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So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

Not sure of your background, but in the technical fields, and I suspect many fields, there are a lot of people who faked it to get in, then try to coast afterwards. Lax supervision allows them to stay longer than probation periods. Apparently it is hard to fire people in some areas...

It is hard to fire people in any area. I was in the retail business for 35 years and hired thousands of employees. I ran a 200 million dollar a year business that was dependent on consumers and customer care.
 
So tell me who sets the price for fair compensation?

To be perfectly glib, everyone. Economies are ecosystems, not fields of isolated individuals existing in their own separate economic microcosmi. But without government policy, very few people play any role in setting prices, even though everyone pasy part of the cost through market externalities.
 
To be perfectly glib, everyone. Economies are ecosystems, not fields of isolated individuals existing in their own separate economic microcosmi. But without government policy, very few people play any role in setting prices, even though everyone pasy part of the cost through market externalities.

After spending 35 years in the private sector I can honestly say that your "book learnin" hasn't taught you a thing. You obviously don't have a clue how our economy works and the components of GDP. We have or had the greatest economy on the face of the earth until social engineering liberals came into power and continue to work to destroy it. Most liberal elite academics have never run a business and are totally out of touch with reality.
 
After spending 35 years in the private sector I can honestly say that your "book learnin" hasn't taught you a thing. You obviously don't have a clue how our economy works and the components of GDP. We have or had the greatest economy on the face of the earth until social engineering liberals came into power and continue to work to destroy it. Most liberal elite academics have never run a business and are totally out of touch with reality.

My friend, the retired econ professor, is no liberal elite, and will be the first to say that the current situation probably wasn't anticipated by more than a few economics gurus....and even those weren't listened to by politicians..
Services must be paid for, preferably NOW, out of OUR OWN POCKETS, not those of our children. Ever hear a politician say anything like that?
Inflation is at a snails pace and still we have the entitled retirees whining about no COLA this year, or last. That includes me, my SS and my Navy Retirement did not go up. Such is life, stuff happens to all of us eventually, and most of us don't complain about it.
Some retirees whine about being on a "fixed" income, and the biggest whiners are those who by all appearances have more than enough income and assets to be only minimally affected by no COLA.
Other retirees whine about having to pay the schools portion of property taxes, saying that they have no children in the schools. True, but they did once, and no way did most of us pay the full cost of educating our children...
That is like saying "I am not drawing SS, why should I pay into it?"
But all this is just the opinion of someone who has always been a bit paranoid about the future, and did a good job of preparing for whatever comes.....so far.:2razz:
 
After spending 35 years in the private sector I can honestly say that your "book learnin" hasn't taught you a thing.

Arguing with conservatives has taught me plenty.

You obviously don't have a clue how our economy works and the components of GDP.

Let me take a wild guess how you think it works: Zero taxation = infinite GDP?

We have or had the greatest economy on the face of the earth until social engineering liberals came into power and continue to work to destroy it.

Your view of history is from an alternate universe. The US economy was the envy of the world in virtually every respect during the 47-year period of highly progressive taxation:

toprates.png


http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

Most liberal elite academics have never run a business and are totally out of touch with reality.

And if paranoid prejudices against entire categories of people were relevant, I would bother to contradict you. But they're not, and you still haven't made a single substantive comment on the topic.
 
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Arguing with conservatives has taught me plenty.



Let me take a wild guess how you think it works: Zero taxation = infinite GDP?



Your view of history is from an alternate universe. The US economy was the envy of the world in virtually every respect during the 47-year period of highly progressive taxation:

toprates.png


Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)



And if paranoid prejudices against entire categories of people were relevant, I would bother to contradict you. But they're not, and you still haven't made a single substantive comment on the topic.


Who ever mentioned zero taxation? how about reducing the size of the govt getting back to what our founders envisioned, small central govt. focused on national defense. that would take the size of the govt. down to about 1.5 trillion dollars instead of 3.8 trillion that it is now.

Don't know why so many are afraid of the American people keeping more of what they earn? Explain it to me.
 
You do understand the difference between capital gains tax and income tax. Yes?

What do you think the capital gains tax should be? 20% is plenty high enough.

Capital gains tax should be the same rate as income tax. It's really only another form of income and should be added to all the other income on the same tax form.

The only reason it's lower is lobbyist's pressure, blackmail or threats.

ricksfolly
 
Capital gains tax should be the same rate as income tax. It's really only another form of income and should be added to all the other income on the same tax form.

The only reason it's lower is lobbyist's pressure, blackmail or threats.

ricksfolly

Please tell me why the Federal Govt. should get anything from the risk taking and success of individuals' investments? They do that now with the excise taxes on gasoline and personal income taxes.
 
services provided by our govt will never be free, and most of them will always be needed...
 
services provided by our govt will never be free, and most of them will always be needed...

