• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

CNN Poll: Was Bush better president than Obama?

Conservative said:
There you go again buying the rhetoric. Go to BLS.gov to get the job losses and see when we lost jobs and then explain why unemployment is higher today than it was last year when the recession ended? I don't recall you discussing the 52 straight months of job creation during the Bush Presidency or the fact that the Democrats took control of Congress in January 2007 and had to approve everything that Bush did. The Democrats were more concerned about regaining the WH than preventing a recession.

For those that claim we are still feeling the affects of Bush policy I suggest you apply some logic and common sense to that argument. Recession ends in June 2009 and every month of 2010 unemployment is higher? Think about it as that is impossible and has never happened in any previous recession.



I know banks that didn't want the money but were forced to take it, Chase and Wells Fargo for example. I wouldn't have bailed the banks out but that is ancient history now. What isn't ancient is the Obama policies which have done nothing to promote the private sector. That hasn't stopped him from blaming Bush and some continuing to buy it. We shall see on November 2 how much the public still blames Bush.
Click to expand...

From my experience anyone who uses the work rhetoric as much as you do is caught in its grasp.

I work closely with the banking sector. If you think its bad now just wait.

November may bring more Republicans to office. To me Republicans and Democrats are the same thing. If we truely want to change how things are working we will need to find a different group of people to lead this country.
 
ender1 said:
From my experience anyone who uses the work rhetoric as much as you do is caught in its grasp.

I work closely with the banking sector. If you think its bad now just wait.

November may bring more Republicans to office. To me Republicans and Democrats are the same thing. If we truely want to change how things are working we will need to find a different group of people to lead this country.
Click to expand...

We have a number of good people running for office fortunately most come with the Tea Party label. The real answer today is term limits. Didn't use to think that way but do now. I have a lot of good friends in the banking business that know first hand what was going on in 2008 and neither Chase or Wells Fargo wanted the money and both have paid it back.

The fact is, Obama has done irreputable harm to this economy in just two years. The next two he will remain in campaign mode blaming the Republicans who will be in charge. He doesn't know what he is doing, hired a lot of liberal elites with no real life business experience as I pointed out and they are implementing policy that is a disaster. If the Democrats maintain control they will be empowered to do more of what they have done, high unemployment and high deficits. This country and our economy cannot support this agenda.
 
ender1 said:
So you refuse to say if you think President Bush was a good president or not in a forum discussion about weather he is or not. Thats odd.
Click to expand...
Far less odd that you continually refusing to address my premise and show how it is unsound.
Instead, you offer a red herring, in order to distract the conversation away from that premise.
You continue to avoid the point. I'll take that as a concession of same.
 
Goobieman said:
Far less odd that you continually refusing to address my premise and show how it is unsound.
Instead, you offer a red herring, in order to distract the conversation away from that premise.
You continue to avoid the point. I'll take that as a concession of same.
Click to expand...

Man, you are like a dog on a bone.

I addressed your video and the contents three times:

Page 17

10-16-10 @ 4:02 pm

Page 18

10-20-10 @ 9:20 pm

10-21-10 @ 8:05 PM

I dont know what more you want from me.
 
Conservative said:
We have a number of good people running for office fortunately most come with the Tea Party label. The real answer today is term limits. Didn't use to think that way but do now. I have a lot of good friends in the banking business that know first hand what was going on in 2008 and neither Chase or Wells Fargo wanted the money and both have paid it back.

The fact is, Obama has done irreputable harm to this economy in just two years. The next two he will remain in campaign mode blaming the Republicans who will be in charge. He doesn't know what he is doing, hired a lot of liberal elites with no real life business experience as I pointed out and they are implementing policy that is a disaster. If the Democrats maintain control they will be empowered to do more of what they have done, high unemployment and high deficits. This country and our economy cannot support this agenda.
Click to expand...

