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Shocking phone-bill horror stories motivate regulators

MaggieD said:
Cellphone companies need more regulation re their fees. They have "profit centers" within their business models that depend upon their customers not understanding or not knowing about their billing policies.

My own experience includes an $850 cellphone bill during a busy month in real estate. My plan called for 3,000 minutes for $60. That's 2-cents-a-minute. Overage useage? 35-cents-per-minute. Holy crap. No warniing that one is over their minutes. Just a large bill.

A text message alert should be required. And should have been required as soon as this woman's over-charges exceeded 200% of her average monthly bill.
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Yes, I agree - a message advising you of your usage, intermittently throughout the cycle perhaps - or even permitting you a quick toggle-off on your phone once you breech your minutes so someone else doesn't overuse without you knowing (like husband borrowing your phone).

That is reasonable.

If we're talking about the bigger picture - of there being more standardized or universal charges - I agree, too. As long as it's adopted in order to apply to all companies - just in the same way they cap off gas-prices so people don't take advantage and hike during a crisis (like when the area has to evacuate pending a coming hurricane, etc).

But, still - should a person be excused for the overall amount of their bill? Only if they can prove that they had *no way* of finding out or knowing what their charges were.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But, still - should a person be excused for the overall amount of their bill? Only if they can prove that they had *no way* of finding out or knowing what their charges were.
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To this point, I am almost always in favor of regulations that encourage companies to use regular english (as opposed to lawyerese) in their contracts and to put as much information into charts and graphs as possible.
 
megaprogman said:
To this point, I am almost always in favor of regulations that encourage companies to use regular english (as opposed to lawyerese) in their contracts and to put as much information into charts and graphs as possible.
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Yes - they do right by providing the copororate jargon, btu they should 'translate' as well.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Yes - they do right by providing the copororate jargon, btu they should 'translate' as well.
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A summary would probably work. (This wall of jargon means in a nutshell that ...)

If a judge finds that the summary is not accurate, it would probably mean that the contract is null and void would be my guess. So enforcement is already built in.
 
megaprogman said:
A summary would probably work. (This wall of jargon means in a nutshell that ...)
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True - like what they do for legislation. They have their specific version that's all mumbly jumbly and then they rewrite it in a easy-to-follow format (which many legislators use as a reference for their decisions).
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Yes, I agree - a message advising you of your usage, intermittently throughout the cycle perhaps - or even permitting you a quick toggle-off on your phone once you breech your minutes so someone else doesn't overuse without you knowing (like husband borrowing your phone).

That is reasonable.

If we're talking about the bigger picture - of there being more standardized or universal charges - I agree, too. As long as it's adopted in order to apply to all companies - just in the same way they cap off gas-prices so people don't take advantage and hike during a crisis (like when the area has to evacuate pending a coming hurricane, etc).

But, still - should a person be excused for the overall amount of their bill? Only if they can prove that they had *no way* of finding out or knowing what their charges were.
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Guy takes his car to a mechanic and gets a rough quote for the work that needs doing. The mechanic calls the guy and says, "Your car's ready." Gets there and the bill is three times the rough quote.

"Well, you shoulda' asked me to call you with the exact price before I went ahead."

That'd be unethical, yes? So's some of the cellphone companies' shenanigins.
 
MaggieD said:
Guy takes his car to a mechanic and gets a rough quote for the work that needs doing. The mechanic calls the guy and says, "Your car's ready." Gets there and the bill is three times the rough quote.

"Well, you shoulda' asked me to call you with the exact price before I went ahead."

That'd be unethical, yes? So's some of the cellphone companies' shenanigins.
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I always do that with mechanics. I do not authorize any work to be done until they tell me exactly what work they are going to do and how much it will cost. That's just good common sense. If I didn't do that, it would be my own fault for getting screwed. Is it unethical for a mechanic to do more work than he estimated? Perhaps, perhaps not. Just depends and it's a matter of opinion. But it's incumbant upon the consumer to get the necessary information.
 
rivrrat said:
I always do that with mechanics. I do not authorize any work to be done until they tell me exactly what work they are going to do and how much it will cost. That's just good common sense. If I didn't do that, it would be my own fault for getting screwed. Is it unethical for a mechanic to do more work than he estimated? Perhaps, perhaps not. Just depends and it's a matter of opinion. But it's incumbant upon the consumer to get the necessary information.
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I just go to an ethical mechanic will give me a call if the repair turns out to be more than the ballpark.
 
megaprogman said:
I just go to an ethical mechanic will give me a call if the repair turns out to be more than the ballpark.
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If a mechanic doesn't do what I asked and does work anyway, he will never get my business again. But I never take for granted that they're going to call me. I always state it outright and I always state that I don't authorize any work done in excess of what has been stated and quoted to me. Plus, the only way you know who the "good" mechanics are is trial and error. In the process of trial and error, it's best to cover your goddamn ass. And covering your ass is YOUR responsibility.
 
rivrrat said:
If a mechanic doesn't do what I asked and does work anyway, he will never get my business again. But I never take for granted that they're going to call me. I always state it outright and I always state that I don't authorize any work done in excess of what has been stated and quoted to me.
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So far, whenever I have asked for a quote, every mechanic I deal with has volunteered that they will call me if they were wrong.

rivrrat said:
Plus, the only way you know who the "good" mechanics are is trial and error. In the process of trial and error, it's best to cover your goddamn ass. And covering your ass is YOUR responsibility.
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I don't do the trial and error thing. I ask my wife's uncle who used to be a mechanic himself who he uses for a particular job.
 
MaggieD said:
Guy takes his car to a mechanic and gets a rough quote for the work that needs doing. The mechanic calls the guy and says, "Your car's ready." Gets there and the bill is three times the rough quote.

"Well, you shoulda' asked me to call you with the exact price before I went ahead."

That'd be unethical, yes? So's some of the cellphone companies' shenanigins.
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Bad analogy, quotes only work if a service is charged for a certain price. It's like renting a car. You pay to use it for a month. The car also says you get first 100 miles packaged with the rental. Any extras comes out of your pocket. You drive 300 miles, you pay for the extra 200 miles. Can you blame the car rental company for why they didn't warn you are getting close to 100 miles? That would be absurd.
 
The telecom industry in North America has some of the lowest business ratings in the world. The corruption and collusion here are so obvious it is painful to watch.

I don't care what contract I signed. A $5000 phone bill is utterly outrageous and is not proper compensation for services that do not cost THAT much. It is a blatant rip off and has nothing to do with value. We would not accept a 500% markup on other products just for the hell of it, but with the telecom sector we have no choice because of the oligopoly they have formed.
 
MCS117 said:
Bad analogy, quotes only work if a service is charged for a certain price. It's like renting a car. You pay to use it for a month. The car also says you get first 100 miles packaged with the rental. Any extras comes out of your pocket. You drive 300 miles, you pay for the extra 200 miles. Can you blame the car rental company for why they didn't warn you are getting close to 100 miles? That would be absurd.
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It's only absurd because the rental car company doesn't have any convenient way of doing that. T-Mobile, on the other hand, sees all your data in real time. They could automatically send you a text message when you go over your minutes, and they could have someone call you when you go WAY over your limit (or just cut you off entirely). This is made even easier due to the fact that the service that they are providing is the same service by which they can contact you. A rental car company, on the other hand, A) can't see your data in real time, B) only has the contact info that you provided them, C) can't remotely disable your service if you are unresponsive.

If a rental car company had the technological capability of doing all that, then yes, I absolutely would blame them for not doing so.
 
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MCS117 said:
Bad analogy, quotes only work if a service is charged for a certain price. It's like renting a car. You pay to use it for a month. The car also says you get first 100 miles packaged with the rental. Any extras comes out of your pocket. You drive 300 miles, you pay for the extra 200 miles. Can you blame the car rental company for why they didn't warn you are getting close to 100 miles? That would be absurd.
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It's one thing to pay extra. It's quite another to get gouged....which is what cellphone companies do to their customers who go over their minute limits.

In my example, I was paying about 2-cents per minute for the first 3,000 minutes -- 35-cents per minute for the overage....they have the technology to text their customers when they've reached their minute limit. That they choose not to shows me that it's a full-blown profit center for them they don't want to mess with.

Should be regulated.

The postscript to MY story is that, after getting transferred around to ten different people as I objected to my bill, I finally got a guy who could make a decision and waive the bill.

I said, "Look, here's the deal. I'm not paying this bill. I won't be using my cell after today. You'll file a black mark on my credit. No problem. I'll take the hit. And I'll make it my mission to bad-mouth your company every single chance I get...including writing letters to newspapers and my Congressmen that harp about your need to be regulated. You're using this as part of your business model at the expense of your customers, and it's simply not right. So make an adjustment, offer me an alternative, or that's where we're at."

The manager compromised at $150 total. I've been a loyal customer for four years hence. I was very lucky. But an $850 cellphone bill based on overages for one that starts at $60 is onerous and dishonest. Period.
 
MaggieD said:
It's one thing to pay extra. It's quite another to get gouged....which is what cellphone companies do to their customers who go over their minute limits.

But an $850 cellphone bill based on overages for one that starts at $60 is onerous and dishonest. Period.
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Glad it worked out for you. Yet, where is the personal responsibilty in this? Everyone has a contract that spells out the the conditions of use. Even my 4 year old cell phone has a minute tracker. All you have to do is reset in each month at the beginning of the billing cycle to zero. Then the usage can be monitored. While I can agree some of the over use charges are unreasonalbe, the user has the ultimate control by electing not to use the phone over their contract limit. If a special offer comes along (original op), and you are not sure what it covers, ever think of contacting customer service for clafification and document the who, what, where, etc of the discussion.

IMO, the key is personal responsibility. Yes, big business does/can at times screw the customer. Yet, the fact remains we don't have to use their service/product. It is a personal choice.
 
mike2810 said:
Glad it worked out for you. Yet, where is the personal responsibilty in this? Everyone has a contract that spells out the the conditions of use. Even my 4 year old cell phone has a minute tracker. All you have to do is reset in each month at the beginning of the billing cycle to zero. Then the usage can be monitored. While I can agree some of the over use charges are unreasonalbe, the user has the ultimate control by electing not to use the phone over their contract limit. If a special offer comes along (original op), and you are not sure what it covers, ever think of contacting customer service for clafification and document the who, what, where, etc of the discussion.

IMO, the key is personal responsibility. Yes, big business does/can at times screw the customer. Yet, the fact remains we don't have to use their service/product. It is a personal choice.
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I agree with you that personal responsibility is at the root of the problem. But just because a company can screw you over doesn't mean it's right for them to do so. And does not mean that I, as a customer, have to accept it like a sheep with that crazy uncle down the road. ;-)
 
MaggieD said:
I agree with you that personal responsibility is at the root of the problem. But just because a company can screw you over doesn't mean it's right for them to do so. And does not mean that I, as a customer, have to accept it like a sheep with that crazy uncle down the road. ;-)
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Yeah, I have a huge problem with people excusing companies performing immoral activity because of some contract.
 
Orion said:
The telecom industry in North America has some of the lowest business ratings in the world. The corruption and collusion here are so obvious it is painful to watch.

I don't care what contract I signed. A $5000 phone bill is utterly outrageous and is not proper compensation for services that do not cost THAT much. It is a blatant rip off and has nothing to do with value. We would not accept a 500% markup on other products just for the hell of it, but with the telecom sector we have no choice because of the oligopoly they have formed.
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It's not a 500% markup. It's closer to 500,000,000%. :)
 
And crap like this is why I recommend everyone kick their cell providers in the 'nads, and get a TracFone.

* No Bills
* No Contracts
* No Surprises
* You're in Control

:thumbs:
 
Deuce said:
It's not a 500% markup. It's closer to 500,000,000%. :)
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I messed up on the calculations. It's not 25 cents per text, it's much more because we are talking about continents, not states.... Because they need to jump from Haiti to the US, that needs some serious money to get between continents. And you are renting spots on the lines connecting between the two, so actually it might be cheaper to text than to voice because text runs on a different method than voice and thats why they made voice free. So... that 25 cents per text message probably costs somewhere around 25 bucks a pop... But I'm not sure about the roaming charges between continents, only between states which the US practically eliminated with competition.
 
MaggieD said:
I agree with you that personal responsibility is at the root of the problem. But just because a company can screw you over doesn't mean it's right for them to do so. And does not mean that I, as a customer, have to accept it like a sheep with that crazy uncle down the road. ;-)
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Don't disagree, when I first read your response I thought of replacing the word "company" with government (federal/state/local), and it is still valid.
 
megaprogman said:
All of this can be solved by having the phone company send a notification to the user. This would allow the user to make more informed choices. I believe there is already a system in place with most US mobile phone companies to do this.
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How about the user takes some responsibility and pro-actively checks to see how many minutes he has left? I see nothing wrong with expecting people to take a few seconds to peroidically check on their status. Its called responsibility.

Could a phone company offer the service you suggest? Sure and I'd have no problem with it. I'm sure it could easily be done and could be effectively marketed as superior customer service. But I don't think companies have any sort of obligation to provide that serice. If you go over your minutes or your alloted number of texts or whatever, you are responsible. I don't see the cell company as "bad guy" at all. I see the so called victim as an idiot.

And on a unrelated note, text mesaging is the stupidest thing ever. 99% of the time its easier and faster to just call the person rather than text them. I think I've sent two or three texts in my entire life and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I never sent one again.
 
Glinda said:
And crap like this is why I recommend everyone kick their cell providers in the 'nads, and get a TracFone.

* No Bills
* No Contracts
* No Surprises
* You're in Control

:thumbs:
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I am trying to convince my wife to go with a prepaid plan when her service contract is up. Given her usage, it would be cheaper by about $20/month.
 
MCS117 said:
I messed up on the calculations. It's not 25 cents per text, it's much more because we are talking about continents, not states.... Because they need to jump from Haiti to the US, that needs some serious money to get between continents. And you are renting spots on the lines connecting between the two, so actually it might be cheaper to text than to voice because text runs on a different method than voice and thats why they made voice free. So... that 25 cents per text message probably costs somewhere around 25 bucks a pop... But I'm not sure about the roaming charges between continents, only between states which the US practically eliminated with competition.
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Text messages use the control channel that your cell phone is always using to keep tabs on the cell tower. The cost to send a text is too small a number to realistically calculate.
 
Deuce said:
Text messages use the control channel that your cell phone is always using to keep tabs on the cell tower. The cost to send a text is too small a number to realistically calculate.
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I take it back, it's 35 cents per text message... How the heck can someone send 100,000 text messages in 1 month?!?!?!?!

And how is that gouging, they put the costs on the terms and contract..... It's 1.99 per minute from US to Haiti for voice calls, and that is paid for. I totally have zero sympathy now towards the user because it is obviously his or her fault for not realizing this in the first place. Sure, T-mobile could have warned him or her, but heck, why should they really. I suppose now, T-mobile will start a new feature of warning about if you are going over your limit... Wait... there is!

It's called, Parental Control.... Parental control for an adult... We live in interesting times....
 
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