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CDC finds stark regional disparities in teen-pregnancy rates

Kandahar said:
Do you understand what "per capita" means? Why should the relative population of the states matter at all?
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It means quite a bit when the article is going to compare the rates between states with a large racial and population makeup.

Kandahar said:
So what? This country does not have Bantustans. Minorities are just as deserving of comprehensive sex education as whites are.
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Education has very little to do with it. Culture takes the lions share.

Redress said:
So, if you read it, how did you miss this:

The racial argument is discussed and proven to not fully account for the differences in teen birth rates.
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I never claimed it did not or missed it, but the racial disparity per state is the main reason, period. The article in particular and to some degree the study are trying to make it seem irrelevant or claim education is the primary reason, bunk.

Kandahar said:
I really don't understand your point about minorities. Are you saying that blacks have some natural predisposition toward teen pregnancies and unsafe sex? If not, how is it relevant?
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OK.

You can (much like the article and study) dismiss the cultural ramifications if you like. The fact is it IS the lions share of the problem and education in school is not as important as parents teaching this kind of thing. Especially in minority communities were sexual escapades is seen as some kind of badge of cool.

Kandahar said:
The point is that people in the south don't have as much access to comprehensive sex education as people in New England. The fact that they are minorities is completely irrelevant. If anything, it just highlights the education disparity between whites and minorities, but that's a subject for a different thread.
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And then people wonder why nothing ever gets fixed.

Ignore the real reasons for feel good crap.

SE102 said:
Thanks god someone payed attention in 5th grade.
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Yes thank God. :roll:
 
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Redress said:
Sex ed was the most controllable factor. Race was a factor, but does not account for the entire disparity. Why race was a factor I am not going to speculate on.
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because as the study said...black and hispanic teens get pregnant at a higher rate than whites. no need to speculate, the study spells it out. If you are going to believe one part of the study you have to believe it all. no cherry picking allowed.

big whoop sex ed was the most controllable factor. that doesn't mean it is the most important...only that it is the most controlable.

"sorry, we can't control the differing rates of teen pregnancy among the different demographic groups....so we are just going to ignore that factor." laughable at best


notice: no one here is claiming that race is the only factor or accounts for the entire disparity. that would be illogical and ignore all facts

however, this study is claiming that better sex ed is the causative factor and discounting everything else.
 
Kandahar said:
So what? Just pointing out that there are more minorities is not a sufficient explanation. WHY do minorities have higher rates of teen pregnancy?
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for the purposes of debating this study, it does not matter WHY, only that they do. you cannot argue that fact.

In part because they have less access to comprehensive sex education.
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they have the same access as white kids.

It is the primary factor. Unless your argument is that being a minority makes a person naturally more likely to have unprotected sex (which is racist as hell), all it's doing is pointing out a demographic difference and completely ignoring the CAUSE of that demographic difference.
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take the race card chip off your soulder for just one minute and actually read. the arguement is "for whatever reason (irrelevent in this case) black and hispanic teens get pregnant at a higher rate than whites. (the study pointed this out) the areas noted in this study as having higher teen pregnancy rates also have higher numbers of black and hispanic teens. my arguement is that the higher numbers of those prone to be pregnant teens is a bigger factor in the disparity than the quality of the sex ed they get. If sex ed was such a determining factor...then why does the NW having the highest % of black teen pregnancy? surely the sex ed there is better than it is in the south?



Are you ****ing kidding me? Have you ever set foot inside an inner-city school?
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um, yeah. I taught science and math in one for 9 years. NEXT
 
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OscarB63 said:
because as the study said...black and hispanic teens get pregnant at a higher rate than whites. no need to speculate, the study spells it out. If you are going to believe one part of the study you have to believe it all. no cherry picking allowed.

big whoop sex ed was the most controllable factor. that doesn't mean it is the most important...only that it is the most controlable.