What were the irrputable harms that President Obama has done. Im not a fan and did not vote for him. Im just curious.
 
ender1 said:
What were the irrputable harms that President Obama has done. Im not a fan and did not vote for him. Im just curious.
Click to expand...

3 trillion added to the debt getting it closer to 100% of GDP, Unfunded mandates to the states for Obamacare, suing a sovereign state trying to defend itself, appeasement of our enemies, bailout of union pensions that taxpayers have to fund, massive expansion of the size and scope of the Federal Govt, creation of a record number of Czars, massive intrusion into the private sector. Want me to go on?
 
Bush created 3 million jobs in his 8 years as president.

By WSJ Staff
President George W. Bush entered office in 2001 just as a recession was starting, and is preparing to leave in the middle of a long one. That’s almost 22 months of recession during his 96 months in office.

His job-creation record won’t look much better. The Bush administration created about three million jobs (net) over its eight years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Bill Clinton’s administration and only slightly better than President George H.W. Bush did in his four years in office.
Click to expand...

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ
 
Conservative said:
3 trillion added to the debt getting it closer to 100% of GDP, Unfunded mandates to the states for Obamacare, suing a sovereign state trying to defend itself, appeasement of our enemies, bailout of union pensions that taxpayers have to fund, massive expansion of the size and scope of the Federal Govt, creation of a record number of Czars, massive intrusion into the private sector. Want me to go on?
Click to expand...

I thought we just agreed that it was 1.3 Trillion. Where did we get the other 1.7 trillion.

I am not a fan of the new healthcare that was passed but healthcare was broken. What would you have done?

I agree with Arizona

Not sure what appeasments you are talking about but not sure how that effects the economy.

I do not agree with any of the bail outs.

What is wrong with czars and how does that cause issues with the economy.

What intrusions into the private sector are you speaking about.

We can start here.
 
pbrauer said:
Bush created 3 million jobs in his 8 years as president.



Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ
Click to expand...

Interesting that BLS gives a different picture. Here are the employment numbers from BLS for December each year. Looks to me like there were 8.5 million more employed in December 2007 than there was in December 2000. Looks to me like Obama has done a great job getting us back to 2000 levels.

From BLS, employment in December each year. You really ought to become more familar with the site if you care anything about your credibility.

Year Dec
2000 137614
2001 136047
2002 136426
2003 138411
2004 140125
2005 142752
2006 145914
2007 146173
2008 143188
2009 137792
 
Last edited:
ender1 said:
I thought we just agreed that it was 1.3 Trillion. Where did we get the other 1.7 trillion.

I am not a fan of the new healthcare that was passed but healthcare was broken. What would you have done?

I agree with Arizona

Not sure what appeasments you are talking about but not sure how that effects the economy.

I do not agree with any of the bail outs.

What is wrong with czars and how does that cause issues with the economy.

What intrusions into the private sector are you speaking about.

We can start here.
Click to expand...

Two year deficits total over 3 trillion dollars, Debt was 10.5 trillion when Bush left office, it is almost 14 trillion now.

What I have provided tax incentives for people to purchase their own health care

Iran and North Korea are emboldened and our empty suit President isn't addressing this issue. Problems in the region will indeed affect our economy.

Czars are unelected, non controllable bureaucrats telling private business what they can and cannot do. Let the market work and enforce existing laws.

I don't agree with the bailouts either but it was done.

forcing people to buy healthcare and businesses to offer it is intrusion into private business. It isn't the government's business what private industry does as long as it is legal. These are unfunded mandates to private business driving up costs.
 
Conservative said:
Interesting that BLS gives a different picture. Here are the employment numbers from BLS for December each year. Looks to me like there were 8.5 million more employed in December 2008 than there was in December 2000. Looks to me like Obama has done a great job getting us back to 2000 levels.

From BLS, employment in December each year. You really ought to become more familar with the site if you care anything about your credibility.

