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CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N

Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Quote Leviticus all you want, but it is not Christians that are responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks, for the Madrid and London bombings, for the genocide in Darfur, and for the other nearly 16,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11. Further, it isn’t Christians that are refusing to assimilate and forming Muslim no-go zones ruled by Sharia all over Western Europe either.

Not to mention that thanks to the reformation, Christianity, which at one time consisted only of the Roman Catholic Church, now consist of over a hundred different competing Christian denominations. So what do you think you could accomplish by posting quotes from Leviticus? Not to mention that those quotes aren’t open-ended commands like the ones contained in the Koran, which obligate Muslims to wage offensive jihad against unbelievers to spread Islam.

By the way, care to point out exactly what is out of context with the following two verses of the Koran, as per the doctrine of abrogation, the later violent verses of the Koran issued when Muhammad was strong and powerful, abrogate the earlier peaceful versions of the Koran issued when Muhammad was feeble and weak. Indeed, the infamous verse of the sword below, by the way, alone abrogates some 124 peaceful verses of the Koran alone.

009.029 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

The Holy Quran - English Translation - Islam: The Eternal Path to Peace

Was it Muslims who bombed the building in Oklahoma City? Where it Muslims who committed all the bombings for the IRA. Muslims are not solely responsible for bad things happening, they are just a handy scapegoat.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Was it Muslims who bombed the building in Oklahoma City? Where it Muslims who committed all the bombings for the IRA. Muslims are not solely responsible for bad things happening, they are just a handy scapegoat.

No and no, but the ideology held by most terrorists is in fact Islam. No not all Muslims are violent, but I will say that the tenets of a all mainstream sects of Islam as they are today are in fact quite violent and oppressive.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

And he is free to do so. We have these odd ideas in this country about freedom. People are free to want, and even advocate, for whatever issue they choose.

Why do you keep answering a question no one asked? I've stated from the begining that he has the right to build this Mosque, but people are trying to paint this organization as that "peaceful tolerant Islam" when it's anything but. It's not us trying to paint all Muslims as extremist terrorists, it's the proponents trying to paint all Muslims as tolerant pro-western patriots even clear Islamists like the POS behind this Mosque.
 
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Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

Mama always said, "Want in one hand and **** in the other. See which one gets full first."

Dude can want all he wants. People in hell want ice-water. Sharia law in the US is laughable and absurd. They need to change fear tactics. This one ain't gonna fly.

Pfft, ya it's the pro-Mosque proponents who have been attempting to paint this Islamist POS as a kumbaya singing pro-western Patriot, and when we reply with the fact that he's anything but, we're called fear mongers. :roll: You people have some nerve I'll grant you that.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

Why do you keep answering a question no one asked? I've stated from the begining that he has the right to build this Mosque, but people are trying to paint this organization as that "peaceful tolerant Islam" when it's anything but. It's not us trying to paint all Muslims as extremist terrorists, it's the proponents trying to paint all Muslims as tolerant pro-western patriots even clear Islamists like the POS behind this Mosque.

I did not answer a question, I replied to an entirely irrelevant comment. His beliefs are irrelevant. He is free to have them.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Was it Muslims who bombed the building in Oklahoma City? Where it Muslims who committed all the bombings for the IRA. Muslims are not solely responsible for bad things happening, they are just a handy scapegoat.

Same tired argument used by islamist supporters and appeasers everywhere. OK City, IRA, abortion clinic bombings. Is that all you got Redress. As of today Islamic terrorist have carried out 15,855 deadly terror attacks since 9/11/2001. There is just no denying it. Muslims are responsible for most of the terrorist attacks that have taken place in the past 25 years by far.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

No and no, but the ideology held by most terrorists is in fact Islam. No not all Muslims are violent, but I will say that the tenets of a all mainstream sects of Islam as they are today are in fact quite violent and oppressive.

So, terrorists can be any religion, and most Muslims are not terrorists, but you still insist on linking them together for no rational reason.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

Is Islam the only religion that forbids freedom of religion?

