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A turning point for American healthcare.

Not for much longer we won't. It will never take full affect.

Again, we'll see. But more is the pitty if we don't move forward. What we had was and is unsustainable, and republicans have no stomach to do the things that need to be done.
 
Again, we'll see. But more is the pitty if we don't move forward. What we had was and is unsustainable, and republicans have no stomach to do the things that need to be done.

Nobody has said the that current state of health care was perfect, just about everyone recognizes that the current health care system is in serious need of reform. However that doenst translate into having the Federal Government take it completely over.
 
Again, we'll see. But more is the pitty if we don't move forward. What we had was and is unsustainable, and republicans have no stomach to do the things that need to be done.

And yet the majority of Americans agree with the Republicans.
 
And yet the majority of Americans agree with the Republicans.

Do they? Odd that when asked about specifics in the bill, they actually like them. But, the fear mongering has been effective. Dishonest, but effective. We'll see what the future holds.
 
Nobody has said the that current state of health care was perfect, just about everyone recognizes that the current health care system is in serious need of reform. However that doenst translate into having the Federal Government take it completely over.

Well, they haven't take complete control. But, what we have without this first step is nothing. And republcians have had plenty of opportunity to act in the past and have not remotely even give good effort at any meaningful reform. There is nothing I know of that wwould indicate they ever would without democrats pushing them to have to address it.

Like I said, the fear mongering has been effective. The claim of the government having complete control is an example of the type of hyperbole too many have accepted, . . . wrongly.
 
Do they? Odd that when asked about specifics in the bill, they actually like them. But, the fear mongering has been effective. Dishonest, but effective. We'll see what the future holds.

Fear mongering or the dribble of information describing what is actually in the bill. When bills are rushed through Congress without even allowing them to read it, all kinds of surprises pop up. The rush to get the bill passed could be its undoing. If the state's attorney generals manage to get even one provision of the bill declared unconstitutional, the entire bill will be thrown out. The writers forgot to put a severability clause in it, something that is placed in every bill that comes before congress and is in every contract that individuals must sign.

Reality is about to smack this bill right in the face.
 
Fear mongering or the dribble of information describing what is actually in the bill. When bills are rushed through Congress without even allowing them to read it, all kinds of surprises pop up. The rush to get the bill passed could be its undoing. If the state's attorney generals manage to get even one provision of the bill declared unconstitutional, the entire bill will be thrown out. The writers forgot to put a severability clause in it, something that is placed in every bill that comes before congress and is in every contract that individuals must sign.

Reality is about to smack this bill right in the face.

No, misinformation is not equal to actual information. So, your first sentence is false.

As for the court ruling, we'll see. More than one lawyer has been wrong. So, I wouldn't go celebrating just yet. ;)
 
No, misinformation is not equal to actual information. So, your first sentence is false.

As for the court ruling, we'll see. More than one lawyer has been wrong. So, I wouldn't go celebrating just yet. ;)

You are correct... the dems failed to tell the public any "actual information" as to what is really in this bill and how it will affect their lives. They will regret that.

Many lawyers will have to be wrong since quite a few states have filed lawsuits against this pig.
 
You are correct... the dems failed to tell the public any "actual information" as to what is really in this bill and how it will affect their lives. They will regret that.

Many lawyers will have to be wrong since quite a few states have filed lawsuits against this pig.

You can play silly if you want, but when people started throwing out death panels and socialism, they left factual information. And those were largerly on your side of this debate. This is not to say both sides were commpletely honest. that is one of the problems with anything or leaders do. They know honest debate is risky, so they poison the effort with distortion. We should all be sad about that. But between us here, only you are arguing that the distortions should be accepted.

Oh, and a lot of lawyers say the bill will stand. Do a search and don't just look at conservative blogs and spin. ;)
 
You can play silly if you want, but when people started throwing out death panels and socialism, they left factual information. And those were largerly on your side of this debate. This is not to say both sides were commpletely honest. that is one of the problems with anything or leaders do. They know honest debate is risky, so they poison the effort with distortion. We should all be sad about that. But between us here, only you are arguing that the distortions should be accepted.

YouTube - Alan Grayson on the GOP Health Care Plan: "Don't Get Sick! And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!"'
YouTube - I Apologize To The DEAD! For Not Voting To End This Holocaust In America Sooner! Rep Grayson

Who's the one that started the lies on the Republican's healthcare proposal?
 
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You can play silly if you want, but when people started throwing out death panels and socialism, they left factual information. And those were largerly on your side of this debate. This is not to say both sides were commpletely honest. that is one of the problems with anything or leaders do. They know honest debate is risky, so they poison the effort with distortion. We should all be sad about that. But between us here, only you are arguing that the distortions should be accepted.

Oh, and a lot of lawyers say the bill will stand. Do a search and don't just look at conservative blogs and spin. ;)

There hasn't been any factual information given on health care reform to the general public. When they find out what is actually in it, all hell is going to break loose.
 
There hasn't been any factual information given on health care reform to the general public. When they find out what is actually in it, all hell is going to break loose.

If you were interested and willing to look and read, you can find a lot. And you don't need to read fear mongering misinformation either. But you do have to be willing to seek the information.
 
If you were interested and willing to look and read, you can find a lot. And you don't need to read fear mongering misinformation either. But you do have to be willing to seek the information.

Oh I know quite a bit about it, probably much more than you based on your posts. Unfortunately, the general public has not been given the facts and they are going to be extremely upset when they start learning about it.... especially after they see the bill for it.
 
Oh I know quite a bit about it, probably much more than you based on your posts. Unfortunately, the general public has not been given the facts and they are going to be extremely upset when they start learning about it.... especially after they see the bill for it.

I'm not convinced you do know much let alone more. But if you do, then you would have to agree it's out there. However, reading nonsense spin and misinformation doesn't really qualify, so I do doubt you. ;)
 
I'm not convinced you do know much let alone more. But if you do, then you would have to agree it's out there. However, reading nonsense spin and misinformation doesn't really qualify, so I do doubt you. ;)

Ahhh, and reading nonsense and spin from liberal groups and the administration makes you more informed ????

Ok, here's a simple question for you. How much will health care under this plan cost an average family of four making $40,000.???
 
Ahhh, and reading nonsense and spin from liberal groups and the administration makes you more informed ????

Ok, here's a simple question for you. How much will health care under this plan cost an average family of four making $40,000.???

No. I try to be more mainstream that that. But then again, I don't whine and call everything without that spin biased. ;) :neener
 
No. I try to be more mainstream that that. But then again, I don't whine and call everything without that spin biased. ;) :neener

Come on Mr. Informed... how about an answer.
 
Come on Mr. Informed... how about an answer.

Let me ask, cost in what respect? What policy do they currently have? What spin based site did you get your answer from?
 
Let me ask, cost in what respect? What policy do they currently have? What spin based site did you get your answer from?

Cost for the health insurance premium of course...:roll:

Doesn't matter what policy they have now or even if they have one. How much will a health insurance policy cost monthly or annually for the family of four making $40,000./year.

You act as if you know the health care reform bill, so this should be a snap for you. Or are you just bluster and spin ??
 
Cost for the health insurance premium of course...:roll:

Doesn't matter what policy they have now or even if they have one. How much will a health insurance policy cost monthly or annually for the family of four making $40,000./year.

You act as if you know the health care reform bill, so this should be a snap for you. Or are you just bluster and spin ??

That would depend on the insurance you have. My premium hasn't changed since before reform. Others have. But there is no set and certain cost for anyone in terms of premiums. To even suggest there is an answer to that question, as you pose it, shows a real lack of knowledge on your part. The government isn't unifying all the insuance policies into one cost for all income levels.

Thanks for convincing me that was right to doubt you. ;)
 
No offense, LA, but your working in the industry in no way discounts what I've said.
No offense taken. Likewise no offense but I will have to address your points here.

First bolded sentence: Just what are these "other options more geared toward their needs?" People with pre-existing conditions need HEALTH INSURANCE. There ARE no other options.
This is a huge misconception, while high risk companies are hard to find and usually quite expensive they exist and some are actually competitive when compared to the standard risk coverage models, one of the more comptetive I've seen is a product called Per4mance. The worst premium I saw was around 4 hundred a month, this is for the worst of health problems and not at all unreasonable considering. One disclaimer is that this was a year or two ago and their rates may have changed.

Second bolded portion: It's not common sense at all. It is common sense that young people with many other priorities for their money who are NOT covered by group plans are quite healthy and simply choose not to purchase insurance. It's common sense also that those not covered by group policies simply cannot AFFORD (or think they cannot afford) individual ones.
As was aptly put by another poster before this response. Those "young" "healthy" people will not be more inclined to buy in but rather will "just pay the fine" and then sign up when they get sick, I can tell you first hand that this magic group does not want health insurance outside of a benefits package and will use the money to further their lifestyles such as vehicles, electronics, etc. Those people that are supposed to skew the risk pool down don't participate en masse and won't. It was always a huge frustration for me in sales.

This is far from the most unhealthy period in American history.
News reports and CDC data suggest otherwise, this is the most sedentary population in US history, more fat people means more cardiovascular and renal issues, which happen to be insanely expensive. The BMI that has been an industry standard for years is nowhere near today's reality.
The problem we have is that technology has outstripped our ability to pay for it.
This is false. The problem is technology has been overused due to tort abuse and the ensuing CYA medical practices in the name of avoiding frivolous lawsuits.
So those that HAVE get. Those that don't have CAN'T.
Insurance and medical care are commodities, no matter the emotions based on it these are realities. I can't get a new car at the moment because I "don't have" the money for it and frankly it's my responsibility to step up, the same holds for my medical and other liabilities.
The insurance model hasn't changed much in a hundred years, I'd bet.
I wouldn't put money or pride on that bet if I were you.......no offense. The models have changed drastically just over the last 30 years alone. The late senator Ted Kennedy signed legislation in the '70s creating the HMO, Medicare supplementals have been booming since the '80s, in the '90s we had HIPAA laws that drastically altered underwriting and practices, the HSA is new since I started in the business around '04, and the once fantastic indemnity coverage that used to cover people well is grossly insufficient in lieu of the major medical policies have surfaced. Then there is Medicare advantage which is newer but about to be abandoned and Medicare N supplementals that only about 2 companies currently offer. The overall point here is that models are in a constant state of flux to meet needs.
Yet our lifespans are ever increasing and technology is ever advancing. We treat fatal illnesses with the same aggressiveness that we treat cureable ones, right up until we put these unfortunate souls in the ground. Capitalism at its finest.
The healthcare system in our country is not a great example of capitalism, it's actually a very restricted market regulated to the hilt. For example I have to have about 5 signed documents to sell a simple policy and for the more complicated ones it's a nightmare. Many of the restrictions are actually repetitive and of no demonstrable value. If people want to really solve healthcare it must be streamlined, trimmed, and only those regs that have a definite value should be kept.

A link? Link me to one of these companies that provides insurance for people who are insulin-dependent; those who have had a diagnosis of cancer at any time during their lives; those with HepC; transplants. If there are any, they are prohibitively expensive, meant only for the rich.
Per4mance for one. I can't provide the link as I lost that paperwork, otherwise I would have appointed with them. That was a huge DOH on my part.
 
That would depend on the insurance you have. My premium hasn't changed since before reform. Others have. But there is no set and certain cost for anyone in terms of premiums. To even suggest there is an answer to that question, as you pose it, shows a real lack of knowledge on your part. The government isn't unifying all the insuance policies into one cost for all income levels.

Thanks for convincing me that was right to doubt you. ;)

Of course your health insurance hasn't changed... most provisions of the health care reform won't start until 2014. :roll:

There are several options for coverage, but it has nothing to do with your current coverage unless you have health insurance provided by an employer. I'm talking about someone that does not have employer provided health insurance and must buy it on the exchange.

Of course they are not unifying the cost at all income levels... that's why I specified a family of four making $40,000. a year. :confused: Don't you ever read posts ???

You've cleared the situation up though. Despite your high-handed comments, you don't have a clue what is in the health care reform package, just like the majority of Americans. You, like they, are in for a nasty surprise.
 
Of course your health insurance hasn't changed... most provisions of the health care reform won't start until 2014. :roll:

There are several options for coverage, but it has nothing to do with your current coverage unless you have health insurance provided by an employer. I'm talking about someone that does not have employer provided health insurance and must buy it on the exchange.

Of course they are not unifying the cost at all income levels... that's why I specified a family of four making $40,000. a year. :confused: Don't you ever read posts ???

You've cleared the situation up though. Despite your high-handed comments, you don't have a clue what is in the health care reform package, just like the majority of Americans. You, like they, are in for a nasty surprise.

Different familys could end up with different cost depending on when and where and how much coverage they want (BTW, you misunderstood the comment about unifying income levels).

try loking at something a little more objective than you have been:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf
 
Different familys could end up with different cost depending on when and where and how much coverage they want (BTW, you misunderstood the comment about unifying income levels).

try loking at something a little more objective than you have been:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf

That's exactly the same site I go to for information on health care reform. Obviously, you need to look a little further on their site.
 
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