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GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Thank you. Now you all are making my point for me. Tax cuts - unless they're extremely dramatic don't do anything.

Sure, you get a little more take-home pay (and I know people don't admit it, but most of them are taking home even more under Obama - at least those under $250,000 got a little stimulus in their checks) - but it doesn't have an impact on the overall economy.

Weren't we told that the Bush tax cuts would create jobs and grow the economy? They didn't.

If your argument is merely, it's a good thing for people to have more take-home pay and that's the end of it, then I'm okay with that argument.

But there is no proof that it has an impact on the economy at large - so these people saying that they're going to either fix or destroy the economy if we let them lapse on the top earning bracket really don't have an argument.

As has been pointed out, the top brackets don't need more money to spend money. They already make more than they spend, so I don't see how letting the top rate rise a little bit is going to destroy the economy.

It's going to be a necessary part of ending the deficit - combined with cuts in spending in all areas - including everyone's sacred cow, the Department of Defense.

Conservatives in Britain understand this.

I find it fallacious to only tax the rich more, as if they are being punished for something.

The middle class needs to start paying their share.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Let me get this straight:

Sure, you get a little more take-home pay (and I know people don't admit it, but most of them are taking home even more under Obama - at least those under $250,000 got a little stimulus in their checks)

Obama's rationale for including that "little stimulus" (i.e. tax cut) in people's checks was that it would help the economy.

"We put $300 billion worth of tax cuts into people's pockets so that there was demand and businesses had customers."

Are you saying that he's a liar?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

All this is true; but do you want to return control to the party who caused the mess?

You're like the abused wife who goes back to the abuser because the shelter wasn't very pretty.

Reagan had a mess to fix too, and unemployment went up when he started. It was 7.4% when he started (in February '81 - I give them the last few weeks of January). In August of '82 (Obama's equivalent), the unemployment rate under Reagan was 9.8%. Under Reagan, it would continue to go up to 10.8% before it would begin its downward trend. And it was not until November of 1987 that he got it under 6%. U.S. Unemployment Rate: SA, Percent

Reagan also saw a HUGE increase in the deficits during his tenure. National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Back then, were you as angry about growing unemployment and increasing deficit spending?

I'm just saying. If you were angry at Reagan because of those things, then you can be upset at Obama, too.

They were each dealt a crappy economy and they each did things to try to fix them, and in both cases, fixing it took longer than they thought. They're not the same and I'm not claiming it, but the similarities of their early terms are striking.

I, personally, didn't expect things would turn pretty right away. I think any American who did (party aside) is pretty delusional. How do you recover from the worst decade since the Great Depression?

As Reagan said there you go again, distorting history. Reagan got his tax cuts passed 6 months after getting into office and was fighting 17% home mortgage rates and double digit inflation. His policies were to give money to the American people and let them pay down their debt, refinance their homes, and grow consumer spending. His policy was a pro growth policy vs a pro govt. program of Obama. this really is getting ridiculous as you keep giving talking points and posting charts that don't take into account interest rates and inflation. Who is fillling your heald with this garbage?

Do you realize that Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt in 8 years and Obama has added 3 trillion in two with projected deficits of trillion dollars a year into the future? How is that good for America? Your outrage over the Republican Party is justified but Obama was part of the Congress that voted for that spending and in fact Democrats were in control of the purse strings 2007-08 and what did they do? Now they have put Bush spending on steroids.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Film, what exactly is wrong with you? Why are you so against keeping more of your money and please, please tell me how income tax revenue WENT UP after the tax cuts according to the checkbook of the United States? I just don't get it, ranting against keeping more of what you earn, you do realize it is your money first, right? How can anything that grows revenue cause a deficit? It is the spending, not the tax cuts!!!!

“It is the spending, not the tax cuts”? :shock: Cutting taxes, with no offsets, with two wars going on, is something the only the mad hatter would think of as logic.
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

It is proof that tax cuts don't necessarily lead to job creation. Just as the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts did little to create job growth and DEFINITELY didn't lead to income growth for most Americans (as I've already pointed out several times and backed with many sources). JobWatch Indeed, nearly all private job growth between 2001 and 2005 was in the defense industries (according to the source, personally, I would like to investigate this further), which means it was government spending that was creating jobs and not the tax cuts.

Tax cuts are not a magical band-aids that cure all ills.

Film, the tax cuts in 2001 were exactly like the Obama tax cuts and did the same thing, nothiing, they were rebates. In 2003 they were rate cuts. Do you understand the difference? Again, I ask you why are you so anti keeping more of what you earn. It seems to me that maybe you don't work, don't pay taxes thus have no point of reference?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

“It is the spending, not the tax cuts”? :shock: Cutting taxes, with no offsets, with two wars going on, is something the only the mad hatter would think of as logic.

Cutting taxes grew govt. revenue, only a liberal believes that human behavior won't change if taxes go up. How is NY doing with their Millionaires tax? Tell me why you have a problem keeping more of your money and why tax rate cuts have always grown revenue? How can that happen?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Let me get this straight:



Obama's rationale for including that "little stimulus" (i.e. tax cut) in people's checks was that it would help the economy.

"We put $300 billion worth of tax cuts into people's pockets so that there was demand and businesses had customers."

Are you saying that he's a liar?

Here is the deal on the Obama tax cut, too many strings attached and too little benefit to taxpayers.

Tax cuts
Total: $288 billion
[edit] Tax cuts for individuals
Total: $237 billion
• $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
• $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
• $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
• $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
• $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
• $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
• $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
• $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $ 1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
• $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Tell me why you have a problem keeping more of your money and why tax rate cuts have always grown revenue? How can that happen?


