Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in Conte

Winston Smith · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
The article states that more people believe the conspiracy bull**** because of the film.

No, it doesn't.

Agent Ferris said:
Most conspiracists you'll find these days will take their cues directly from the film exhibit A) Ryhine promoting the "magic bullet" lie. There was nothing magic about this bullet as computer animation proves conclusively that it was a straight trajectory from the Oswald perch when the layout of the jumpseats are taken into account IE Connally's seat was dropped Kennedy's was raised and Connally's was pushed slightly towards the intererior and Connally was shifted slightly towards the right.

There was no other evidence the House Select Committee relied ENTIRELY on the acoustic analysis to make their determination that there was a 2nd gunman and thus a conspiracy rather than a loan assassin.

Bugliosi proved it beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt.

About what? Lied to them about what?

The film was a hodge podge of revisionist conspiracist bull**** passed off as a docu-drama. It was a work of pure fiction which Stone tried to pass off as fact.

I don't really want to get into the assassination theories since the thread is about Stone, not Kennedy. But the committee also cited eyewitness testimony and connections between Oswald and Ruby as factors. Their conclusion that the CIA was not involved was based on certain assumptions about the agency's cooperation, which the counsel later repudiated after learning of information that they had concealed.

Stone's film is a theory or set of theories based on limited information. I'm sure not everything in it is accurate, but the hysterical reaction was unwarranted. As an accuser, he ought to get some leeway when the accused conceals evidence. His skepticism was both patriotic and useful, unless one had something to hide or was just instinctively afraid of the truth.

Agent Ferris · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Winston Smith said:
I don't really want to get into the assassination theories since the thread is about Stone, not Kennedy. But the committee also cited eyewitness testimony and connections between Oswald and Ruby as factors.

Eyewitness testimony = ****, any cop will tell you that, you will have 100 different people telling you 100 different stories especially with a crowd as large as the one in Dealey Plaza on that day. Furthermore; even if there was a connection between Ruby and Oswald (which there isn't any actual evidence for) the idea that Ruby was involved in anything other than an act of revenge in killing Oswald is patently absurd, think about it, you hire a guy to silence the guy to kill the President, then you silence the guy hired to silence the guy to kill the President, but then wait you still have to silence the guy who silenced the guy who silenced the guy who killed the President etc etc ad infinitum.

Their conclusion that the CIA was not involved was based on certain assumptions about the agency's cooperation, which the counsel later repudiated after learning of information that they had concealed.

I don't understand how Castro attemtping (but failing) to infiltrate the DRE which was working with the CIA proves their involvement in any way. Furthermore; Oswald was decidedly pro-Castro, he even attempted to become a citizen of Cuba but was denied which was the last straw that pushed him over the edge.

Show me hard evidence that anyone besides Oswald was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, you have as much hard evidence as the 9-11 truthers.

Stone's film is a theory or set of theories based on limited information. I'm sure not everything in it is accurate, but the hysterical reaction was unwarranted. As an accuser, he ought to get some leeway when the accused conceals evidence. His skepticism was both patriotic and useful, unless one had something to hide or was just instinctively afraid of the truth.

It is a film based on unreliable (at best) testimony and outright proven lies that Stone had to have known to be lies when he put them in the film; such as the, notorious magic bullet.

Stone lionized a nutcase district attorney on a power trip who attempted to destroy the life of an innocent man IE Clay Shaw.

ric27 · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Oliver Stone does history? Again? He should have had his permit revoked after "JFK".

I dont have TIME to counter any more revisionist movie bull****! **** that ****en guy.

Winston Smith · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
Eyewitness testimony = ****, any cop will tell you that, you will have 100 different people telling you 100 different stories especially with a crowd as large as the one in Dealey Plaza on that day. Furthermore; even if there was a connection between Ruby and Oswald (which there isn't any actual evidence for) the idea that Ruby was involved in anything other than an act of revenge in killing Oswald is patently absurd, think about it, you hire a guy to silence the guy to kill the President, then you silence the guy hired to silence the guy to kill the President, but then wait you still have to silence the guy who silenced the guy who silenced the guy who killed the President etc etc ad infinitum.

This old argument proves too much. By your reasoning, no government or criminal organization would ever have reason to silence anyone. And yet we know they do.

Agent Ferris said:
I don't understand how Castro attemtping (but failing) to infiltrate the DRE which was working with the CIA proves their involvement in any way. Furthermore; Oswald was decidedly pro-Castro, he even attempted to become a citizen of Cuba but was denied which was the last straw that pushed him over the edge.

Show me hard evidence that anyone besides Oswald was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, you have as much hard evidence as the 9-11 truthers.

It is a film based on unreliable (at best) testimony and outright proven lies that Stone had to have known to be lies when he put them in the film; such as the, notorious magic bullet.

Stone lionized a nutcase district attorney on a power trip who attempted to destroy the life of an innocent man IE Clay Shaw.

It was Oswald, not Castro, who supposedly tried to infiltrate the DRE. There was thus a mutual connection between the CIA and Oswald, which the committee was never able to investigate because the CIA concealed it.

Agent Ferris · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

RyrineaHaruno said:
To prove Winston, point about the conspiracy in to JFK death. I provide you with a little bit of evidence about this picture below

A) That photo proves absolutely nothing.

B) Who took it and when was it taken?

Agent Ferris · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Winston Smith said:
This old argument proves too much. By your reasoning, no government or criminal organization would ever have reason to silence anyone. And yet we know they do.

Ruby was a run down night club owner whose connections with the mob were pretty much non-existent as made clear by Bugliosi:

It is very noteworthy that without exception, not one of these conspiracy theorists knew or had ever met Jack Ruby. Without our even resorting to his family and roommate, all of whom think the suggestion of Ruby being connected to the mob is ridiculous, those who knew him, unanimously and without exception, think the notion of his being connected to the Mafia, and then killing Oswald for them, is nothing short of laughable.[12]

Anyways where is the evidence that Oswald had any connection with Ruby aside from some guy somewhere saying that he onetime saw Oswald in one of Ruby's nightclubs?

It was Oswald, not Castro, who supposedly tried to infiltrate the DRE. There was thus a mutual connection between the CIA and Oswald, which the committee was never able to investigate because the CIA concealed it.

Oswald was pro-Castro, the DRE was anti-Castro and knowingly working with the CIA.

RyrineaHaruno · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris, it does prove that a man that looked liked Oswald was at the bottom of the book depositary on the day of the Kennedy assassination. Oh, and guess what the person who shot the photograph, AND his wife died by emission poisoning from a broken fire place in his home. James Altgens, was an Associated Press photographer who took the photo showing at the time of Kennedy grabbing his throat. It clearly shows someone that looks likes Oswald at the bottom of the book depositary. I am a conspiracy theorist, but I am also a reasonable kind as well. When you do research in to the assassination of Kennedy their is just to many weird events like the Zuperder film for one thing. He goes back a little, and then to the left which to me seem like he was shot from the front instead of the back however physic wise I can see him being shot behind his head. ie force to the object ectt. However I myself don't think Oswald did this alone I think he did it with some help of some short got money from Castro, or the mafia ectt... .

Pleas excuse me for going way off topic, I was just trying to prove mister Winston point about something fishy going on

Demon of Light · Jul 30, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
The point is more people believe in the bull**** conspiracy theory thanks to that horse**** work of fiction passed off to the public as history.

I doubt it had a great deal of impact except maybe some people watched it and did some research afterwards. That's about all I can think of with regards to your accusation.

Agent Ferris said:
Eyewitness testimony = ****, any cop will tell you that, you will have 100 different people telling you 100 different stories especially with a crowd as large as the one in Dealey Plaza on that day.

There is a big difference when dealing with people who know someone personally. Eyewitness like that can generally be considered more reliable than the typical on-the-street interview.

Furthermore; even if there was a connection between Ruby and Oswald (which there isn't any actual evidence for) the idea that Ruby was involved in anything other than an act of revenge in killing Oswald is patently absurd, think about it, you hire a guy to silence the guy to kill the President, then you silence the guy hired to silence the guy to kill the President, but then wait you still have to silence the guy who silenced the guy who silenced the guy who killed the President etc etc ad infinitum.

Ruby had ties to the mafia, the mafia do that sort of thing all the time and back then the CIA were good friends with the mafia allowing them to prevent anything to point at mafia involvement.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
There is a big difference when dealing with people who know someone personally. Eyewitness like that can generally be considered more reliable than the typical on-the-street interview.

Agreed but that's not the type of testimony which was presented to the House Select Committee, they relied on people who heard shots and the like, the only actual credible evidence they had was the long debunked audio analysis which the computer animation sequence which combined numerous video recordings for a single 3-d map of the entire event proved that no motorcycle cop was where it needed to be. The audio analysists made a huge assumption and they have been proven wrong.

Ruby had ties to the mafia, the mafia do that sort of thing all the time and back then the CIA were good friends with the mafia allowing them to prevent anything to point at mafia involvement.

He didn't really have ties to the mafia though unless you count knowing a guy who knew a guy who was once connected to the mob to be a valid connection.

You know that eyewitness testimony that you assert is credible (to which I agree with BTW) well Ruby's family and friends find the claims of his mafia ties and that he would kill Oswald for the mob to be laughable as cited in Bugliosi's authoritative book on the subject of the JFK assassination.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

RyrineaHaruno said:
Agent Ferris, it does prove that a man that looked liked Oswald was at the bottom of the book depositary on the day of the Kennedy assassination.

It doesn't prove anything, are we looking at the same freaking photo here?

A) That photo is not conclusive for a visual identification.

B) It is in black and white thus the color of the shirts worn by both Oswald and the man in the picture could be two totally different colors for all we know.

C) There is no timestamp on the photograph so even if it was Oswald (a huge if) it proves absolutely nothing.

Oh, and guess what the person who shot the photograph, AND his wife died by emission poisoning from a broken fire place in his home. James Altgens, was an Associated Press photographer who took the photo showing at the time of Kennedy grabbing his throat.

lol he died in ****ing 1995 pal, are you asserting that these conspirators bided their time and gassed him and his wife more than 30 years after the Kennedy assassination?

I mean seriously, you conspiracists will try anything.

It clearly shows someone that looks likes Oswald at the bottom of the book depositary.

I see a blury black and white photo with no timestamp.

I am a conspiracy theorist, but I am also a reasonable kind as well. When you do research in to the assassination of Kennedy their is just to many weird events like the Zuperder film for one thing. He goes back a little, and then to the left which to me seem like he was shot from the front instead of the back however physic wise I can see him being shot behind his head. ie force to the object ectt.

Sometimes people shot from behind spasm forward and sometimes they spasm backwards.

However I myself don't think Oswald did this alone I think he did it with some help of some short got money from Castro, or the mafia ectt... .

Ya I'm not going to watch the zapruder film it's disgusting.

Pleas excuse me for going way off topic, I was just trying to prove mister Winston point about something fishy going on

Still no evidence pointing to anyone but Oswald.

Demon of Light · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
Agreed but that's not the type of testimony which was presented to the House Select Committee, they relied on people who heard shots and the like, the only actual credible evidence they had was the long debunked audio analysis which the computer animation sequence which combined numerous video recordings for a single 3-d map of the entire event proved that no motorcycle cop was where it needed to be. The audio analysists made a huge assumption and they have been proven wrong.

You were challenging the testimony of one his co-workers as it concerns what he saw on the day of the assassination. Also concerning the photo posted earlier that appears to be Oswald but investigators identified as someone else, despite obvious reasons to question that, a supervisor of the person it was claimed to be said that person had been sitting on the steps rather than standing in the doorway like the man in the photo.

He didn't really have ties to the mafia though unless you count knowing a guy who knew a guy who was once connected to the mob to be a valid connection.

That is hardly an accurate description. He was well-known associates of two people who at the very least had ties to a local mob boss and may have even been major players in the organization. We are talking at most two degrees of separation which is hardly enough to say someone didn't have ties to the mob, especially when they all live in the same city at the same time.

You know that eyewitness testimony that you assert is credible (to which I agree with BTW) well Ruby's family and friends find the claims of his mafia ties and that he would kill Oswald for the mob to be laughable as cited in Bugliosi's authoritative book on the subject of the JFK assassination.

That's a little different from what we were talking about. Those would not be eyewitnesses, but character witnesses and that is far from the same thing. A lot of people may be close to someone but not really know about everything that goes on with them. Though, on some level it actually makes more sense to have someone who no one would peg for executing a mob hit to carry out a mob hit, specifically one that would be caught on camera. Had Oswald been killed by a clear mobster or under suspicious circumstances in his cell then there would be more investigation, but Jack Ruby shot him in front of the whole world. No controversy there.

phattonez · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
Sometimes people shot from behind spasm forward and sometimes they spasm backwards.

Ya I'm not going to watch the zapruder film it's disgusting.

If you would watch the movie you would see that it's not a spasm. He goes back and to the left from impact from a bullet. Also don't forget that there are officially two government theories on the assassination: one claims that there was one shooter, another claims that there were at least two.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
You were challenging the testimony of one his co-workers as it concerns what he saw on the day of the assassination.

That is not the type of witness testimony which is credible. I agreed that character witnesses testimony is acceptable IE a wife or bestfriend testifying to the persons mob ties. The eyewitness testimony you are referring to is not credible at all as it involves people being asked hours to days after the even the exact time and the like. What exactly were you doing at 11:53 AM yesterday, who was with you, and where was so and so, was he sitting or standing at that exact time. :roll: Memory is simply not a video recording.

Also concerning the photo posted earlier that appears to be Oswald

It appears to be a blury picture.

but investigators identified as someone else, despite obvious reasons to question that, a supervisor of the person it was claimed to be said that person had been sitting on the steps rather than standing in the doorway like the man in the photo.

lol I guess people in a sitting position must remain in a sitting position. I mean the guy could have never have stood up or anything.

That is hardly an accurate description. He was well-known associates of two people who at the very least had ties to a local mob boss

So he knew two guys who may have had a ties to the mob.

and may have even been major players in the organization. We are talking at most two degrees of separation which is hardly enough to say someone didn't have ties to the mob, especially when they all live in the same city at the same time.

Which two guys? When were these alleged two guys supposed to have had their connections to this local mob boss? Who was this alleged mob boss? What were their ties to that local mob boss? What was Ruby's connections to these two guys?

What you are doing is saying that A knew B and B knew C so A must have known C. That is not a serious connection at all.

That's a little different from what we were talking about. Those would not be eyewitnesses, but character witnesses and that is far from the same thing. A lot of people may be close to someone but not really know about everything that goes on with them.

Eyewitness testimony is not reliable especially the kind of eyewitness testimony you are talking about. We are not talking about an alibi here we are talking about someone who remembered as an afterthought when questioned that Oswald was at a certain place at an exact time, this is the exact kind of eyewitness testimony which is completely unreliable.

Though on some level it actually makes more sense to have someone who no one would peg for executing a mob hit to carry out a mob hit, specifically one that would be caught on camera.

In the world of the conspiracist lack of evidence for the mob connections means it makes more sense that it was a mob hit. :roll:

Had Oswald been killed by a clear mobster or under suspicious circumstances in his cell then there would be more investigation, but Jack Ruby shot him in front of the whole world. No controversy there.

Do you think Ruby was likewise silenced?
Well there shouldn't be any controversy due to the fact that there is no evidence for a Jack Ruby-Mafia connection other than he knew A and A may have known B.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

phattonez said:
If you would watch the movie you would see that it's not a spasm. He goes back and to the left from impact from a bullet.

You would think conspiracists would be sick of being wrong:

The simple fact is that John F. Kennedy's head did not snap "back and to the left." What the human eye cannot perceive with ease while viewing the Zapruder film is clearly revealed in a frame-by-frame comparison: that between Zapruder frames 312 and 313, the President's head is propelled forward several inches (2.3 inches, according to one study),(2) before strongly snapping backwards, beginning at frame 313 (the first frame in which the results of the bullet strike become visible).

The fifth shot ("Back and to the left"): Oliver Stone's JFK: The JFK 100: JFK assassination investigation: Jim Garrison New Orleans investigation of the John F. Kennedy assassination

Also don't forget that there are officially two government theories on the assassination: one claims that there was one shooter, another claims that there were at least two.