There is no such thing as a Christian state, or a Hindu state, or a Buddhists state, as all faith-based religions separate church from the secular state. It is only in Islam where Sharia, which is an intrinsic part of Islam, orders every level of society per a very strict form of radical totalitarianism, as there is no separation of mosque and state as Islam is the state and the Koran is the constitution.

I mean look inside the Islamic world and see what you see? You will see no freedom and liberty as in the West, you will only see strict totalitarianism, as the only freedom that Sharia allows is the freedom for a Muslim to become a more devout slave of Allah.

Don't all religions seek to dominate the world?

Only Islam mandates offensive jihad for the spread of Islam until all religion belongs to Allah alone.

008.039 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

The Holy Quran - English Translation - Islam: The Eternal Path to Peace

Do the Ten Commandments represent liberty?

They represent Judeo/Christian values, which are good rules for all to live by.

Your argument is flawed in a lot of ways.

Really? Specifically in what way?

Perhaps you can give me reasonable evidence that Islam is the only religion that is guilty of these things.

Okay, in stark contrast to faith-based religions, Islam unique in the world is a religion of submission that forbids the freedom of conscience under the pain of death where all Muslims must submit to the will of Allah, i.e., Sharia, and Sharia institutionalizes systematic persecution and often violent oppression of females and non-Muslims and incorporates draconian punishments such as lashings, stonings, beheadings, and amputations, while forbidding freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and also mandating death for apostates. Furthermore, Sharia also commands all Muslims to wage offensive jihad in the cause of Allah for the spread of Islam via the imposition of Sharia.

Now to give you reasonable evidence, look inside every country in the Islamic world. Do you see freedom and liberty like exists throughout the Western world? No, you see only totalitarianism everywhere you look. What more reasonable proof do you need?

Furthermore, look what is happening throughout Western Europe where mass Muslim immigration has occurred, do you see Muslims assimilating and integrating like other immigrant groups? No, you see the majority of Muslim immigrants forming Muslim no-go zones ruled by Sharia and in direct contravention to the laws of the states in which they reside, as Muslims don’t immigrate to assimilate and integrate, instead they immigrate to dominate and subjugate.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Same tired argument used by islamist supporters and appeasers everywhere. OK City, IRA, abortion clinic bombings. Is that all you got Redress. As of today Islamic terrorist have carried out 15,855 deadly terror attacks since 9/11/2001. There is just no denying it. Muslims are responsible for most of the terrorist attacks that have taken place in the past 25 years by far.

I am a first amendment appeaser. Spin that however you want, it still will be just that, spin.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

And he is free to do so. We have these odd ideas in this country about freedom. People are free to want, and even advocate, for whatever issue they choose.


And we are free to criticize the living daylights out of him for wanting it.

Considering the number of people who are simply defending everything and anything about the bulding of this Mosque with absolutely no criticism of the actual views being promoted, I would say the problem here lies in the way they are supporting much more than the mere right for people with extreme views to erect a building. They are defending the extremists, themselves.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

I am a first amendment appeaser. Spin that however you want, it still will be just that, spin.

I support the first amendment as well. I agree the muslim brotherhood has a right to build this mosque. But I do not think they should. In fact Im willing to bet you a DP Platnum Membership that it is never built at the old Burlington Coat Factory at 45 Park Place in Manhatten NY City.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

And we are free to criticize the living daylights out of him for wanting it.

Considering the number of people who are simply defending everything and anything about the bulding of this Mosque with absolutely no criticism of the actual views being promoted, I would say the problem here lies in the way they are supporting much more than the mere right for people with extreme views to erect a building. They are defending the extremists, themselves.

You would have a point if the topic was "Is this guy a good guy". It's not, the topic is whether the mosque should be built, and what the guy's politics are is entirely irrelevant. He is free to have any views he wants, and still be able to build his Mosque.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

I support the first amendment as well. I agree the muslim brotherhood has a right to build this mosque. But I do not think they should. In fact Im willing to bet you a DP Platnum Membership that it is never built at the old Burlington Coat Factory at 45 Park Place in Manhatten NY City.

So I am a Islamic appeaser and supporter for supporting their rights, but you are not?
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

What does this have to do with anything I said?

You said the constitution protects their right to build mosques. I disagree.

We don't have Sharia law here and I doubt that we will. And again this has nothing to do with the fact that a mosque is going to be built in NYC.

Sure we do, the essence of Islam is Sharia, i.e., the will of Allah. Islam and Sharia go hand in hand and you can’t get one without the other, as Sharia is an intrinsic part of Islam. Hence, we have Sharia over here, you just are not aware of it. Do Muslim females cover their bodies? Yes, because it is mandated by Sharia. Can Muslims hit their wives? You bet. Is government owned AIG big into Sharia finance? Hell yes.

Look throughout Western Europe and Canada where Sharia courts have already been established. It is called creeping Sharia, which will become more and more pronounced and demanding as the population of Muslims continues to rise.

In addition, throughout Western Europe the majority of Muslim immigrants instead of assimilating and integrating have banded together to form Muslim no-go zones ruled by Sharia in direct contravention to the laws of the states in which they reside, and that phenomena is already beginning to happen over here in the USA. Indeed, we would be extremely foolish if we fooled ourselves into believing that we alone in the world are the only country that can successful assimilate and integrate Muslims. Of course, Muslims don’t immigrate to assimilate and integrate, instead they only immigrate to one day dominate and subjugate.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

You would have a point if the topic was "Is this guy a good guy". It's not, the topic is whether the mosque should be built, and what the guy's politics are is entirely irrelevant. He is free to have any views he wants, and still be able to build his Mosque.

That's funny. I started posting here in 2005, and I can't recall a single topic ever submitted that generated more than a few replies where everybody stuck to the topic. All discussions meander this way and that, and in this one, folks who are defending the building of the mosque are certainly doing a lot more than discussing just the legal right to build.


Just as the first amendment protects his right to his opinions, it protects mine in response to his. You seem a bit fuzzy on the concept that free speech works two ways, not one. I have every right to criticize his motives, criticize his agenda, criticize his honesty and criticize his point of view.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

Would you build a German consulate next to Auschwitz?


So, all Germans were Nazis? The Muslim faith is akin to being a Nazi? That's the stupidest comparison I've heard.

Would you build an LAPD Recruiting Station next to the place where Rodney King was beaten?

It was a freeway, so you'd probably build a CHP station... And you actually topped yourself. This one is even more stupid.



Would you build a memorial to the Oklahoma City Bomber next to the Murrah Building site?

Holy crap, you just went full-retard with this comparison. Since when are we erecting memorials to condemned men??

Think before you speak.



The Cordoba Initiative has been insensative and as such, have caved into their right-wing, Islamic base.

It is sad that Mr. Obama supports the Temple of Hate.

One hardly knows how to respond...

Would you try to launch the Space Shuttle from Area 51???
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

70% of Americans disagree with you on this James. Are you calling them all idiots?

Yes I am and do you know why I am calling them idiots? Its because of the fact the muslims building the mosque do not have **** to do with the trade towers collapse. It was terrorists who happened to be muslims that flew planes into the trade towers, it wasn't all muslims. If you got these people on video celebrating the trade tower attacks or solid evidence that it is the Taliban or al queada or some other terrorist group building the mosque then I could see getting pissed over them building the mosque near ground zero. However there is no evidence that they are building the mosque as a monument to terrorism. We do not get outraged every time a white man buys white sheets just because some a white supremest terrorist group wore white sheets. We do get outraged any time Catholics build a catholic church near a daycare,elementary school or some other place with children in it just because some catholic priests molested some kids.

You are becoming quite the elitist.

Why because I choose not to cave into political correctness and blame all muslims for 9-11?


About the same percentage of Arizonians agree with thier states new immigration law.There is an elitist activist judge that disagrees with them. I find it extremely disapointing that you now view yourself as superior to allmost 3/4 of your fellow countrymen.
Arizona is not the same thing. The SB 1070 basically mirrors federal law and helps local authorities do the job the feds refuse to do. It doesn't have anything to do with trying to pin a terrorist attack on a whole religion. and I seriously doubt that those 3/4 of Americans who support sb1070 are the exact same people who oppose the mosque.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Was it Muslims who bombed the building in Oklahoma City?

Oklahoma was an isolated event and didn’t have anything to do with Islam or religion for that matter.

Where it Muslims who committed all the bombings for the IRA.

That was a 500 year conflict that finally ended after the IRA were finally defeated by the British. Additionally, it was confined to the UK.

Muslims are not solely responsible for bad things happening, they are just a handy scapegoat.

Really, none of those things you referenced are even remotely related or even similar to the global jihad, as although the global jihad has waxed and waned as Islamic civilization has waxed and waned through the centuries, it has been ongoing nonetheless perpetually for the past almost 1400 years non stop, and will continue permanently until either the world is subsumed by Dar al Islam or otherwise until Dar al Islam is rendered too weak to wage jihad.

You obviously must have skipped history altogether and forgotten about paying attention to current affairs for the past 30 years. Oh well.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

You said the constitution protects their right to build mosques. I disagree.

Why do you disagree? What in the constitution says that they aren't allowed to build this mosque. After all we do have freedom of religion.

Sure we do, the essence of Islam is Sharia, i.e., the will of Allah. Islam and Sharia go hand in hand and you can’t get one without the other, as Sharia is an intrinsic part of Islam. Hence, we have Sharia over here, you just are not aware of it. Do Muslim females cover their bodies? Yes, because it is mandated by Sharia. Can Muslims hit their wives? You bet. Is government owned AIG big into Sharia finance? Hell yes.

Look throughout Western Europe and Canada where Sharia courts have already been established. It is called creeping Sharia, which will become more and more pronounced and demanding as the population of Muslims continues to rise.

In addition, throughout Western Europe the majority of Muslim immigrants instead of assimilating and integrating have banded together to form Muslim no-go zones ruled by Sharia in direct contravention to the laws of the states in which they reside, and that phenomena is already beginning to happen over here in the USA. Indeed, we would be extremely foolish if we fooled ourselves into believing that we alone in the world are the only country that can successful assimilate and integrate Muslims. Of course, Muslims don’t immigrate to assimilate and integrate, instead they only immigrate to one day dominate and subjugate.

OK you keep on thinking that Sharia law will work in the U.S. It goes against our constitution, plus it seems we as a nation have such a fear of Islam that it will never happen.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

So, terrorists can be any religion, and most Muslims are not terrorists, but you still insist on linking them together for no rational reason.

Or terrorists can be secular as well. Terrorists are politically motivated extremists and target innocent civilians. However, in contrast to terrorists, Jihadists, on the other hand, in reality are devout Muslims who emulate the prophet Muhammad because he is the Sunnah, the supreme example and the perfect model for emulation. However, the problem with emulating Muhammad is that he was also a very vicious murderer, rapists, and pedophile among other things, most of them not good.

Nevertheless, jihadists can wage jihad using non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means and also violent means. However, when they wage jihad via violent means they emulate the prophet and there weren’t any limits to Muhammad’s brutality and viciousness.

In any event, most devout Muslims, while they are not terrorists, are jihadists, as by far more jihad takes place in the world via non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means that for the most part takes place behind the scenes than takes place through violent means. For instance, jihad can be as simple as giving zakat, or it can involve immigrating to the West for the purpose of demographic conquest. There are literally thousands of different non-violent means of jihad that can be employed, and most of them like I said take place via non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means behind the scenes. However, some of it also takes place by violent means as well, in stark contrast to terrorism, which always only takes place through violent means targeting innocents.

In addition, jihad is always and only motivated by the mandate for Muslims to wage jihad for the spread of Islam via the imposition of Sharia.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

Why do you disagree? What in the constitution says that they aren't allowed to build this mosque. After all we do have freedom of religion.



As I previously explained, go back and read my post, Islam is not a religion alone as it is also a very radical form of totalitarianism that seeks to dominate the world as its main goal. Hence, when you take Islam in totality for what it really is, a totalitarian theo-political ideology that seeks world domination via the imposition of Sharia, then it is clear that Islam is not protected under the free exercise clause of the first amendment of the constitution, as I’m sorry but the constitution isn’t a suicide pact.

OK you keep on thinking that Sharia law will work in the U.S. It goes against our constitution, plus it seems we as a nation have such a fear of Islam that it will never happen.

Really, where did I “think” that (as if you can read my mind) or in any way insinuate that nonsense? Are you hallucinating?
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Or terrorists can be secular as well. Terrorists are politically motivated extremists and target innocent civilians. However, in contrast to terrorists, Jihadists, on the other hand, in reality are devout Muslims who emulate the prophet Muhammad because he is the Sunnah, the supreme example and the perfect model for emulation. However, the problem with emulating Muhammad is that he was also a very vicious murderer, rapists, and pedophile among other things, most of them not good.

Nevertheless, jihadists can wage jihad using non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means and also violent means. However, when they wage jihad via violent means they emulate the prophet and there weren’t any limits to Muhammad’s brutality and viciousness.

In any event, most devout Muslims, while they are not terrorists, are jihadists, as by far more jihad takes place in the world via non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means that for the most part takes place behind the scenes than takes place through violent means. For instance, jihad can be as simple as giving zakat, or it can involve immigrating to the West for the purpose of demographic conquest. There are literally thousands of different non-violent means of jihad that can be employed, and most of them like I said take place via non-violent, stealth, and deceptive means behind the scenes. However, some of it also takes place by violent means as well, in stark contrast to terrorism, which always only takes place through violent means targeting innocents.

In addition, jihad is always and only motivated by the mandate for Muslims to wage jihad for the spread of Islam via the imposition of Sharia.

You can document the bolded part?
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

Far-rigties: Write this down on a piece of paper and tape it to your bathroom mirror.

we don't want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith
--Ted Olson
former Solicitor General under W. His wife died on AA flt. 77 (9/11 Pentagon)

I think that he deserves the last word on this.
 
Re: CNSNews.com Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet Wit

I got into a discussion about this on FB and I'd like to just post what I said..I just basically let what I was feeling all out.

Also I'd like to add, their seems to be some very valid reasons as to why many middle eastern Muslims dislike America. We treat them like complete ****, the only reason we even stick our nose in their business is because they are sitting on... a plethora of oil. Despite what people will say the 9/11 attacks were not carried out in the name of Islam but as an act of revenge of U.S. involvement in Lebanon in the 80's (from Osama himself). Also placing sanctions in Iraq which leads to the death of over half a million children and going to war with the wrong country isn't going to win you any praise either. Then when your president's adviser comes out and says the deaths were "Worth it", well that's only icing on the cake isn't it? People wonder why they hate us so much over there but it is fairly obvious why they do. We have been treating them like dirt and killing men, women, and children over there for a very long time.

I'm in no way trying to defend 9/11 but I'd like people to realize their is another side to the story. Their hate for us is justified to a certain extent. They like their way of life the way it is and don't want us to interfere so why not just leave them alone! I'm just sick of hearing all this mosque stuff. There is already another mosque two blocks away from the ground zero and one in the pentagon. This is just a manufactured controversy by the right to gain support. I give them credit though, it's a good controversy because your typical American isn't smart enough to see through the bull ****.
 
Re: Ground Zero Mosque Group Says It Has No Plan to Move Site or Meet With N.Y. Gover

That was exactly what I thought when I read his post.

Well, as I've said before, great minds think alike. :coffeepap
 
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