So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
Yes, give it more time. It should start working right about the time the GOP takes over, so they can take credit for it.
You know about inertia and momentum. What was done over a period of decades cannot be undone in a few years. I was in the Navy for 12 years, and saw a lot of waste. The budget system encourages it.
And if you think our blood and guts and money wasted in Iraq was worth it, you must be making money on some kind of govt contract.
We have never, in world history, changed a culture in anything less than 500 years or so....
Besides, the Iraq war has nothing to do with oil, culture, democracy, etc. It was about revenge..

So you believe adding 3 trillion to the debt is working? Where is your evidence when month to month this year unemployment is higher than last year when the recession ended? There is no question that when the Republicans get in that things will get better as Obama will either moderate to the center or create gridlock and both are good.

Too bad so many are so nearsighted. Iraq with a evil dictator in a region of the world that impacts the world economy somehow isn't a problem. Why is it that liberals only address problems after they occur instead of being proactive and preventing them. Liberals claim to be experts on the future yet when their predictions are wrong they are already off to some other issue and never admit they were wrong.

Still hearing liberals blaming the Iraq War for the deficits yet not one has given us the cost of that war on a yearly basis, so let me help you. According to the Treasury the Iraq War has cost 700 billion dollars over 8 years and even if that was 1 trillion dollars over 7 years that is around 100 billion per year. What was the yearly deficit? One trillion sounds like a huge number and it is but that is over 7 years, not yearly like the 1.4 trillion deficit in 2009 and 1.29 trillion in fiscal year 2010. Think about it?

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
So you believe adding 3 trillion to the debt is working? Where is your evidence when month to month this year unemployment is higher than last year when the recession ended? There is no question that when the Republicans get in that things will get better as Obama will either moderate to the center or create gridlock and both are good.

Too bad so many are so nearsighted. Iraq with a evil dictator in a region of the world that impacts the world economy somehow isn't a problem. Why is it that liberals only address problems after they occur instead of being proactive and preventing them. Liberals claim to be experts on the future yet when their predictions are wrong they are already off to some other issue and never admit they were wrong.

Still hearing liberals blaming the Iraq War for the deficits yet not one has given us the cost of that war on a yearly basis, so let me help you. According to the Treasury the Iraq War has cost 700 billion dollars over 8 years and even if that was 1 trillion dollars over 7 years that is around 100 billion per year. What was the yearly deficit? One trillion sounds like a huge number and it is but that is over 7 years, not yearly like the 1.4 trillion deficit in 2009 and 1.29 trillion in fiscal year 2010. Think about it?

If you cons want to save the world, you should also be willing to pay the taxes that will be required to be the world's police force.
Do you think Saddam was the only dictator in the world, or maybe the only one sitting on oil? We haven't gone into poor african countries that are destabilizing their region, have we?
BTW, much of what you are complaining about started under BUSH, Jr. Only an idiot starts a war with an already whipped country. If Saddam was so bad, why didn't the "more stable" Arab countries in the region send their troops to do the job?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
If you cons want to save the world, you should also be willing to pay the taxes that will be required to be the world's police force.
Do you think Saddam was the only dictator in the world, or maybe the only one sitting on oil? We haven't gone into poor african countries that are destabilizing their region, have we?
BTW, much of what you are complaining about started under BUSH, Jr. Only an idiot starts a war with an already whipped country. If Saddam was so bad, why didn't the "more stable" Arab countries in the region send their troops to do the job?

I have a problem with 47% of the working people in this country paying nothing in Federal Income taxes. The question I have is why don't you? Do you also condemn Bush for the billions he sent to Africa to eradicate AIDS?

Guess I am not going to get an answer as to how much the Iraq War added to each yearly deficit. Wonder if you have any idea how much 9/11 cost the taxpayer?

pbrauer · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
I have a problem with 47% of the working people in this country paying nothing in Federal Income taxes.

I love it, when the Bush cuts the taxes, the conservatives were saying how much it benefited low income people. Now they are dissing it. Complete and total hypocrites. :lamo

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

pbrauer said:
I love it, when the Bush cuts the taxes, the conservatives were saying how much it benefited low income people. Now they are dissing it. Complete and total hypocrites. :lamo

I love it when you block PM messages that are in response to one of yours. I further love it when you ignore the actual results of "your" President and continue to focus on the past while ignoring the cliff that Obama is leading our economy over. Still don't get the results, do you? 4 million more unemployed today than when Obama took office, higher unemployment month to month this year over last, 3 trillion added to the debt in two years, and economic growth still very low and not creating jobs. Congratulations, you got your wish, the movement towards a European style socialist economy as that region works to ditch it.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
I have a problem with 47% of the working people in this country paying nothing in Federal Income taxes. The question I have is why don't you? Do you also condemn Bush for the billions he sent to Africa to eradicate AIDS?