Year Dec
2000 137614
2001 136047
2002 136426
2003 138411
2004 140125
2005 142752
2006 145914
2007 146173
2008 143188
2009 137792
Click to expand...
My link was from the Wall Street Journal, I think they have a better handle on the data as you seem to have. I suspect there is some analysis to be done rather than looking at raw data as you have done. I think thats true of all the numbers you have posted over the months.

The link that I posted contains a table that can be sorted by clicking on the column head.
 
pbrauer said:
My link was from the Wall Street Journal, I think they have a better handle on the data as you seem to have. I suspect there is some analysis to be done rather than looking at raw data as you have done. I think thats true of all the numbers you have posted over the months.

The link that I posted contains a table that can be sorted by clicking on the column head.
Click to expand...

Really? The Wall Street Journal is the keeper of employment and unemployment data? Interesting, cite your source? Have you told the govt. yet that they no longer need the Bureau of Labor Statistics?

Now what does any of this have to do with the present? How is that hope and change working out for you? 16 million unemployed Americans, 4 million less employed today than when he took office( guess the population dropped, right?)

Please name for me any other President that one year after a recession ended had these kind of unemployment numbers? Unemployment should be dropping but isn't. Economic growth should be greater but it isn't. Hard for you to admit that you were duped by this empty suit, isn't it?
 
Conservative said:
Two year deficits total over 3 trillion dollars, Debt was 10.5 trillion when Bush left office, it is almost 14 trillion now.

What I have provided tax incentives for people to purchase their own health care

Iran and North Korea are emboldened and our empty suit President isn't addressing this issue. Problems in the region will indeed affect our economy.

Czars are unelected, non controllable bureaucrats telling private business what they can and cannot do. Let the market work and enforce existing laws.

I don't agree with the bailouts either but it was done.

forcing people to buy healthcare and businesses to offer it is intrusion into private business. It isn't the government's business what private industry does as long as it is legal. These are unfunded mandates to private business driving up costs.
Click to expand...

I wont argue the debt. It makes me upset that both the Democrats and Republicans have spent out of control

The question I think needs to be asked is if Health Care is something that every citizen should have or is it only for those who can afford it.

Iran and NK are run by crazy people. You cant reason with crazy people.

You do remember who started the whole Czar thing right.
 
ender1 said:
I wont argue the debt. It makes me upset that both the Democrats and Republicans have spent out of control

The question I think needs to be asked is if Health Care is something that every citizen should have or is it only for those who can afford it.

Iran and NK are run by crazy people. You cant reason with crazy people.

You do remember who started the whole Czar thing right.
Click to expand...

Not sure the purpose of continuing this but the thread topic is Wash Bush a better President than Obama and based upon the actual Bush results vs. the Obama results to date my answer stands, yes, he was a better President. Obama has dug such a deep hole that it will be impossible for him to dig his way out especially with his ideology. His goal was to change this country into a European economic model and he is well on his way of doing that as he works towards cradle to grave coverage. He is going to have to drastically change his policies to focus on the private sector and i don't think he is capable of doing that. Ideologues never change
 
Conservative said:
Really? The Wall Street Journal is the keeper of employment and unemployment data? Interesting, cite your source? Have you told the govt. yet that they no longer need the Bureau of Labor Statistics?

Now what does any of this have to do with the present? How is that hope and change working out for you? 16 million unemployed Americans, 4 million less employed today than when he took office( guess the population dropped, right?)

Please name for me any other President that one year after a recession ended had these kind of unemployment numbers? Unemployment should be dropping but isn't. Economic growth should be greater but it isn't. Hard for you to admit that you were duped by this empty suit, isn't it?
Click to expand...
You still want to blame Obama for what happen under Bush's watch. The economy is dues to the excesses in Wall Street and the big financial institutions. Whether or not the economy is Bush's fault, it still happened during his watch as president not during Obama's presidency. Much of the debt today is due the policies implemented during the Bush administration.