Some people when they find that the country is in the worst financial crisis since the great depression want to find a way out, others are content just saying NO. It’s much like when some volunteer for the military, others stand in the rear with the gear and wave a flag. :2wave:
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Some people when they find that the country is in the worst financial crisis since the great depression want to find a way out, others are content just saying NO. It’s much like when some volunteer for the military, others stand in the rear with the gear and wave a flag. :2wave:

So your answer is to take money away from the taxpayer and give it to the govt. so they can bailout out state responsibility issues? Amazing that the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars at the federal level is ignored but don't let a private company do anything wrong. Do you realize how foolish you sound?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So your answer is to take money away from the taxpayer and give it to the govt. so they can bailout out state responsibility issues? Amazing that the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars at the federal level is ignored but don't let a private company do anything wrong. Do you realize how foolish you sound?
another day, more insults....nice to know somethings never change
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So your answer is to take money away from the taxpayer and give it to the govt. so they can bailout out state responsibility issues?

Lets get into the first part of your post and put the strawman aside for now. Would you agree if …what you refer to as the “tax increases” were used only for lowering the debt would you climb aboard? :confused:
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

another day, more insults....nice to know somethings never change

They sure don't change, you show up and offer nothing but one sentence responses with zero substance. Asking a liberal the tough questions is always considered a personal attack. Interesting how they never answer any question. Have a good day!
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

They sure don't change, you show up and offer nothing but one sentence responses with zero substance. Asking a liberal the tough questions is always considered a personal attack. Interesting how they never answer any question. Have a good day!
like i told you in another thread, when i see you doing this, i will pop in to yell 'bull####'....get used to it...don't like me doing that? grow up and have an adult conversation with folks...i've explained this to you before.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

like i told you in another thread, when i see you doing this, i will pop in to yell 'bull####'....get used to it...don't like me doing that? grow up and have an adult conversation with folks...i've explained this to you before.

Rather than "popping in to yell 'bull****,'" why not participate in the thread and explain why you think he's wrong on the merits?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

like i told you in another thread, when i see you doing this, i will pop in to yell 'bull####'....get used to it...don't like me doing that? grow up and have an adult conversation with folks...i've explained this to you before.

I welcome you setting me straight by giving me the sites that you find credible that refute what I have been posting. I would love to learn something from you and other liberals.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Lets get into the first part of your post and put the strawman aside for now. Would you agree if …what you refer to as the “tax increases” were used only for lowering the debt you would climb aboard? :confused:

No, because I understand even your human behavior. You are not going to have more spendable income with higher taxes and it is spendable income that makes our economic engine go. How does having less in your take home pay going to affect your behavior? Why is that so hard to admit?

Today we have 16 million unemployed Americans and thus paying minimum taxes, think raising taxes is going to put them back to work?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Let me get this straight:



Obama's rationale for including that "little stimulus" (i.e. tax cut) in people's checks was that it would help the economy.

"We put $300 billion worth of tax cuts into people's pockets so that there was demand and businesses had customers."

Are you saying that he's a liar?

No more so than any other politician who says that tax cuts will change the economy. Please note, in an earlier post, though - I did say that they can have short-term stimulus effects. They just don't alter the economic landscape significantly over time.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

No more so than any other politician who says that tax cuts will change the economy. Please note, in an earlier post, though - I did say that they can have short-term stimulus effects. They just don't alter the economic landscape significantly over time.


They would if the govt. would quit spending money on social engineering programs. If you got to keep more of what you earned wouldn't you need less of that so called "govt. help? Instead govt. keeps growing and growing and thus "needing" more revenue. When are you going to put the brakes on that 3.8 trillion dollar Obama budget excluding stimulus and healthcare?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I welcome you setting me straight by giving me the sites that you find credible that refute what I have been posting. I would love to learn something from you and other liberals.
you have no interest in debate, you have made that plain to see, and i , and it seems several others, have decided not to waste our time on you....i would also encourage others to just put you on 'ignore', as to try and have a conversation with you is a giant waste of bandwidth.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

No, because I understand even your human behavior. You are not going to have more spendable income with higher taxes and it is spendable income that makes our economic engine go. How does having less in your take home pay going to affect your behavior? Why is that so hard to admit?

Then why not dedicate… say… half of the so-called tax increase to reducing the debt and the other half to stimulus that makes our “economic engine go”?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

No more so than any other politician who says that tax cuts will change the economy.

So you're saying he's just as much of a liar as Reagan or Bush on that issue?

Please note, in an earlier post, though - I did say that they can have short-term stimulus effects. They just don't alter the economic landscape significantly over time.

A short-term stimulus can't alter the economic landscape significantly? I feel like I've been hearing the exact opposite for the past year+.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Then why not dedicate… say… half of the so-called tax increase to reducing the debt and the other half to stimulus that makes our “economic engine go”?

Because tax increases do not provide increases in revenue and will do nothing to employ 16 million unemployed Americans
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Rather than "popping in to yell 'bull****,'" why not participate in the thread and explain why you think he's wrong on the merits?
check your inbox
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Personally, I think an extension of the tax cuts would be the best move right now with the condition of the economy. However, if you want to compromise with those more concerned with the deficit, letting the taxes sunset on only the wealthy would probobly be the best IMO.

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Macroadvisers: The impact of sunset of tax cuts on GDP, employment, inflation & interest rates
 
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