Guess I am not going to get an answer as to how much the Iraq War added to each yearly deficit. Wonder if you have any idea how much 9/11 cost the taxpayer?

So, Obama is responsible for 9/11? You seem to already know how much Bush's war cost us annually....why ask me? Besides, deficits are not the only issue here, national debt is part of the problem. Borrowing money from future generations to take vengeance on Iraq should be a criminal offense. But, selfishness isn't a crime, is it? Do you have grandchildren?
Money to fight AIDS is a good thing, we are saving lives, and helping to prevent the spread of disease. Money spent to kill Iraqi citizens is not a good thing. 9/11 shouldn't have cost the taxpayer anything, the Saudis should have paid for that. Even the war on terror has misspent funds. We are trying to buy influence in a region that hates us and most everything we stand for. Bought friends rarely stay bought..
Our infrastructure is falling apart while we "spread democracy" on the other side of the world..and you are OK with that?
Taking care of our own needs first will generate more jobs here in the USA. If we want sufficient tax revenue with low tax rates, we need more employment at a living wage. It makes no sense to want to pay our people low wages and then expect them to pay taxes as well. It sounds like you want to subsidize business and enrich stock holders at the expense of those who are barely squeaking by.

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill;1059069506]So, Obama is responsible for 9/11? You seem to already know how much Bush's war cost us annually....why ask me? Besides, deficits are not the only issue here, national debt is part of the problem. Borrowing money from future generations to take vengeance on Iraq should be a criminal offense. But, selfishness isn't a crime, is it? Do you have grandchildren?

It is Friday and you must have started drinking early. Who said Obama was responsible for 9/11? I asked you if you knew how much it cost and then figure out how much that added to the deficit and debt. There would be no national debt if there weren't deficits. If you don't know how much the Iraq war cost then how do you know that the Iraq War is the cause of the debt that is being funded by borrowing? Yes, I have five Grandkids

Money to fight AIDS is a good thing, we are saving lives, and helping to prevent the spread of disease. Money spent to kill Iraqi citizens is not a good thing. 9/11 shouldn't have cost the taxpayer anything, the Saudis should have paid for that. Even the war on terror has misspent funds. We are trying to buy influence in a region that hates us and most everything we stand for. Bought friends rarely stay bought..

I see, so spending money to save selected people good but not to save another group is bad, got it! Saddam Hussein is no longer seeking WMD and sponsoring and supporting terrorism. Guess I still have a problem understanding what any of that has to do with today? Some people use the past to divert from the present. Looks like you fall into that category.

Our infrastructure is falling apart while we "spread democracy" on the other side of the world..and you are OK with that?
Taking care of our own needs first will generate more jobs here in the USA. If we want sufficient tax revenue with low tax rates, we need more employment at a living wage. It makes no sense to want to pay our people low wages and then expect them to pay taxes as well. It sounds like you want to subsidize business and enrich stock holders at the expense of those who are barely squeaking by.

So your answer is spend more money on infrastructure. Any idea where all that excise money is going for the gasoline purchased each day? I doubt seriously that the spending on the Iraq War affected the money set aside for infrastructure. where do you get your information? You keep buying the media rhetoric and never ask the tough questions. Do you honestly believe that the govt. doesn't have the money for the infrastructure and if not it is because of the wars?

Do you think it is the government's role to set what private business pays its employees? Who determines what a living wage is, you? govt? Does it cost as much to live in Utah as it does in California?

Interesting how individual biases determine what a living wage is. Think having a wide screen TV, cell phone, computer, designer tennis shoes is something the poor are required to have? How do you know what makes people poor and what their living expenses are? Why is it that the poor here are upper middle or rich in other countries? You spout a lot of generalities without offering proof. Start there instead of offering your opinions.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
It is Friday and you must have started drinking early. Who said Obama was responsible for 9/11? I asked you if you knew how much it cost and then figure out how much that added to the deficit and debt. There would be no national debt if there weren't deficits. If you don't know how much the Iraq war cost then how do you know that the Iraq War is the cause of the debt that is being funded by borrowing? Yes, I have five Grandkids

I see, so spending money to save selected people good but not to save another group is bad, got it! Saddam Hussein is no longer seeking WMD and sponsoring and supporting terrorism. Guess I still have a problem understanding what any of that has to do with today? Some people use the past to divert from the present. Looks like you fall into that category.

So your answer is spend more money on infrastructure. Any idea where all that excise money is going for the gasoline purchased each day? I doubt seriously that the spending on the Iraq War affected the money set aside for infrastructure. where do you get your information? You keep buying the media rhetoric and never ask the tough questions. Do you honestly believe that the govt. doesn't have the money for the infrastructure and if not it is because of the wars?

Do you think it is the government's role to set what private business pays its employees? Who determines what a living wage is, you? govt? Does it cost as much to live in Utah as it does in California?

Interesting how individual biases determine what a living wage is. Think having a wide screen TV, cell phone, computer, designer tennis shoes is something the poor are required to have? How do you know what makes people poor and what their living expenses are? Why is it that the poor here are upper middle or rich in other countries? You spout a lot of generalities without offering proof. Start there instead of offering your opinions.

I know lots of "poor" who have more toys than they need, won't disagree with that issue. And if anybody here is a master of generalities, it is you.
Gas taxes should go up by double. With improvements in MPG, modern cars use much less than 20 or 30 years ago, so tax revenue is down. It needs to be adjusted.
Saddam didn't have WMD, and was only playing a charade about them because he feared his neighbors. Our intellgence was bad, and contrived.
The citizens of Iraq didn't have the courage to kill Saddam, so we "rescued" them. Are we going to rescue North Korea next? How will we pay for that, another tax cut?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
I know lots of "poor" who have more toys than they need, won't disagree with that issue. And if anybody here is a master of generalities, it is you.
Gas taxes should go up by double. With improvements in MPG, modern cars use much less than 20 or 30 years ago, so tax revenue is down. It needs to be adjusted.
Saddam didn't have WMD, and was only playing a charade about them because he feared his neighbors. Our intellgence was bad, and contrived.
The citizens of Iraq didn't have the courage to kill Saddam, so we "rescued" them. Are we going to rescue North Korea next? How will we pay for that, another tax cut?

Utah Bill, I got an infraction for the drinking comments. I apologize, it was an attempt at a joke and I meant nothing personal.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Utah Bill, I got an infraction for the drinking comments. I apologize, it was an attempt at a joke and I meant nothing personal.

Not offended, besides, I argue better intoxicated than you do sober....:2razz:
Just an opinion, of course, as I don't drink alcohol unless I have a really bad cold....used to get those colds once a year, in the spring, but haven't the last 2 years. That takes away a good excuse to drink whiskey. Anybody got some cold germs to spare?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
Not offended, besides, I argue better intoxicated than you do sober....:2razz:
Just an opinion, of course, as I don't drink alcohol unless I have a really bad cold....used to get those colds once a year, in the spring, but haven't the last 2 years. That takes away a good excuse to drink whiskey. Anybody got some cold germs to spare?

Thanks, Utah, appreciate the comments. I really meant no disrespect and glad you weren't offended. I have appealed the infraction. this is one that I didn't deserve, IMO.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Thanks, Utah, appreciate the comments. I really meant no disrespect and glad you weren't offended. I have appealed the infraction. this is one that I didn't deserve, IMO.

But, what about all the times you did deserve it, and didn't get caught? That's what my parents used to say when they smacked me for what my little brother did...:lol:

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
But, what about all the times you did deserve it, and didn't get caught? That's what my parents used to say when they smacked me for what my little brother did...:lol:

LOL, we won't talk about those times nor will we talk about all those who have attacked me that I would never report. I just don't believe in reporting people for any reason. I am a big boy and can handle the heat.

pbrauer · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
I love it when you block PM messages that are in response to one of yours.

I was tired of you insults Conservative and told you I was ending the dialog so I turned off PM for a few days.

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

pbrauer said:
I was tired of you insults Conservative and told you I was ending the dialog so I turned off PM for a few days.

Some apparently have very thin skin and have problems being challenged calling those challenges insults. Facts have a way of getting in your way most of the time. Any time you want to get back on the issues let me know. I look forward to refuting your comments with actual verifiable data which in this case came from the checkbook of the United States, the U.S. Treasury Dept.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Some apparently have very thin skin and have problems being challenged calling those challenges insults. Facts have a way of getting in your way most of the time. Any time you want to get back on the issues let me know. I look forward to refuting your comments with actual verifiable data which in this case came from the checkbook of the United States, the U.S. Treasury Dept.

I hope the treasury dept's checkbook is balanced against revenue....and surely the books are never cooked...and the audits are honest...
How would it work if the next time a president says he wants to go to war, or fund some new programs, the treasury dept says, "sorry, we don't have the funds for it, and won't til you raise taxes to pay for it".

pbrauer · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Some apparently have very thin skin and have problems being challenged calling those challenges insults. Facts have a way of getting in your way most of the time. Any time you want to get back on the issues let me know. I look forward to refuting your comments with actual verifiable data which in this case came from the checkbook of the United States, the U.S. Treasury Dept.

I think telling me that I need to leave the NW is an insult, sorry.

Here is partially what you wrote to me:

I suggest that you get out of the Northwest and actually get some factual news. Wall Street had nothing to do with creating the housing bubble, the problem started back when Carter created the CRA and then liberal heroes like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd decided that owning a house was a personal right and not a personal responsibility.

Besides the insult, the information you wrote is total bull****.

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
I hope the treasury dept's checkbook is balanced against revenue....and surely the books are never cooked...and the audits are honest...
How would it work if the next time a president says he wants to go to war, or fund some new programs, the treasury dept says, "sorry, we don't have the funds for it, and won't til you raise taxes to pay for it".

Right or wrong it is the best information available and what is used to pay debt service on. Would love to see the bank kick back a few checks, wouldn't that be something?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

pbrauer said:
I think telling me that I need to leave the NW is an insult, sorry.

Here is partially what you wrote to me:

Besides the insult, the information you wrote is total bull****.

Hardly an insult, just my observation since you don't appear to be getting the real news there. There are two sides to every issue, you seem to getting the left side, suggest you try to get some balance.

The information I posted isn't bs as you claim, it can be verified but you have to get out of the Northwest apparently to do that. Maybe a local library hasn't been compromised. Amazing how your state has disastrous economic results but you still buy the liberal line.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Right or wrong it is the best information available and what is used to pay debt service on. Would love to see the bank kick back a few checks, wouldn't that be something?

What would be the fee/penalty for writing a huge check that has to be returned to congress marked "insufficient funds"...?

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
What would be the fee/penalty for writing a huge check that has to be returned to congress marked "insufficient funds"...?

Probably won't be the normal charge for a NSF. You are on to something, are you running for office?

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
Probably won't be the normal charge for a NSF. You are on to something, are you running for office?

Yeah, right....
If I win the lottery, I will use some of the money running ads that ask questions that supposedly no politician has ever heard....
When they say that, we know they are liars. The questions just don't fit into their agenda.
One thing I would ask BushLite, after making him take truth serum, is why we didn't put the blame for 9/11 where it belongs, on the Saudis....

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
Yeah, right....
If I win the lottery, I will use some of the money running ads that ask questions that supposedly no politician has ever heard....
When they say that, we know they are liars. The questions just don't fit into their agenda.
One thing I would ask BushLite, after making him take truth serum, is why we didn't put the blame for 9/11 where it belongs, on the Saudis....

You really have a problem with the war. Do you have any first hand experience on the validity of being in Iraq? As I have stated on a number of forums, I had three family members in Iraq and all said we did the right thing. Why are they wrong?

The fact is that most of the attackers were indeed Saudi's but there is no evidence at all that the Saudis trained them and supported them according to the 9/11 Commission.

Key points in the 9/11 Report

• The Saudi government did not fund the 19 hijackers.
• Relatives of bin Laden were not allowed to fly out of the country until after air traffic was allowed to move freely after it was grounded following the attacks.
• Bush did not know about the specific threat beforehand.

UtahBill · Oct 29, 2010

Conservative said:
You really have a problem with the war. Do you have any first hand experience on the validity of being in Iraq? As I have stated on a number of forums, I had three family members in Iraq and all said we did the right thing. Why are they wrong?

The fact is that most of the attackers were indeed Saudi's but there is no evidence at all that the Saudis trained them and supported them according to the 9/11 Commission.

Key points in the 9/11 Report

• The Saudi government did not fund the 19 hijackers.
• Relatives of bin Laden were not allowed to fly out of the country until after air traffic was allowed to move freely after it was grounded following the attacks.
• Bush did not know about the specific threat beforehand.

Nearly all the terrorists were saudi citizens, and they were not ignorant peasants, but educated people propagandized by Muslim imans..
SA still, to this day, has imans preaching hatred for America, and IIRC, they get a govt paycheck.
Nobody knows where all the funding comes from.
Osama Bin Ladin comes from a rich family living in SA.

None of the terrorists came from Iraq....

Conservative · Oct 29, 2010

UtahBill said:
Nearly all the terrorists were saudi citizens, and they were not ignorant peasants, but educated people propagandized by Muslim imans..
SA still, to this day, has imans preaching hatred for America, and IIRC, they get a govt paycheck.
Nobody knows where all the funding comes from.
Osama Bin Ladin comes from a rich family living in SA.

None of the terrorists came from Iraq....

Mohammed Atta trained in Iraq. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was in Iraq, Hamas, Hezbollah and Fatah, FUNDED From IRAQ, Al Qaeda Terrorist Camp in Iraq, but apparently Saddam was simply a VICTIM Of the West's Imperialism, right and not a terrorist?