OBTW, the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch, hardly a leftist.
 
pbrauer said:
You still want to blame Obama for what happen under Bush's watch. The economy is dues to the excesses in Wall Street and the big financial institutions. Whether or not the economy is Bush's fault, it still happened during his watch as president not during Obama's presidency. Much of the debt today is due the policies implemented during the Bush administration.

OBTW, the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch, hardly a leftist.
Click to expand...

You still want to blame Bush for what's happened under Obama's watch. And as long as Media Matters says so, you'll continue.
 
pbrauer said:
You still want to blame Obama for what happen under Bush's watch. The economy is dues to the excesses in Wall Street and the big financial institutions. Whether or not the economy is Bush's fault, it still happened during his watch as president not during Obama's presidency. Much of the debt today is due the policies implemented during the Bush administration.

OBTW, the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch, hardly a leftist.
Click to expand...

Nope, there is enough blame to go around but to continue to focus on the past is just your way of ignoring the present and diverting from the Obama results. What you want to do is ignore what Obama has done and how he has made it worse.

Obama is President, he started campaigning for the job after his first year in the Senate and his resume shows someone who lacked any management or leadership skills so we are getting the results many of us expected. You are the one that wants to keep Bush in the discussion when Bush has been gone for two years.

I am waiting for you to answer the direct questions raised but doubt will ever happen. Name for me any President in U.S. History that had worse unemployment numbers one year AFTER a recession ended. Name for me one President in U.S. History who one year after the recession had higher unemployment each month than when the recession ended so Obama is the issue, not Bush.

There is a reason that the poll numbers show a decline in his job approval ratings. Apparently there are still some like you that never will "get it."
 
Conservative said:
Not sure the purpose of continuing this
Click to expand...

Ok how about the fact that in one fell swoop President Bush took away two of my amendment rights. That is why President Bush is a worse president.
 
ender1 said:
Ok how about the fact that in one fell swoop President Bush took away two of my amendment rights. That is why President Bush is a worse president.
Click to expand...

LOL, what amendment rights did Bush take away from you, that is total BS. If you mean the Patriot Act, Obama reauthorized it and made it tougher. Looks like Obama wants to take away more of your privacy than Bush ever did. Name for me any AMERICAN prosecuted under the Patriot Act?

Obama Admin Wants to Allow Web Wiretapping
7:50 PM - September 30, 2010 - By Jane McEntegart -

The Obama administration is preparing to submit a bill to lawmakers that would make it possible for law enforcement officials to 'wiretap the internet' if they need to
 
Last edited:
Conservative said:
Nope, there is enough blame to go around but to continue to focus on the past is just your way of ignoring the present and diverting from the Obama results. What you want to do is ignore what Obama has done and how he has made it worse.

Obama is President, he started campaigning for the job after his first year in the Senate and his resume shows someone who lacked any management or leadership skills so we are getting the results many of us expected. You are the one that wants to keep Bush in the discussion when Bush has been gone for two years.

I am waiting for you to answer the direct questions raised but doubt will ever happen. Name for me any President in U.S. History that had worse unemployment numbers one year AFTER a recession ended. Name for me one President in U.S. History who one year after the recession had higher unemployment each month than when the recession ended so Obama is the issue, not Bush.

There is a reason that the poll numbers show a decline in his job approval ratings. Apparently there are still some like you that never will "get it."
Click to expand...

Hhmmm.. strange that you would say that “the poll numbers show a decline in his job approval “when his numbers have actually went from 54% from the 48% he had in September.

Another thing that is troubling, why you want to ignore history (the bush presidency) when you say in the first paragraph of your post ” to continue to focus on the past is just your way of ignoring the present then three paragraphs down you create a history strawman quiz” Name for me any President in U.S. History that had worse unemployment numbers one year AFTER a recession ended. “Very puzzling. :confused:


(President Obama’s approval ratings have jumped substantially, crossing the magic halfway threshold to 54 percent, up from 48 percent in late September, while the portion of respondents who disapprove of the president dropped to 40 percent, the lowest disapproval rating in a NEWSWEEK Poll since February 2010.)