Services from our govt? Which govt, state, federal, or local? That is the point as there is much duplication of effort on the part of all. Where do the services belong, Federal, state, or local? Let's get back to the basics. We don't need a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt. Don't people get it? If Federal Taxes go up, then people are going to flee high tax states to keep their tax burden relatively the same and that hurts state revenue? Stop the Federal Spending on issues that belong in the states or local communities.
 
Please tell me why the Federal Govt. should get anything from the risk taking and success of individuals' investments? They do that now with the excise taxes on gasoline and personal income taxes.

Using risk as justification for lower capital gain tax is a stretch. Risk is a way of life for all, workers and rich alike, so why should the rich get special treatment.

ricks folly
 
Using risk as justification for lower capital gain tax is a stretch. Risk is a way of life for all, workers and rich alike, so why should the rich get special treatment.

ricks folly

Risk is what built this country so tell me why the Federal Govt. should capitalism on someone else's return on investment? How many times should income be taxed?
 
Risk is what built this country so tell me why the Federal Govt. should capitalism on someone else's return on investment? How many times should income be taxed?

Which is more important, risking one's security (way of life) or risking one's money?

ricksfolly
 
Which is more important, risking one's security (way of life) or risking one's money?

ricksfolly

What does that have to do with accepting personal responsibility and why the govt. has a right to one's personal investment earnings?
 
Let me guess: the newest excuse for the recession is Bush's tax cuts?

What the effing eff?

You realize the recession started long before Obama was in office, right?

Dear God, please tell me you realize that.

If not, then I'm done with this lunacy.
 
Capital gains tax should be the same rate as income tax. It's really only another form of income and should be added to all the other income on the same tax form.

The only reason it's lower is lobbyist's pressure, blackmail or threats.

ricksfolly

that demonstrates a rather shocking lack of understanding about investments

what do you think that will do to the flow of capital into us corporations?

we get the fact that most of the posts we see that sound from this come from people who are mad that they don't have much investment income or understanding of the subject
 
Who ever mentioned zero taxation? how about reducing the size of the govt getting back to what our founders envisioned, small central govt. focused on national defense. that would take the size of the govt. down to about 1.5 trillion dollars instead of 3.8 trillion that it is now. Don't know why so many are afraid of the American people keeping more of what they earn? Explain it to me.

I have heard that kind of thing from every president since Nixon, and they all fail open when it comes to actual implementation....could they all be lying to us? Even Reagan?
How stupid do you have to be to get us involved in 2 wars and at the same time reduce taxes? Oh, yeah, George W. Bush stupid....and isn't it cute the way he tried to follow in his daddy's footsteps...
 
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I have heard that kind of thing from every president since Nixon, and they all fail open when it comes to actual implementation....could they all be lying to us? Even Reagan?
How stupid do you have to be to get us involved in 2 wars and at the same time reduce taxes? Oh, yeah, George W. Bush stupid....and isn't it cute the way he tried to follow in his daddy's footsteps...

Its entitlements that cost us most of the money-entitlements that are not properly constitutional and tax cuts by Bush increased tax revenues as they grew the economy. You seem to be more interested in punishing people more industrious and prosperous than you than actually increasing government revenue which is then wasted by dems trying to buy the votes of the envious and the needy
 
I have heard that kind of thing from every president since Nixon, and they all fail open when it comes to actual implementation....could they all be lying to us? Even Reagan?
How stupid do you have to be to get us involved in 2 wars and at the same time reduce taxes? Oh, yeah, George W. Bush stupid....and isn't it cute the way he tried to follow in his daddy's footsteps...

How much on a yearly basis did those wars cost us? Why is it so many people don't understand the true role of the Federal Govt? Stop repeating liberal talking points and think.
 
Its entitlements that cost us most of the money-entitlements that are not properly constitutional and tax cuts by Bush increased tax revenues as they grew the economy. You seem to be more interested in punishing people more industrious and prosperous than you than actually increasing government revenue which is then wasted by dems trying to buy the votes of the envious and the needy

So right now, today, under those cuts, we have high tax revenues? Is that what you're saying?
 
How much on a yearly basis did those wars cost us? Why is it so many people don't understand the true role of the Federal Govt? Stop repeating liberal talking points and think.

So, the true role of govt is getting us involved with unwinnable wars half way around the world? I agree that liberals are big spenders, they tax and spend in a grand manner. But the conservatives who vote for wars are doing the same thing, spending money we don't have to do things that don't need to be done. THEY borrow and spend.
Conservative talking points are, generally speaking, just as stupid as liberal talking points. It is propaganda aimed at the low hanging fruit. The difference is, conservatives think their voters are stupid enough to not know they are being fed propaganda, and they may be right....look who they elected before Obama.....
The bar has been set so low that dippy airhead attractive blondes actually have a chance to get elected. If that happens, late night talk show hosts can fire half their writers.
 
