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Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

And the prayer before games argument would only be applicable if there was a muslim prayer before the games and/or practices.

Also, we had midnight practices of this nature when I played, but not because of religious holidays.
 
Well, they would miss practice because of their faith. It's safe to assume that if these students were not muslim, that they wouldn't miss practice. You can't have these kids practice during the day, unless you want dead high school football player headlines in the news. The school is making the best out of a complicated situation.

And what about non-Muslim players who would like to have a normal life outside of football during August and are forced to sleep all day because they have to be owls at night due to the Muslims on the team?
 
Think about it...

Why do schools either give the week before Easter or the week after Easter off? Spring break? It's all about the bunny.

1. It isn't about the bunny, it is about Christ. 2. Not all schools do this, in fact, many do not. I can't answer for your school district or state. I even had to take a personal day when I taught in Georgia to take off Good Friday because I was fasting...

Christmas (one day) is indeed a National Holiday... which schools observe with a two-week break. And most people still call that -- CHRISTMAS VACATION.

Relevance. It is a national holiday that is now celebrated by most, Christians and non-Christians alike, in one form or another. It isn't even the most important Christian holiday.

The point you seem to have missed is schools all over the country observe Christian holidays -- or schedule their semesters around the Christian tradition.

Relevance? We are talking about moving practice simply because of the religion practiced by some of the players on the team. If it were any other religion (especially Christianity) it wouldn't be allowed OR there would be a challence from the ACLU or other similarly liberal legal organization.

Adjusting 2-a-day FB practices so that all the team participants can make practice is hardly the big deal Vicchio and his far-right sources are trying to make it out to be.

To the overnight hours? Rediculous...
 
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There's no school on satrudays, but we practiced on Saturdays when I played high school football.

There's no school in the summer, but we practiced in teh summer when I played high school football.

We didn't. We did have occasional track meets on Saturdays, but never practice...
 
And what about non-Muslim players who would like to have a normal life outside of football during August and are forced to sleep all day because they have to be owls at night due to the Muslims on the team?

Make practice optional for those players? It's not an easy situation, but it's better than not having practice, or cutting all the Muslim players.
 
And what about non-Muslim players who would like to have a normal life outside of football during August and are forced to sleep all day because they have to be owls at night due to the Muslims on the team?

It sounds like they went with what worked best for most players.

I'd bet that if you told the non-Muslim kids that they could choose between having practices at night with their full team or practices during the day on their team of 15 people, they would have chosen the nighttime practices.
 
Make practice optional for those players? It's not an easy situation, but it's better than not having practice, or cutting all the Muslim players.

You don't make August practices optional. You would not be ready for the season that starts in September if you did. I think I already pointed that out...
 
You don't make August practices optional. You would not be ready for the season that starts in September if you did. I think I already pointed that out...

Then you practice at night. There isn't alot of options here.
 
It sounds like they went with what worked best for most players.

I'd bet that if you told the non-Muslim kids that they could choose between having practices at night with their full team or practices during the day on their team of 15 people, they would have chosen the nighttime practices.

Since when did high school football teams become democratic?
 
From 11pm to 4 am? absurd...

Apparently not for this school. It was the only way for the majority of the team to be able to practice safely.
 
Since when did high school football teams become democratic?

Who said they're democratic? The coach gets to decide when practices are held. He chose to do it at these times, presumably because it worked out best for everyone involved.

I just don't understand why anyone who is not involved would object to this - if it works for the team, who cares?
 
The safety and the well being of the school kids is pertinent here.

This is not a religion based thing, this is a time based thing.

The MAJORITY of the team, if the practices were done at a "normal time", would either have to:

1. Be physically put at risk of severe health issues including death
2. Quit the squad so as not to violate their religious tennets
3. Skip the practices but stay on the team, thus punishing the entire team with lack of training camp practice
4. Violate their religious beliefs and practice

There's no winning scenario in there for the students, both the muslims nor the non-muslims, on that team. You force the issue and you either have health issues, no football team, or a bunch of teenagers that feel they are forced to violate their religious beliefs.

If the entire team was fine with changing practices rather than having the potential for players to die, or having the potential to have no football for the entire year, I have no problem for it. I see the religious thing as an explanation, not a reason. The reason the practice is moved is so that everyone can practice safetly. The explanation as to why that's the case is that many of them are muslim and thus would have to either quit or subject themselves to extremely hazardous situatiosn (which would be illegal for the school to allow them to do anyways) if they practiced at normal times.

In this case I think we need to step out of the politics, step out of the need to be "right" and crusade against "double standards" because christians can't pray at a game, and actuall think of what the real role of schools generally should be and what's best for the kids.

Putting them in a situation where there are severe health concerns is not best.
Canceling football all together for everyone because you can't field a team is not best.
Basically tanking the season by not having preseason camp is not best.
Forcing kids to have to violate their religious beliefs to "not let the team down" is not the best.

The best option for the well being of the kids, ALL the kids on the team, would be to have the practice at a time that everyone could attend safetly.

To me, this just isn't really a religious issue and would be easy to argue against it if someone tried to use it as precedence for one. If 3/4ths of the team worked at a particular summer job whose hour was during practice and the option was either move practice, cancel football season cause we can't do preseason practice, or force 3/4ths of the team to quit their job I'd say the same thing as I am here.
 
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I believe they got agreement from everyone before proceeding.
 
Actually a night-time practice due to daytime heat is a logical choice.

But to change the practice because of Ramadan: absolutely not.

We live in a pluralistic society (so says the ACLU); absolute Islamists must abide by our "pluralistic" society with *no* handouts, favors or time off.
 
Actually a night-time practice due to daytime heat is a logical choice.

But to change the practice because of Ramadan: absolutely not.

We live in a pluralistic society (so says the ACLU); absolute Islamists must abide by our "pluralistic" society with *no* handouts, favors or time off.

No one was FORCED to agree to this, I think its admirable to the other players who agreed to this.

I'd have done it for my soccer teammates.
 
Further more, all it will take is one player to file a lawsuit, claiming he felt intimidated into agreeing to these late night practices for Islam...

Why would someone be that big of a dick?
 
For religious reasons. What about the kids that aren't Muslim? Why should they be forced to do this? Do they not matter?

Because there's no I in team
 
Actually a night-time practice due to daytime heat is a logical choice.

But to change the practice because of Ramadan: absolutely not.

We live in a pluralistic society (so says the ACLU); absolute Islamists must abide by our "pluralistic" society with *no* handouts, favors or time off.

And furthermore, who is paying for the lights? The lights have to be on for the five hours of practice for which they would not normally be on were the practices held during the daytime. Running those lights is not cheap by any means. If the taxpayers are footing the bill for the lights to be on during these Ramadan practices, that is absolutely wrong.
 
Well, perhaps because he was forced to practice on Good Friday or otherwise during the Paschal Triduum during the baseball season without any considering for his religious beliefs?

Last time I checked those religious beliefs didn't put him in any danger if he practiced that day.

Thats the whole point. You can't put kids in danger.
 
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