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Private sector sheds 39,000 jobs in September

QUOTE Conservative

And yet Medicare is running a shortfall thus furthering my argument that no private business can competed against the govt.
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Tell that to the Medicare Advantage plans(UHC, CVH, KP) that are inundating the airwaves wanting us old folks to hire them.

With all that waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare you really shouldn't be pointing to a 8.8% cost because that is bogus.
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According to CMS.gov it’s not bogus.

http://www.cms.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/tables.pdf
 
Conservative said:
Why? Because healthcare is a personal responsibility, not a bureaucratic responsibility.
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less compare this to one's transportation. it too, is a personal responsibility, but notice how effectively government builds and maintains roads and air transport facilities for the use of the traveling public
to insist healthcare is something the government should absent itself for being involved in would be like insisting there should be no public transportation systems. this is but a singular example. let me know if you need more
It should be handled by the states and local communities and not the Federal Govt. which has proven to be inefficient in everything it does.
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yes, that government which has fielded the best military ever to be found on the planet. that's the government which you insist can't shoot straight? again, a singular example proving your premise to be very wrong; feel free to ask for more
History shows the fallacy of your argument so why do you ignore history? No one has diagnosed the problem, only came up with a bureaucratic solution to a perceived problem to appease people like you. Why do you think it is my responsibility to pay for your insurance because I don't think it is your responsibility to pay for mine.
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now that i have proven your argument is all wet, you are welcome to come back and try again
 
Yeah lets just leave it to the States:
Texas is the uninsured capital of the United States. More than 5.8 million Texans - including 1.5 million children - lack health insurance. Texas' uninsurance rates, 1.5 to 2 times the national average, create significant problems in the financing and delivery of health care to all Texans. Those who lack insurance coverage typically enjoy far-worse health status than their insured counterparts.

*
TMA's 2007 Legislative Agenda on the Uninsured
*
Quick Statistics on the Uninsured in Texas and in the U.S.
*
Download table of Uninsured Rates for All 254 Texas Counties

Health Insurance Coverage of Adults 19-64, 2006-2007, U.S. and four largest states




Population


Uninsured


% Uninsured


Rank

United States


182,781,250


36,098,690


20%




California


22,254,970


5,360,940


24%


1

Texas


13,898,420


4,214,860


30%


2

Florida


10,767,310


2,840,920


28%


3

New York


11,807,120


2,130,790


18%


4
Health Insurance Coverage of Children 0-18, 2006-2007, U.S. and four largest states
The Uninsured in Texas
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Well maybe not Texas.
 
donc said:
Tell that to the Medicare Advantage plans(UHC, CVH, KP) that are inundating the airwaves wanting us old folks to hire them.



According to CMS.gov it’s not bogus.

http://www.cms.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/tables.pdf
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Bet you don't have a problem with earmarks either for after all it "is someone else's money" isn't it? Doesn't really matter where it comes from or how much it costs as long as you get the benefits.

You continue to ignore the costs and the entitlement mentality. When does it stop? Why should a bureaucrat in D.C. tell someone in your home town how to adminster healthcare to you?

These programs cost more than they were ever supposed to cost and do less than they were commissioned to do thus the waste, fraud, and abuse, yet it doesn't matter to you or anyone else because you cannot see that there are alternatives other than the Federal Govt.

As I have stated, "those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it" and what I find is liberal arrogance that claims this group of liberals can do things better than the last group of liberals.
 
winston53660 said:
Yeah lets just leave it to the States:


Well maybe not Texas.
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Yet, TX got it right and continues to get it right, Texans believe in personal responsibility at least the majority do. We just added 20 new Republican legislators to the State Legislature so apparently the majority in this state don't have a problem paying for their own healthcare. Seems like that is a foreign concept for liberals.

I don't get it, where is there history of any govt. social program costing what it was supposed to cost, doing what it was supposed to do and solving a problem?
 
justabubba said:
less compare this to one's transportation. it too, is a personal responsibility, but notice how effectively government builds and maintains roads and air transport facilities for the use of the traveling public
to insist healthcare is something the government should absent itself for being involved in would be like insisting there should be no public transportation systems. this is but a singular example. let me know if you need more
yes, that government which has fielded the best military ever to be found on the planet. that's the government which you insist can't shoot straight? again, a singular example proving your premise to be very wrong; feel free to ask for more

now that i have proven your argument is all wet, you are welcome to come back and try again
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It is called public highways for a reason and those public highways are funded by the gasoline taxes you pay everytime you fill up. It is quite a stretch to go from individual healthcare to the highway system that is used by all. No one is preventing anyone from paying for their own healthcare.

As for national defense that is the requirement of the govt. Guess you missed the $700 hammers. There is waste, fraud, and abuse in the military but national security is mandated by the govt. not healthcare. I don't condone the waste, fraud, and abuse in the military either but at least I understand why we have a military. Please show me where healthcare is even mentioned in the Constitution?
 
Conservative said:
Yet, TX got it right and continues to get it right, Texans believe in personal responsibility at least the majority do. We just added 20 new Republican legislators to the State Legislature so apparently the majority in this state don't have a problem paying for their own healthcare. Seems like that is a foreign concept for liberals.

I don't get it, where is there history of any govt. social program costing what it was supposed to cost, doing what it was supposed to do and solving a problem?
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Hmmm not even a mention about what to do about the uninsured from you.
 
winston53660 said:
Hmmm not even a mention about what to do about the uninsured from you.
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To get the uninsured insured we don't need a 2000 page national healthcare bill administered by the Federal Govt. and one that 111 obama constituent groups have been granted waivers to opt out. If it is such a big issue then handle it in the states. Doesn't look like it is a big issue in TX as we added 20 Republican Legislators to the State Legislature and had repeal of Obamacare as one of the top issues.
 
Conservative said:
To get the uninsured insured we don't need a 2000 page national healthcare bill administered by the Federal Govt. and one that 111 obama constituent groups have been granted waivers to opt out. If it is such a big issue then handle it in the states. Doesn't look like it is a big issue in TX as we added 20 Republican Legislators to the State Legislature and had repeal of Obamacare as one of the top issues.
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Would you like some cheese with your whine?:roll:
 
donc said:
Yet Medicare and the VA get more bang for the buck than private insurance. Amazing isn’t it?
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Getting more bang for your buck is dragging our economy down I tell you!!!!

{/s}
 
QUOTE Conservative

Why should a bureaucrat in D.C. tell someone in your home town how to adminster healthcare to you?
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As opposed to a insurance company bean counter in another town determining wither they can make more money by kicking out a claim by calling it a “preexisting condition”.



These programs cost more than they were ever supposed to cost and do less than they were commissioned to do thus the waste, fraud, and abuse, yet it doesn't matter to you or anyone else because you cannot see that there are alternatives other than the Federal Govt.
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What is your alternative? Lets have it.
 
winston53660 said:
Would you like some cheese with your whine?:roll:
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The only one whining are people like you who always seem to claim that it is someone else's money that is required to pay for your personal responsibilites. Most people don't have a problem taking care of those truly in need but don't like forced redistribution of personal income by some federal bureaucrat.
 
donc said:
As opposed to a insurance company bean counter in another town determining wither they can make more money by kicking out a claim by calling it a “preexisting condition”.





What is your alternative? Lets have it.
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Local and state programs funded based upon the will of the people.
 
Conservative said:
It is called public highways for a reason and those public highways are funded by the gasoline taxes you pay everytime you fill up. It is quite a stretch to go from individual healthcare to the highway system that is used by all. No one is preventing anyone from paying for their own healthcare.
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so, if we call it a public healthcare system and it is funded by publicly paid taxes, why is that be any different from the public transportation system funded by publicly paid taxes?

As for national defense that is the requirement of the govt. Guess you missed the $700 hammers. There is waste, fraud, and abuse in the military but national security is mandated by the govt. not healthcare.
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so, are you telling us that the federal government you insists cannot operate programs effectively has an ineffective military? or will you now concede that the federal government does have a history of getting many things right

I don't condone the waste, fraud, and abuse in the military either but at least I understand why we have a military.
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and there is waste fraud and abuse in the existing public healthcare system (the one Obama failed to expand to all in a failed effort to work with an intrangient republican party). no one is asking you to condone waste fraud and abuse. can't recall ever seeing a poster saying what we need in government is more waste fraud and abuse. but i can see - when one third of our citizens have no access to healthcare - why we need a public healthcare system
Please show me where healthcare is even mentioned in the Constitution?
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you first. show me in the constitution where there is a specific provision for the public highway system you do not oppose
your outrage is quite selective
but you are again welcome to come back and play again
 
Conservative said:
The only one whining are people like you who always seem to claim that it is someone else's money that is required to pay for your personal responsibilites. Most people don't have a problem taking care of those truly in need but don't like forced redistribution of personal income by some federal bureaucrat.
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I'll take that as a yes:

easy-cheese.jpg
 
justabubba;1059111026]so, if we call it a public healthcare system and it is funded by publicly paid taxes, why is that be any different from the public transportation system funded by publicly paid taxes?
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It can be funded by local and state taxes, not Federal one size fits all program. Let the states decide, not a Federal Govt.

so, are you telling us that the federal government you insists cannot operate programs effectively has an ineffective military? or will you now concede that the federal government does have a history of getting many things right
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The Federal Govt. has never gotten a social issue right because healthcare is personal and there isn't one solution for 310 million people.


and there is waste fraud and abuse in the existing public healthcare system (the one Obama failed to expand to all in a failed effort to work with an intrangient republican party). no one is asking you to condone waste fraud and abuse. can't recall ever seeing a poster saying what we need in government is more waste fraud and abuse. but i can see - when one third of our citizens have no access to healthcare - why we need a public healthcare system
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Obama had complete control of Congress and couldn't sell his own party and rightly so. You seem to have a problem admitting when you are wrong. What if you are wrong regarding a public option, then what? I have yet to see anyone explain to me why healthcare is a federal taxpayer responsibility since the state and local communities pay for ER services for those uninsured, mostly illegals.

you first. show me in the constitution where there is a specific provision for the public highway system you do not oppose
your outrage is quite selective
but you are again welcome to come back and play again
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The only ones paying for the highways system are those driving cars, don't drive and you aren't paying for it. You really are reaching here.

Why such passion for paying for someone else's personal responsibility? You work for the govt?
 
Conservative said:
Local and state programs funded based upon the will of the people.
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Local and state programs funded based upon the will of the people.
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:confused:




Care to show me an example of where this has worked previously? Also, seeing as your so concerned with the bottom line, show us how it will be more cost effective than Medicare.
 
donc said:
:confused:




Care to show me an example of where this has worked previously? Also, seeing as your so concerned with the bottom line, show us how it will be more cost effective than Medicare.
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Let the citizens of the state decide what they are willing to fund and support.
 
Conservative said:
Let the citizens of the state decide what they are willing to fund and support.
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teenager_kicking_a_can_CoolClips_vc015042.jpg


Typical conservative position.Kick the ole can on down the road.:2wave:
 
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donc said:
teenager_kicking_a_can_CoolClips_vc015042.jpg


Typical conservative position.Kick the ole can on down the road.:2wave:
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Don't you ever get tired of believing you have the answer for everyone else's personal responsibility issues? what is it about liberals who believe they have the answers, ignore the will of the people, and then show arrogance when a liberal program fails believing that this group of liberals can do it better? I am becoming convinced that liberals are insane, keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
 
QUOTE Conservative

Don't you ever get tired of believing you have the answer for everyone else's personal responsibility issues?
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Hhmm…nothing here about the subject we were discussing (healthcare).


what is it about liberals who believe they have the answers, ignore the will of the people, and then show arrogance when a liberal program fails believing that this group of liberals can do it better?
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Nothing here either.....moving on down the road.

I am becoming convinced that liberals are insane, keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
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So sad…I was hoping to see some real suggestions/solutions and all I get is bloviateing and ad homs.:(
 
donc said:
Hhmm…nothing here about the subject we were discussing (healthcare).




Nothing here either.....moving on down the road.



So sad…I was hoping to see some real suggestions/solutions and all I get is bloviateing and ad homs.:(
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You just don't like the answer I gave which is the right one, let the state and local communities decide on the best program for the uninsured. Looks to me like you don't have an answer so you just throw someone else's money at the problem which ignores the ultimate goal of a single payer system with everyone dependent on the govt. Why don't you go first? This is such a good national program, why are Obama constituent groups opting out?
 
QUOTE Conservative

You just don't like the answer I gave which is the right one, let the state and local communities decide on the best program for the uninsured.
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SURE…” let the state and local communities decide “mean while back at the Republican Governors' Association meeting in Calyfornia. :roll:

“Deep budget cuts are coming”,” Incoming Republican governors from Pennsylvania to New Mexico are vowing to keep campaign promises to slice already cut-to-the-bone budgets and balance them without raising taxes. “


Looks to me like you don't have an answer so you just throw someone else's money at the problem which ignores the ultimate goal of a single payer system with everyone dependent on the govt.
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You might want to revisit post #392 again for my answer.

Why don't you go first? This is such a good national program, why are Obama constituent groups opting out?
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Most likely because they would rather have some form of single payer, rather than this 2000 thousand plus page monstrosity.
 
donc said:
SURE…” let the state and local communities decide “mean while back at the Republican Governors' Association meeting in Calyfornia. :roll:

“Deep budget cuts are coming”,” Incoming Republican governors from Pennsylvania to New Mexico are vowing to keep campaign promises to slice already cut-to-the-bone budgets and balance them without raising taxes. “




You might want to revisit post #392 again for my answer.




Most likely because they would rather have some form of single payer, rather than this 2000 thousand plus page monstrosity.
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You don't seem to get it, this is a govt. of the people, by the people, and for the people thus a local and state responsibility. There is no evidence of any Federal Program solving a social problem only throwing more and more money at it. You have so much faith in the federal gov.t in spite of their failures. Guess that is the liberal way of passing of responsibility to someone else. Liberals don't understand that the responsibility to solve the healthcare problem is yours and your states, not a bureaucrat in D.C. Stop the whining and complaining and get involved locally. I don't support the Federal Govt. trying to solve a local problem.
 
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