"sorry, we can't control the differing rates of teen pregnancy among the different demographic groups....so we are just going to ignore that factor." laughable at best


notice: no one here is claiming that race is the only factor or accounts for the entire disparity. that would be illogical and ignore all facts

however, this study is claiming that better sex ed is the causative factor and discounting everything else.
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you seem to be saying that race is the major factor.....if so, how do you account for the lower rates in diverse areas of the country, like california? and the high rate in oklahoma?
 
OscarB63 said:
because as the study said...black and hispanic teens get pregnant at a higher rate than whites. no need to speculate, the study spells it out. If you are going to believe one part of the study you have to believe it all. no cherry picking allowed.

big whoop sex ed was the most controllable factor. that doesn't mean it is the most important...only that it is the most controlable.

"sorry, we can't control the differing rates of teen pregnancy among the different demographic groups....so we are just going to ignore that factor." laughable at best


notice: no one here is claiming that race is the only factor or accounts for the entire disparity. that would be illogical and ignore all facts

however, this study is claiming that better sex ed is the causative factor and discounting everything else.
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What I am not speculating on is why black and hispanic teens get pregnant more often than white teens. I do not know why and in the absence of data, I am not going to speculate.

The rest is false based on your incorrect understanding of my statement. We cannot control the density of black and hispanic teens, but we can control the education on contraceptives those teens receive.

The study is not claiming that, in fact it points out that sex ed is not the only factor. What it does point out, correctly, is that the evidence is there that full sex ed as opposed to abstinence based sex ed is more effective in reducing teen pregnancy.
 
liblady said:
you seem to be saying that race is the major factor.....if so, how do you account for the lower rates in diverse areas of the country, like california? and the high rate in oklahoma?
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you would be wrong. I am saying that the authors of this story are completely ignoring the race factor so that they can proclaim better SEX ED makes all the difference.

I really don't know what the "major factor" is, there are far too many variables to determine..but I do know that race is a factor and you can't ignore it.

the statement that some areas have lower teen pregnancy rates due to more inclusive sex ed is overly simplistic, misleading and disingenuous.
 
Redress said:
The study is not claiming that, in fact it points out that sex ed is not the only factor. What it does point out, correctly, is that the evidence is there that full sex ed as opposed to abstinence based sex ed is more effective in reducing teen pregnancy.
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but that evidence comes in the form of lower teen pregnancy rates which can be caused by a number of factors. where is the evidence that actually shows the lower rate is due to the sex ed?
 
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OscarB63 said:
you would be wrong. I am saying that the authors of this story are completely ignoring the race factor so that they can proclaim better SEX ED makes all the difference.

I really don't know what the "major factor" is, there are far too many variables to determine..but I do know that race is a factor and you can't ignore it.

the statement that some areas have lower teen pregnancy rates due to more inclusive sex ed is overly simplistic, misleading and disingenuous.
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i don't think anyone is ignoring the race factor, but i don't think it plays as a large apart as sex ed, and the culture that believes sex ed shouldn't be taught in schools.
 
liblady said:
i don't think anyone is ignoring the race factor, but i don't think it plays as a large apart as sex ed, and the culture that believes sex ed shouldn't be taught in schools.
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Culture/race is in most cases the factor (even according to the study) among minority's. For them it is not so much a race question, but a question of culture in minority communities.

No real role models and the welfare mentality of entitlement among the adult population does not help the situation. So many factors contribute and play a much larger role than just education it is not even funny.
 
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Blackdog said:
Culture/race is in most cases the factor (even according to the study) among minority's. For them it is not so much a race question, but a question of culture in minority communities.

No real role models and the welfare mentality of entitlement among the adult population does not help the situation. So many factors contribute and play a much larger role than just education it is not even funny.
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that's my biggest complaint with this article. they try to make it sound like if all these backwards ass places down south would just teach comprehensive sex ed, it would make everything all better. just ain't gonna happen. teaching sex ed is like putting a band-aid on arterial bleeding. it doesn't address the real issue.

unfortunately you can't address the real issues without someone screaming "racist".
 