Poll: Obama Approval Jumps, Dems More Fired Up - Newsweek
 
ender1 said:
Man, you are like a dog on a bone.
I addressed your video and the contents three times:
Page 17
10-16-10 @ 4:02 pm
Click to expand...
This doesnt exit. Try a link.

Page 18
10-20-10 @ 9:20 pm
Yes, President Obama made critiacl statements against President Bush. Saying what President Bush did was poor judgement.
Click to expand...
Yes...This is The Obama describing how/why GWB was a "poor" President.

John Stewart pointed out how President Obama has made similar choices.
Click to expand...
Actually, he pointed out how The Obma was doing the same thing or expanding the things that made GWB a poor President.

So... If you agree that those things made GWB a poor president, you cannot help but agree that The Obama, who has continued or expanded those things, is worse.
Nothing you have posted here does anything but AGREE with the argument.

Here is what you leave out. If you want to use John Stewart as a litnus test for poor judgement then lets count the number of times he used President Bushs words against him
Click to expand...
This was "left out" because it it completely irrelevant to my point, and is noithing but a red herring offered up by you to try to avoid that point.


10-21-10 @ 8:05 PM
In the 8:30 clip John Stewart takes a few of President Obamas campaign statements where he was critical of President Bush and in a very funny way expresses how in fact he did not change anything at all. Instead he continued in the very same way in which President Bush did.
Click to expand...
Yes...This is The Obama describing how/why GWB was a "poor" President.
He then pointed out how The Obma was doing the same thing or expanding the things that made GWB a poor President.
So... If you agree that those things made GWB a poor president, you cannot help but agree that The Obama, who has continued or expanded those things, is worse.
Nothing you have posted here does anything but AGREE with the argument.

I dont know what more you want from me.
Click to expand...
To directly address my premise, and either show how it is unsounrd or admit that you cannot.
You have done nothing other than restate my premise and agred that the supporting arguments are true.
If GWB pwas a poor president because he did XWZ then The Obama -must- be a more poor President because the did >WYZ
 
donc said:
Hhmmm.. strange that you would say that “the poll numbers show a decline in his job approval “when his numbers have actually went from 54% from the 48% he had in September.

Another thing that is troubling, why you want to ignore history (the bush presidency) when you say in the first paragraph of your post ” to continue to focus on the past is just your way of ignoring the present then three paragraphs down you create a history strawman quiz” Name for me any President in U.S. History that had worse unemployment numbers one year AFTER a recession ended. “Very puzzling. :confused:


(President Obama’s approval ratings have jumped substantially, crossing the magic halfway threshold to 54 percent, up from 48 percent in late September, while the portion of respondents who disapprove of the president dropped to 40 percent, the lowest disapproval rating in a NEWSWEEK Poll since February 2010.)


Poll: Obama Approval Jumps, Dems More Fired Up - Newsweek
Click to expand...

Rasmussen has him at 46, Gallup has him at 41%. Newsweek poll is skewed highly Democrat per the *

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Obama Job Approval

Why would anyone but the brain dead support Obama with the results he has generated? What exactly has he done that deserves support? Anyone that supports him buys the rhetoric and ignores the results.

Higher unemployment each month of 2010 vs. 2009
4 million less employed today than when he took office
over 3 trillion added to the debt
unfunded mandates to the states with Obamacare
1.6% GDP growth which is down vs. 2009.

One of these days Obama supporters are going to wake up and wonder what happened.
 
Last edited:
Goobieman said:
Barack Obama (D)
Click to expand...

There certainly isn't any logic with an Obama supporter as it is all about the D after the name and personal feelings. Notice that no one can give a logic, factual reason to support the Obama agenda.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom