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Teachers unions cash in at expense of food stamp recipients

Teachers, fireman and police don't feel the effects of reality? Seriously?

Not the broad economic reality the rest of us have to face.
I've had to deal with shorter work hours with reductions in pay and no guaranteed golden parachute retirement.

Yea, they are out of the mainstream when it comes to compensation.
 
Not the broad economic reality the rest of us have to face.
I've had to deal with shorter work hours with reductions in pay and no guaranteed golden parachute retirement.

Yea, they are out of the mainstream when it comes to compensation.

so, you were too unqualified for one of those high-paying teacher, fireman or police positions?!
 
the 'misery loves company' reply of the envious
so, having insufficient teachers to educate the next generation in a globally competitive environment is ok with you

Envious, nah.
Resentful you bet, the inferior education that is provided isn't worth what it costs.

Don't worry, we're already on a path to lose our educational competitiveness as it is.

as is not having enough firemen on call to respond to those emergencies
and since no one worries about crime during an economic downturn, in your estimation, eliminating a sizable portion of the police force is an excellent idea
ready - post - think ... not the correct order to express oneself and still be found credible

No, I'm realistic.
When people borrow money in my name to save bloated employment sectors.
I call foul.
Save your fear mongering.
 
If your pension lost a lot of money i nthe market slide, you are not on a public pension. Public pensions are guaranteed regardless of investment performance.

It is a public pension. I work for a state school and this is the state pension fund. We pay into and the State matches funds. It is invested in the market (someone thought that was a good idea). The fund is not doing well:

In 2008, IPERS showed a portfolio worth $22 billion. Today the portfolio value hovers around $18 billion.

Iowa House Republicans » IPERS Net Worth Down 18 Percent

GENERAL INFORMATION

1. IPERS Trust Fund lost about $4.4 billion last year.

2. IPERS experienced a negative net return of about -16.27% during FY 2009.

School Administrators of Iowa - IPERS
 
Envious, nah.
Resentful you bet, the inferior education that is provided isn't worth what it costs.

Don't worry, we're already on a path to lose our educational competitiveness as it is.



No, I'm realistic.
When people borrow money in my name to save bloated employment sectors.
I call foul.
Save your fear mongering.

ok, so you would prefer that the public sector not involve itself in public policing, fire emergencies or education
that in no way is a position which could be termed "realistic"
 
ok, so you would prefer that the public sector not involve itself in public policing, fire emergencies or education
that in no way is a position which could be termed "realistic"

I didn't say that at all, don't put words into my mouth.
I said bloated, we either pay them to much or there are to many on the dole.
I think it's the former instead of the later.
Pay cuts would be fine with me.
 
Not the broad economic reality the rest of us have to face.
I've had to deal with shorter work hours with reductions in pay and no guaranteed golden parachute retirement.

Yea, they are out of the mainstream when it comes to compensation.

Really. I have larger classrooms. I have to teach more students at less pay, overage is being cut. We lost 26 instructors last year and our football team. What exactly are we not feeling?
 
Really. I have larger classrooms. I have to teach more students at less pay, overage is being cut. We lost 26 instructors last year and our football team. What exactly are we not feeling?

That's good, it should be that way.
I don't think the feds need to step in to bail any of you out.
Same goes for the any other employment sector.
 
I didn't say that at all, don't put words into my mouth.
I said bloated, we either pay them to much or there are to many on the dole.
I think it's the former instead of the later.
Pay cuts would be fine with me.

you resent the federal government's intervention to staff adequate police, firemen and teachers to perform their jobs
but you now insist you are OK with the public sector being responsible for fire, policing and education
notice how you seem not to have a clue what you are arguing about
it must be concluded that you are offering us a first hand perspective regarding the inadequacies of a public education
 
you resent the federal government's intervention to staff adequate police, firemen and teachers to perform their jobs

Yep, they shouldn't be involved.

but you now insist you are OK with the public sector being responsible for fire, policing and education

I didn't say it was wrong before.
There you go making things up.

notice how you seem not to have a clue what you are arguing about
it must be concluded that you are offering us a first hand perspective regarding the inadequacies of a public education

I don't know man, it seems that you have a reading comprehension problem or your being intentionally dishonest.

I see, that lately, you've been trying to approach topics from an intellectual perspective.
You're going to have to beef it up a bit.
 
That's good, it should be that way.
I don't think the feds need to step in to bail any of you out.
Same goes for the any other employment sector.

I haven't asked them to, but remember, this effects the education your children receive. No way around it. Larger classrooms, less one on one time, less hands on, more multiple choice tests and less critical thinking. It all has consequneces.
 
I haven't asked them to, but remember, this effects the education your children receive. No way around it. Larger classrooms, less one on one time, less hands on, more multiple choice tests and less critical thinking. It all has consequneces.

Not my children, I don't dump my kids off at the government baby sitting service.
 
It is a public pension. I work for a state school and this is the state pension fund. We pay into and the State matches funds. It is invested in the market (someone thought that was a good idea). The fund is not doing well:

In 2008, IPERS showed a portfolio worth $22 billion. Today the portfolio value hovers around $18 billion.

Iowa House Republicans » IPERS Net Worth Down 18 Percent

GENERAL INFORMATION

1. IPERS Trust Fund lost about $4.4 billion last year.

2. IPERS experienced a negative net return of about -16.27% during FY 2009.

School Administrators of Iowa - IPERS

Compared to other states, your pension fund isn't doing too badly. Public pension funds across the nation are allll bleeding red ink. Actually, I must admit that it looks as though your state's got it a whole lot more right than Illinois. I plugged in $73K and $45K/annual and that you were retiring September 1st, single not married -- pension benefit around $1900/month. This is a far cry from Illinois pensions for teachers. In yours and my case, I think we're talking apples and oranges.
 
I don't baby sit. But the effects are real all the same.

That may not be your intent and I'm not scolding you on this issue but a vast majority of parents consider it as such.
I haven't been completely fair in heaping all the criticism on teachers, for the poor results that exist.
A lot of it is parents, I will concede that point.
 
Compared to other states, your pension fund isn't doing too badly. Public pension funds across the nation are allll bleeding red ink. Actually, I must admit that it looks as though your state's got it a whole lot more right than Illinois. I plugged in $73K and $45K/annual and that you were retiring September 1st, single not married -- pension benefit around $1900/month. This is a far cry from Illinois pensions for teachers. In yours and my case, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Well, nationally is what we need to look at. But I think you're doing that even in your state. It seems to me you're looking at the minority and not the majority.
 
That may not be your intent and I'm not scolding you on this issue but a vast majority of parents consider it as such.
I haven't been completely fair in heaping all the criticism on teachers, for the poor results that exist.
A lot of it is parents, I will concede that point.

They may. Especially k-12. But many teachers fight that.
 
They may. Especially k-12. But many teachers fight that.

Of course, I know you'd rather have parents attend parent-teacher conferences.
To have them involved.

You may think I'm trying to be a dick but states have to get their budgets in order.
Some people have to be laid off, it sucks but that is the way things have to work sometimes.

I don't think the feds should do this, it sets a bad example and lets states get away with imprudent fiscal policy.
 
Well, nationally is what we need to look at. But I think you're doing that even in your state. It seems to me you're looking at the minority and not the majority.

We are doing it in Illinois, but not enough. We have a two-tiered system -- those hired after a certain date don't get the same bennies as those hired before the date. It's possible. Perhaps when I discuss this I should clarify that I'm talking about Illinois. Or else do some more homework before I apply it across the board. Certainly Iowa looks reasonable. Are they the exception? Don't know.
 
Yep, they shouldn't be involved.
ok, you are saying the federal government should not provide assistance to the states to ensure we have adequate fire and police protection and public schooling
bubba's post but you now insist you are OK with the public sector being responsible for fire, policing and education
I didn't say it was wrong before.
There you go making things up.
but notice how your answers fail to reconcile ... like someone who speaks out of both sides of their mouth
on one hand, you express your opposition to the federal assistance to enable fire and police protection and public education to be made adequate for our citizens, while you simultaneously say you are for the fire/police protection and public education being provided
it is anticipated that you will lay the responsibility for this upon the ineffective teaching of math skills while you were in school - but your responses do not add up
I don't know man, it seems that you have a reading comprehension problem or your being intentionally dishonest.
then, by all means, point out where i am reading it wrong. but if you are unable to do so, then we must conclude that you either have no idea about your disconnected opinions or you are unable to articulate them so that they no longer appear to be contradictory. so, take a stab at it and show us that you have reconcilable opinions on this topic
I see, that lately, you've been trying to approach topics from an intellectual perspective.
You're going to have to beef it up a bit.
garbage in > garbage out. give me something to work with, recognizing that we are discussing your opinions here
 
We are doing it in Illinois, but not enough. We have a two-tiered system -- those hired after a certain date don't get the same bennies as those hired before the date. It's possible. Perhaps when I discuss this I should clarify that I'm talking about Illinois. Or else do some more homework before I apply it across the board. Certainly Iowa looks reasonable. Are they the exception? Don't know.

Neither do I. I'm familiar with Iowa. I had nothing in Mississippi. Private school.
 
ok, you are saying the federal government should not provide assistance to the states to ensure we have adequate fire and police protection and public schooling

but notice how your answers fail to reconcile ... like someone who speaks out of both sides of their mouth
on one hand, you express your opposition to the federal assistance to enable fire and police protection and public education to be made adequate for our citizens, while you simultaneously say you are for the fire/police protection and public education being provided

States, counties and cities are three other layers of government.
They are the people who should be managing these services.

Not the fed, all the way back in Washington, that may or may not have any idea what the hell the individual budget of these particular areas are working with.

it is anticipated that you will lay the responsibility for this upon the ineffective teaching of math skills while you were in school - but your responses do not add up
then, by all means, point out where i am reading it wrong. but if you are unable to do so, then we must conclude that you either have no idea about your disconnected opinions or you are unable to articulate them so that they no longer appear to be contradictory. so, take a stab at it and show us that you have reconcilable opinions on this topic

Took care of it above.

garbage in > garbage out. give me something to work with, recognizing that we are discussing your opinions here

I'm quite aware.
 
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