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Blackdog said:
Culture/race is in most cases the factor (even according to the study) among minority's. For them it is not so much a race question, but a question of culture in minority communities.

No real role models and the welfare mentality of entitlement among the adult population does not help the situation. So many factors contribute and play a much larger role than just education it is not even funny.
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then how do you explain oklahoma and california? and when i said culture, i meant all culture, not just minority culture. because yes, southern states can be backward. i live in one. btw, how are you?
 
OscarB63 said:
that's my biggest complaint with this article. they try to make it sound like if all these backwards ass places down south would just teach comprehensive sex ed, it would make everything all better. just ain't gonna happen. teaching sex ed is like putting a band-aid on arterial bleeding. it doesn't address the real issue.

unfortunately you can't address the real issues without someone screaming "racist".
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Is any one screaming "racist" yet? However, the real issue is not race(blacks and hispanics are not more likely for teen pregnancy simply because of their race), but sex ed and other factors(culture).
 
Redress said:
Is any one screaming "racist" yet? However, the real issue is not race(blacks and hispanics are not more likely for teen pregnancy simply because of their race), but sex ed and other factors(culture).
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i don't recall anyone screaming racist....but i might be hard of hearing.
 
Redress said:
Is any one screaming "racist" yet? However, the real issue is not race(blacks and hispanics are not more likely for teen pregnancy simply because of their race), but sex ed.
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BS, if that was true then white kids would have similar teen pregnancy rates because in any given region the white kids get the same sex ed as the black kids. they don't have separate black and white sex ed classes. That indicates that either the sex ed is not that big a factor or culture is a bigger factor.

ie, two girls sit in the same sex ed class, one gets pregnant and the other doesn't. how can you say that the sex ed did or did not play a factor in the one girl not getting pregnant?


a more telling survey would be to break the study down by race/culture. what is the teen pregnancy rate among whites in Vermont compared to the teen pregnancy rate for whites in Texas? break the study down according to race and you can take the race factor out of the equation and produce a more focused reliable study. or break it down by socio economic grouping. anything to reduce/eliminate variables.

but they won't do that because they are afraid the results will show that regardless of the sex ed classes they get minorities and low socio-economic groups will have a higher rate of teen pregnancy..and god forbid we can't admit that. better to stick our heads in the sand and blame "abstinence based sex ed".
 
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liblady said:
i don't recall anyone screaming racist....but i might be hard of hearing.
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although he didn't come right out and say it...the accusation was implied in several of Kandahar's posts.
 
OscarB63 said:
BS, if that was true then white kids would have similar teen pregnancy rates because in any given region the white kids get the same sex ed as the black kids. they don't have separate black and white sex ed classes. That indicates that either the sex ed is not that big a factor or culture is a bigger factor.

ie, two girls sit in the same sex ed class, one gets pregnant and the other doesn't. how can you say that the sex ed did or did not play a factor in the one girl not getting pregnant?


a more telling survey would be to break the study down by race/culture. what is the teen pregnancy rate among whites in Vermont compared to the teen pregnancy rate for whites in Texas? break the study down according to race and you can take the race factor out of the equation and produce a more focused reliable study. or break it down by socio economic grouping. anything to reduce/eliminate variables.

that is my problem with this study. it is overly simplistic and therefore misleading.
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um...psst.......you didn't read the study, did you? then how can you have a problem with it? whites in kentucky are MUCH more likely to get pregnat than whites in the northeast.
 