So, the true role of govt is getting us involved with unwinnable wars half way around the world? I agree that liberals are big spenders, they tax and spend in a grand manner. But the conservatives who vote for wars are doing the same thing, spending money we don't have to do things that don't need to be done. THEY borrow and spend.
Conservative talking points are, generally speaking, just as stupid as liberal talking points. It is propaganda aimed at the low hanging fruit. The difference is, conservatives think their voters are stupid enough to not know they are being fed propaganda, and they may be right....look who they elected before Obama.....
The bar has been set so low that dippy airhead attractive blondes actually have a chance to get elected. If that happens, late night talk show hosts can fire half their writers.

True conservatives believe in personal responsibility and solving their own problems. Liberals believe in personal freedoms but only when the majority agree with those freedoms. If they don't then it is up to the courts to overturn the will of the people.

Whether or not you supported the wars at this point is irrelevant. I asked you how much they cost on a yearly basis and didn't get an answer. Let's say it was a trillion dollars for the two wars or 2 trillion dollars or even three trillion dollars, how much is that on a yearly basis since the war began and what percentage is that of the deficits created and thus the debt. That is a typical liberal talking point

Today we have had two trillion dollar deficits in two years, how much of that is due to the wars? Where is the rest?

I would agree with you that all are being fed propaganda but the reality is I prefer the Conservative propaganda because it focuses on individuals keeping more of what they earn and deciding how to spend it vs. govt. redistributing personal income. Makes a lot more sense to me.
 
True conservatives believe in personal responsibility and solving their own problems. Liberals believe in personal freedoms but only when the majority agree with those freedoms. If they don't then it is up to the courts to overturn the will of the people.

Whether or not you supported the wars at this point is irrelevant. I asked you how much they cost on a yearly basis and didn't get an answer. Let's say it was a trillion dollars for the two wars or 2 trillion dollars or even three trillion dollars, how much is that on a yearly basis since the war began and what percentage is that of the deficits created and thus the debt. That is a typical liberal talking point

Today we have had two trillion dollar deficits in two years, how much of that is due to the wars? Where is the rest?

I would agree with you that all are being fed propaganda but the reality is I prefer the Conservative propaganda because it focuses on individuals keeping more of what they earn and deciding how to spend it vs. govt. redistributing personal income. Makes a lot more sense to me.

What does "yearly" cost of a war have to do with it? All of the money spent in Iraq was wasted. How conservative is that?
We have issues at home that are more important than yet another futile effort to bring democracy to some sand pit in the middle east. Besides, there already is democracy there, in Israel, and it doesn't impress the Arab world one bit.
While we rebuild what we destroyed over there, our own infrastucture is suffering. We need to employ OUR people in OUR country taking care of our own needs..
 
What does "yearly" cost of a war have to do with it? All of the money spent in Iraq was wasted. How conservative is that?
We have issues at home that are more important than yet another futile effort to bring democracy to some sand pit in the middle east. Besides, there already is democracy there, in Israel, and it doesn't impress the Arab world one bit.
While we rebuild what we destroyed over there, our own infrastucture is suffering. We need to employ OUR people in OUR country taking care of our own needs..

Yearly costs of the war affect the deficit. I doubt that freeing 25 million Iraqis would be considered wasted and getting rid of an evil regime that was still fighting the Gulf war was wasted.

Our infrastructure isn't suffering because of lack of funds, it is suffering because of waste, fraud, and abuse of the money the infrastructure gets. We have 16 million unemployed Americans, 4 million more than when Obama passed the trillion dollar stimulus plan. Unemployment on a month to month basis is higher now than it was last year when the recession ended. We should be looking at 4-6% economic growth but instead it was 2% initial for the third qtr. never in the history of this country has the end of a recession led to these kind of numbers and Obama says "give me more time."

Sorry, but your time is up!
 
Yearly costs of the war affect the deficit. I doubt that freeing 25 million Iraqis would be considered wasted and getting rid of an evil regime that was still fighting the Gulf war was wasted.

Our infrastructure isn't suffering because of lack of funds, it is suffering because of waste, fraud, and abuse of the money the infrastructure gets. We have 16 million unemployed Americans, 4 million more than when Obama passed the trillion dollar stimulus plan. Unemployment on a month to month basis is higher now than it was last year when the recession ended. We should be looking at 4-6% economic growth but instead it was 2% initial for the third qtr. never in the history of this country has the end of a recession led to these kind of numbers and Obama says "give me more time."

Sorry, but your time is up!
Yes, give it more time. It should start working right about the time the GOP takes over, so they can take credit for it.
You know about inertia and momentum. What was done over a period of decades cannot be undone in a few years. I was in the Navy for 12 years, and saw a lot of waste. The budget system encourages it.
And if you think our blood and guts and money wasted in Iraq was worth it, you must be making money on some kind of govt contract.
We have never, in world history, changed a culture in anything less than 500 years or so....
Besides, the Iraq war has nothing to do with oil, culture, democracy, etc. It was about revenge..
 
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