the rule that doesn't allow gays to serve openly in the military. There is very little chance that Obama would veto a bill repealing DADT and the code that keeps gays from serving openly. McCain, oth, might have.
 
So, you both agree that the ban on membership of racist hate groups should be lifted? Afterall, it all about, "civil rights", and whether, or not, they can, "adequately perform their jobs". Yes?

Equal protection under the law and and ****??????

The bans on memberships for hate groups are applied completely fairly. No one can join any hate group. Doesn't matter if the person is white, black, Christian, Muslim, atheist, man, woman, heterosexual, or homosexual. A person is not allowed to espouse that they support ideas that either promote violence or intolerance against others. And not letting people to stay in who have a proven possibility of causing problems due purely to their own hatred of another group is not discrimination.

The ban on gays is discrimination because it only applies to homosexuals. Homosexuals are not allowed to do things that heterosexuals are allowed to do. Homosexuals are not allowed to bring their significant other to military functions and claim them openly as their significant other. Homosexuals are not allowed to tell others that they are homosexual or like people of the same sex, while heterosexuals are. Homosexuals are not allowed to participate in a ceremony to commit to another person, whether the union is legally recognized by a government within the US or not. Heterosexuals are not only allowed to participate in such ceremonies, the military gives them incentives to do so, including BAH or housing, separation pay, and medical/dental benefits for spouses.
 
Well today we got another vote in the senate against the repeal of DADT when Senator Kirk from Illinois was sworn in........You did not have the votes before that you sure don't have them now.

Kirk's arrival boosts GOP - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com



And though he considers himself a social moderate, he’s expected to vote no on two bills Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he would try to pass in the lame duck: the immigration-related DREAM Act and the defense authorization bill that includes language to repeal the military’s ban on openly gay service members, the latter of which Kirk voted against while serving in the House.
 
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Well today we got another vote in the senate against the repeal of DADT when Senator Kirk from Illinois was sworn in........You did not have the votes before that you sure don't have them now.

Kirk's arrival boosts GOP - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com



And though he considers himself a social moderate, he’s expected to vote no on two bills Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he would try to pass in the lame duck: the immigration-related DREAM Act and the defense authorization bill that includes language to repeal the military’s ban on openly gay service members, the latter of which Kirk voted against while serving in the House.

Personally, I think all these Congressmen are playing policitical games. "I won't vote for this or that because that is what so and so wants me to do" or worse "I'm not voting for this because all the other people in my policitical party aren't".

Now, I would honestly like to see this bill come up separately to avoid anyone being able to use the excuse for voting against it of "it wasn't the actual repeal, but the politics of how they tried to do it". This way we would force Republicans to accept complete responsibility for why they aren't repealing DADT.

And McCain's explaination of why he is against repeal is a load of bull. He was in the military. He should absolutely know that military members should not be allowed to decide what is best for them in something like this. Military members have to work with people they are uncomfortable working alongside each and every day.

Heck, I think even if they were to ask the military, and most said they were fine with repealing it, some Republicans would find an excuse to vote against it.
 
Navy, has the DoD investigation findings been presented to congress yet?
 
I find it funny how the people that are the most opinionated about this wouldn't dream of serving in the military. They want to make the rules while they work part-time at a Starbucks and live with Mom and Dad.
 
I find it funny how the people that are the most opinionated about this wouldn't dream of serving in the military. They want to make the rules while they work part-time at a Starbucks and live with Mom and Dad.

Actually....the overwhelming majority of the military support ending the ban. Are they the people that you say "wouldn't dream of serving in the military"....LOL
 
I find it funny how the people that are the most opinionated about this wouldn't dream of serving in the military. They want to make the rules while they work part-time at a Starbucks and live with Mom and Dad.

It's funny how two of the most vocal on this issue have served, and both support ending DADT...
 
Again, I didn't vote for Obama. I don't even like Obama. Obama has very little to do with this issue. If McCain were in office (who was Obama's strongest contender in the Presidential race, and whom I actually voted for), I know that this issue would be really hard to be resolved at least in this term. However, Obama being in office doesn't make it a done deal. Congress has to change the rule that doesn't allow gays to serve openly in the military. There is very little chance that Obama would veto a bill repealing DADT and the code that keeps gays from serving openly. McCain, oth, might have.

So you give Obama a pass when he is fighting gays and ignore the lies he told gays when campaigning.

Obama Fights To Preserve Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Before Supreme Court « JONATHAN TURLEY
 
So you give Obama a pass when he is fighting gays and ignore the lies he told gays when campaigning.