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liblady said:
um...psst.......you didn't read the study, did you? then how can you have a problem with it? whites in kentucky are MUCH more likely to get pregnat than whites in the northeast.
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obviously you missed the "socio economic" bit. what is the biggest difference between whites in Kentucky and whites in the northeast? hint, it ain't the kind of sex ed classes they are getting.

sex ed is a red herring designed to distract from the real reason behind the disparity in teen pregnancy rates. culture and socio-economic standing.

edit: also, what the hell is it with "you" people. any time someone disagrees with you, your first battle cry is to accuse them of not reading the study. you know, sometimes people get tired of weeding through 6 freakin pages of links to actually get to a study. If the study is that damn good, why do you have to click 3-4 links to get to it? after reading 3 pages of crap, I gave up, so I'm not sure if I ever saw the damn study itself or not.
 
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liblady said:
then how do you explain oklahoma and california? and when i said culture, i meant all culture, not just minority culture. because yes, southern states can be backward. i live in one. btw, how are you?
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CA seems to be the exception rather than the rule. CA is a large state with a huge population. I am almost certain if you look at the statistics vs separate area's of CA, the numbers would be far more disparaging in primarily minority communities.

Thanks liblady, I am fine. Good to see you as well! :2wave:
 
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OscarB63 said:
BS, if that was true then white kids would have similar teen pregnancy rates because in any given region the white kids get the same sex ed as the black kids. they don't have separate black and white sex ed classes. That indicates that either the sex ed is not that big a factor or culture is a bigger factor.

ie, two girls sit in the same sex ed class, one gets pregnant and the other doesn't. how can you say that the sex ed did or did not play a factor in the one girl not getting pregnant?


a more telling survey would be to break the study down by race/culture. what is the teen pregnancy rate among whites in Vermont compared to the teen pregnancy rate for whites in Texas? break the study down according to race and you can take the race factor out of the equation and produce a more focused reliable study. or break it down by socio economic grouping. anything to reduce/eliminate variables.

but they won't do that because they are afraid the results will show that regardless of the sex ed classes they get minorities and low socio-economic groups will have a higher rate of teen pregnancy..and god forbid we can't admit that. better to stick our heads in the sand and blame "abstinence based sex ed".
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Apparently I am not being clear in my presentation. What I am saying is that race, in and of itself, is not the factor. Now, the fact that blacks tend to live in predominantly black communities with a difference in culture could very well be a factor, but that is not the race itself being a factor.
 
OscarB63 said:
obviously you missed the "socio economic" bit. what is the biggest difference between whites in Kentucky and whites in the northeast? hint, it ain't the kind of sex ed classes they are getting.

sex ed is a red herring designed to distract from the real reason behind the disparity in teen pregnancy rates. culture and socio-economic standing.
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nope.....but nice try. you clearly DID NOT actually read the study, oscar. else your inital focus wouldn't have been on race, as it was, and you wouldn't have been bitching about how people think the south is backward. You suggested a racial survey would have meant more, but that's already in the survey, which you didn't read.
 
Redress said:
Apparently I am not being clear in my presentation. What I am saying is that race, in and of itself, is not the factor. Now, the fact that blacks tend to live in predominantly black communities with a difference in culture could very well be a factor, but that is not the race itself being a factor.
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with that I agree. my point is that IF sex ed were the main factor, then one would expect everyone who gets the same education to have similar rates. this is not the case, therefore the sex ed cannot be the determining factor.

minorities and whites in the south get the same abstinance based sex ed. minorities and whites in the south have different teen pregnancy rates. since the sex ed is the same, it cannot be the causative factor.

a red ball and a blue ball roll down a ramp. the red ball reaches the botton first. you cannot blame the difference in speed on the incline of the ramp. the difference must be due to a difference in the balls themself.
 
liblady said:
nope.....but nice try. you clearly DID NOT actually read the study, oscar. else your inital focus wouldn't have been on race, as it was, and you wouldn't have been bitching about how people think the south is backward. You suggested a racial survey would have meant more, but that's already in the survey, which you didn't read.
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nothing changes the fact that the conclusion that the study presents is overly simplistic and misleading. sex ed is not the primary factor. otherwise everyone who gets the same sex ed would have the same rates. they don't, so sex ed ain't it.


care to actually address that?
 
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