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Private sector sheds 39,000 jobs in September

Except they would adjust one way or another. It is not the first time business has had to adjust and won't be the last. And if business was really concerned, they would push for government healthcare, relieving them from the equation. But, they're not really that concerned. And neither are conservatives. Really.

How can you adjust if you do not yet know the costs. This is why unemployment will not change. Obama and the dems are not letting business know the cost of insurance and taxes. Dems refused to extend tax cuts so far.

Does anyone know how much health insurance is going up? My private policy for me and my wife is increasing over $100 a month
 
How can you adjust if you do not yet know the costs. This is why unemployment will not change. Obama and the dems are not letting business know the cost of insurance and taxes. Dems refused to extend tax cuts so far.

Does anyone know how much health insurance is going up? My private policy for me and my wife is increasing over $100 a month

They can adjust as it comes up. And frankly, it really isn't that big a mystery. It's really more a spin by those who oppose it than anything else. Remember, insurance was going up before reform. It's been going up and giving less for years now. And business has always adjusted to it.
 
They can adjust as it comes up. And frankly, it really isn't that big a mystery. It's really more a spin by those who oppose it than anything else. Remember, insurance was going up before reform. It's been going up and giving less for years now. And business has always adjusted to it.

How do you adjust for the unknown. Obama is making sure the private sector has no knowledge of the liabilities so they will not hire and he can use it as an excuse to grow government
 
How do you adjust for the unknown. Obama is making sure the private sector has no knowledge of the liabilities so they will not hire and he can use it as an excuse to grow government

I do it daily. I never know what is going to happen in a class, but I adjust. I never know what is going to break down at home, or what others will do, but I plan and adjust. Again, nothing is really new. premiums have bene going up for decades, and all for less coverage. And all they have to do is read the Bill. They have people who can do that. And they can make reasoponable assuptions and plan for the worse. This isn't as impossible as you're trying to make it.
 
I do it daily. I never know what is going to happen in a class, but I adjust. I never know what is going to break down at home, or what others will do, but I plan and adjust. Again, nothing is really new. premiums have bene going up for decades, and all for less coverage. And all they have to do is read the Bill. They have people who can do that. And they can make reasoponable assuptions and plan for the worse. This isn't as impossible as you're trying to make it.

Nice spin but you are not talking about half your profit margin
 
Nice spin but you are not talking about half your profit margin

No one is really facing half their profit margin. It just isn't happening. While I allowed your hypothethical, bon't for a second actually believe anyone is facing that.
 
No one is really facing half their profit margin. It just isn't happening. While I allowed your hypothethical, bon't for a second actually believe anyone is facing that.

It most certainly could. Many small business do not offer health insurance now they will be forced to. Obamacare will cause huge rises in rates. As I said mine is going up well over $100 a month
 
It most certainly could. Many small business do not offer health insurance now they will be forced to. Obamacare will cause huge rises in rates. As I said mine is going up well over $100 a month

I could win the lottery, but I wouldn't count it as I haven't even bought a ticket. You have to demonstrat some actually reason to believe it could. But had we been open with less hyperbolic scare tactics, we'd have more duely considered the [public option. As I have said, if we were really concerned about business, we'd have sought to remove them from the equation, like with a system in which business didn't provide it. Say, a government run program? ;)
 
I could win the lottery, but I wouldn't count it as I haven't even bought a ticket. You have to demonstrat some actually reason to believe it could. But had we been open with less hyperbolic scare tactics, we'd have more duely considered the [public option. As I have said, if we were really concerned about business, we'd have sought to remove them from the equation, like with a system in which business didn't provide it. Say, a government run program? ;)

so you know this will hurt business and are still trying to defend Obama?

Insurance Regulators Approve Increases Based on Obamacare | OpenMarket.org
 
Who was to blame when the up them before reform? I start my job paying $105 a month for a family plan. Two years ago it went up $205 a month (less coverage btw). Did Obama care do that?

Does not matter Obamacare was supposed to keep payments low now you want to say he is not to blame.

ObamaCare Causes Insurance Premium Hikes | FreedomWorks

Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the [ObamaCare] law, according to filings with state regulators. These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted… Many carriers also are seeking additional rate increases that they say they need to cover rising medical costs. As a result, some consumers could face total premium increases of more than 20%.
 
Does not matter Obamacare was supposed to keep payments low now you want to say he is not to blame.

ObamaCare Causes Insurance Premium Hikes | FreedomWorks

Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the [ObamaCare] law, according to filings with state regulators. These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted… Many carriers also are seeking additional rate increases that they say they need to cover rising medical costs. As a result, some consumers could face total premium increases of more than 20%.

It does matter. it shows that insurance companies look for reasons to up the rate and they have no problem getting them approved. They raised rates a ton without Obama care. And will always raise rates. That is the problem with this system. Profit based means they win when they take in more than they put out. And the more they take in on top of that, the more they win. Not demonizing here, just noting the nature of the business. It would be bad business not to take advantage where they can.

As mind doubled before Obama care, 20% doesn't scare me that much. ;)
 
It does matter. it shows that insurance companies look for reasons to up the rate and they have no problem getting them approved. They raised rates a ton without Obama care. And will always raise rates. That is the problem with this system. Profit based means they win when they take in more than they put out. And the more they take in on top of that, the more they win. Not demonizing here, just noting the nature of the business. It would be bad business not to take advantage where they can.

As mind doubled before Obama care, 20% doesn't scare me that much. ;)

You need to face reality this plan is hurting us.

Boeing is no small company and it is hurting them.

Citing health care law, Boeing pares employee plan - Yahoo! News
 
You need to face reality this plan is hurting us.

Boeing is no small company and it is hurting them.

Citing health care law, Boeing pares employee plan - Yahoo! News

It wasn't hurting them before? Like I keep saying, the only real way for it not to hurt them is to remove it from employment. We're not willing to do that. A public option would have been better. But again, we made sure that didn't happen. So, we have something less. But let's not pretend this wasn't happening before.

Also, one has to ask, with more people paying premiums, exactly why does an insurance company have to increase? They can claim any reason, bit logically, if more people have insurance, more paying premiums, does it really follow that it is costing them more?
 
It wasn't hurting them before? Like I keep saying, the only real way for it not to hurt them is to remove it from employment. We're not willing to do that. A public option would have been better. But again, we made sure that didn't happen. So, we have something less. But let's not pretend this wasn't happening before.

Also, one has to ask, with more people paying premiums, exactly why does an insurance company have to increase? They can claim any reason, bit logically, if more people have insurance, more paying premiums, does it really follow that it is costing them more?

The employment problem and economy will be hurt by Obamacare. I guess medical is more important than shelter and food
 
The employment problem and economy will be hurt by Obamacare. I guess medical is more important than shelter and food

No one argues that food and shelter are unimportant or less important, or even equal. But health care is important, and it has been going up for decades with reducing benefits (don't forget that second part). Something had to be done. And the only way to have a second, thrid or four step in that direction is to have a first step. I don't see this as a finished product. but I welcome a start over allowing the misinformation to prevent any work in the right direction.

Again, all you complain about was going on before reform. Even if it is continuing with Obama care, we at least get more for it. And don't ignore this point:

Also, one has to ask, with more people paying premiums, exactly why does an insurance company have to increase? They can claim any reason, but logically, if more people have insurance, more paying premiums, does it really follow that it is costing them more?
 
No one argues that food and shelter are unimportant or less important, or even equal. But health care is important, and it has been going up for decades with reducing benefits (don't forget that second part). Something had to be done. And the only way to have a second, thrid or four step in that direction is to have a first step. I don't see this as a finished product. but I welcome a start over allowing the misinformation to prevent any work in the right direction.

Again, all you complain about was going on before reform. Even if it is continuing with Obama care, we at least get more for it. And don't ignore this point:

Also, one has to ask, with more people paying premiums, exactly why does an insurance company have to increase? They can claim any reason, but logically, if more people have insurance, more paying premiums, does it really follow that it is costing them more?

Obama should have been working on the economy and unemployment as priorities not healthcare. It shows how incompetent he is and how his priorities are all wrong
 
Obama should have been working on the economy and unemployment as priorities not healthcare. It shows how incompetent he is and how his priorities are all wrong

He should have been, and has been, working on both. He doesn't control the economy. Him sitting there watching it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. The work day proves enough time to tackle more than one thing.
 

I appreciate your effort, but these seem to look in one direct, what's being asked of the provider. I don't see where it accounts for the new membership and increased revenue coming in. One of the reason insurance works is because more pay who don't use than is put out by the insurance company. if the major of those being mandated are as healthy as some claim, then that's revenue coming in that adds to the money available to pay for thsese services. So, it is possible that some are either not adding these monies in, or perhaps they don't believe enough of those coming in will be healthy. In any case, no matter what the cause, I would like a evaluation that includes the increase in revenue.
 
I appreciate your effort, but these seem to look in one direct, what's being asked of the provider. I don't see where it accounts for the new membership and increased revenue coming in. One of the reason insurance works is because more pay who don't use than is put out by the insurance company. if the major of those being mandated are as healthy as some claim, then that's revenue coming in that adds to the money available to pay for thsese services. So, it is possible that some are either not adding these monies in, or perhaps they don't believe enough of those coming in will be healthy. In any case, no matter what the cause, I would like a evaluation that includes the increase in revenue.

From the 3rd link I posted...

But this may be the most significant part of the report, and it comes at the end of The Hill’s report:
The analysis does not measure the effects on premiums of a proposed excise tax on the most expensive insurance plans. Consistent with their previous reports, the CBO and the JCT predict that most people who currently have so-called Cadillac insurance plans would opt for less expensive insurance to avoid the tax.
Why is this so significant? The Senate plan envisioned a $259 billion revenue stream from this tax in the first decade. As I argued at the time, this static tax analysis would be proven dead wrong and leave a huge hole in the funding of ObamaCare.
The CBO and the JCT apparently agree.
 
From the 3rd link I posted...

I like the WSJ, but I'm not sure that address what I speaking about. I'm speaking to more people paying premiums who were not paying premiums. We have a large number of uninsured people who will now be paying money to insurance companies. This has to increase revenue, making rate increase less neccessaary.

The tax seems to speak to something else I think.
 
I like the WSJ, but I'm not sure that address what I speaking about. I'm speaking to more people paying premiums who were not paying premiums. We have a large number of uninsured people who will now be paying money to insurance companies. This has to increase revenue, making rate increase less neccessaary.

The tax seems to speak to something else I think.

I think what you're forgetting is that a large portion of those new people 'paying premiums', will actually be getting government subsidies in order to do so. That means the rest of us will be paying more in order to cover them. The fact that the 'more' will be in my taxes, as opposed to directly in the cost on my health coverage, is immaterial to me. It's still more, and it's directly because of the new health laws.
 
I think what you're forgetting is that a large portion of those new people 'paying premiums', will actually be getting government subsidies in order to do so. That means the rest of us will be paying more in order to cover them. The fact that the 'more' will be in my taxes, as opposed to directly in the cost on my health coverage, is immaterial to me. It's still more, and it's directly because of the new health laws.

Yes, and that would effect government spending and not insurance company needs to increase premiums, right? Not saying the bill is perfect, but I doubt the insuirance companies need to raise premiums.
 
He should have been, and has been, working on both. He doesn't control the economy. Him sitting there watching it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. The work day proves enough time to tackle more than one thing.

He has done nothing. He is incompetent and has failed when it comes to unemployment and the economy. Growing the debt and government will not fix either.
 
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