Obama Fights To Preserve Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Before Supreme Court « JONATHAN TURLEY

I don't care what Obama says. Just like I don't care what any other politician says. I am smart enough to realize that politicians lie. He should have went ahead and overturned the policy or at least went with the court and halted discharges. He didn't, so screw him. I don't count on Obama to do a whole lot to improve this country. I don't think he likes homosexuals at all. I do believe, though, that he is a politician whose main constituents want this, so if he doesn't eventually do it, then he won't have the support he needs to win the next election.

Don't worry. I won't be voting for him next time either, no matter how these gay rights issues turn out.

What I do care about is what politicians do. The ball is in Congress's court right now. Anything Obama does concerning DADT should be taken into context of what he has been doing so far and how Congress deals with this issue. In fact, the best thing that the Republicans could do, would be to completely support repealing DADT to allow gays to serve openly before Obama gets a chance to repeal it with executive powers. Then, the nation could actually believe that Republicans did want what's best for the military and Obama would get less credit for doing this, if much credit at all. Afterall, many gay rights supporters now consider Obama to be, at the very least, delaying efforts to allow gays to serve openly.
 
Well I don't know. I posted as an individual Marine. I do not lead the team of service members around here. This thread is about the Marine Corps, not the general service member. This situation is going to affect all four differently because of the specialized natures and missions. Unit cohesion in the Marine Corps has a great deal more importance attached to it than in the Air Force. The close living conditions of Marines and Sailors are not mimicked in the Army. Etc. So when people produce Pentagon numbers that do not reflect the branches broken down, the numbers are a bit deceitful.

DADT is also an issue largely misunderstood by civilians. As the numbers show, the DADT has been a burden. It was a way for non-gays to get out of obligation....

Code:
YEAR    Coast Guard   Marines   Navy   Army      Air Force       Total
 
1994          0          36      258    136        187            617
1995         15          69      269    184        235            772
1996         12          60      315    199        284            870
1997         10          78      413    197        309           1,007
1998         14          77      345    312        415           1,163
1999         12          97      314    271        352           1,046
2000         19         114      358    573        177           1,241
2001         14         115      314    638        217           1,273
2002         29         109      218    429        121            906
2003          -          -        -      -          -             787
2004         15          59      177    325        92             668
2005         16          75      177    386        88             742
2006          -          -        -      -          -             623
2007          -          -        -      -          -             627
2008          -          -        -      -          -             619
2009          -          -        -      -          -             428
 
Total        156       889     3,158    3,650      2,477         13,389

Notice how the numbers rose when the order to get rid of "gays" came down? Notice how these numbers escallated all the way to 9/11? And do we notice how quickly it became unacceptable to simply proclaim homosexuality to get out of war deployment? This is no coincidence. The military has largely been ignoring DADT because it's BS. This is why the Air Force quickly jumped on that federal judge's band wagon and ended DADT as their policy. This is why the Pentagon came out and suspended DADT for all branches shortly after. We are fed up with it. But wasn't it the White House that came out later and insisted that DADT remain the policy until they decide? It's the same old story. Good credit will always be stolen by politicians and bad credit will always be hoisted towards the military. Politicians drive us into war via their failure and then insist that the military bring them victory while following their irresponsible politically based rules. Of course, any military imperfection (under Republican and Democrat meddling) becomes an excuse for civilians to declare total failure, but when that victory comes its all about what great diplomats the fat asses in Washington were. And here we are with DADT being an issue that the military was all about ending, but are not allowed because Washington politicians want their credit for getting rid of it in the end.

It's Washington that forces the issue and non-serving gays that insist that serving gays bear their social burdens. Most of the military is just fed up with the whole affair. But like I stated, loong after gays have "rights" in the military, they will still be denied marriage in the same civilian courts that insist that they have the right to die for their coutnry, but not allowed to be happy in it. Add Hollywood, TV, the NFL, and any other organization of civilian manhood and gays are hardly achieving equality. People want the military to be the last bastion of anti-gay hold outs, but forcing an organization of professionals to obey orders is far easier than asking a bunch of civilians to live up to their bitching and do the right thing. Good luck forcing the civilian world to obey orders so that gays can feel better about themselves.

Sorry MSGT, it was meant was an open question....not to you.
 
I believe allowing open gays in the military will add to their demands and make them even more arrogant. It will bring hate speech into the military and gays hitting on straight people. This will open Pandora's box to all kinds of new problems
 
I believe allowing open gays in the military will add to their demands and make them even more arrogant. It will bring hate speech into the military and gays hitting on straight people. This will open Pandora's box to all kinds of new problems

The issue is their civil rights, not the homophobic fantasies of the unenlightened.
 
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