For the House Select Committee ruled that there was a conspiracy because (and only because) it relied on the audio analysis from the motorcycle cops open CB radio and this evidence has since been completely debunked because it was assumed that the motorcycle was in a precise location at the time of the shooting and using computer animation to combine several visual recordings it has been determined concluslively that no motorcycle cops were anywhere near that location at the time of the shooting.

phattonez · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

So those motorcycles right next to the president's car in the Zapruder Film are secret service?

And the force for his head to go back so quickly came from where?

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

phattonez said:
So those motorcycles right next to the president's car in the Zapruder Film are secret service?

And the force for his head to go back so quickly came from where?

A) His head went forward before it went backwards.

B) Sometimes people shot in the back of the head have their head snap forwards and sometimes they snap backwards, it all depends on the direction the muscles decide to spasm.

C) The audio analsysis said that the motorcycle cop with the open microphone had to be at 4 certain points of reference at 4 precise times, the computer animation which combines several visual records of the events into a continious 3-D map proves conclusively that no motorcycle cop was anywhere near those 4 points at those 4 certain times, the audio analysts made a huge assumption and they were wrong. The falsity of the acoustic analysis from the House Select Committee is no longer in question:

SECRETS OF A HOMICIDE: ACOUSTICS - EPIPOLAR GEOMETRIC ANALYSIS OF AMATEUR FILMS RELATED TO ACOUSTICS EVIDENCE IN THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION

Demon of Light · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
That is not the type of witness testimony which is credible. I agreed that character witnesses testimony is acceptable IE a wife or bestfriend testifying to the persons mob ties.

Translation: "The only credible eyewitness testimony is the testimony that serves my bias."

lol I guess people in a sitting position must remain in a sitting position. I mean the guy could have never have stood up or anything.

Yeah, only problem is the person in the picture is clearly not wearing what the alleged man himself said he was wearing and was photographed wearing later, while it looks a lot like what Oswald was wearing. In any event it seems pretty clear to me that person standing there was not the person the FBI claimed.

So he knew two guys who may have had a ties to the mob.

Which two guys? When were these alleged two guys supposed to have had their connections to this local mob boss? Who was this alleged mob boss? What were their ties to that local mob boss? What was Ruby's connections to these two guys?

What you are doing is saying that A knew B and B knew C so A must have known C. That is not a serious connection at all.

It's a lot more serious than that:

AARC Public Digital Library - HSCA Appendix to Hearings - Volume IX, pg

There's a lot of interesting information in there actually.

We are not talking about an alibi here we are talking about someone who remembered as an afterthought when questioned that Oswald was at a certain place at an exact time, this is the exact kind of eyewitness testimony which is completely unreliable.

If this was someone who did not know Oswald it might be more legitimate, but when someone actually knows the person and it takes place at a certain critical moment, people tend to remember. I remember vividly much of what I saw and heard at the critical moments on September 11, 2001 and I think you would find most people are the same. People typically remember who they saw right before the President was assassinated, specifically if they saw someone they knew for a while at that time.

In the world of the conspiracist lack of evidence for the mob connections means it makes more sense that it was a mob hit.

I'm not talking about lack of evidence. I am talking about a lack of belief. Were you to carry out a very public hit would you use someone who would be quickly and easily identified as a mob hitman or would you go with someone whose family will swear the idea of him being involved with the mob is absurd?

Do you think Ruby was likewise silenced?

I think Ruby could be kept quiet without being killed.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
Translation: "The only credible eyewitness testimony is the testimony that serves my bias."

No the translation is that eyewitness testimony is not very credible.

Yeah, only problem is the person in the picture is clearly not wearing what the alleged man himself said he was wearing and was photographed wearing later, while it looks a lot like what Oswald was wearing. In any event it seems pretty clear to me that person standing there was not the person the FBI claimed.

It's a black and white photo, they could be two completely different color clothes. Did anyone ever identify the man as Oswald?

It's a lot more serious than that:

AARC Public Digital Library - HSCA Appendix to Hearings - Volume IX, pg

There's a lot of interesting information in there actually.

The article asserts that Campisi being a member of organized crime has ranged from "definite, to suspect, to negative," and that there "was no indication that Campisi had engaged in any specific organized crime-related activities," but that he was a friend of many suspected mob members, it, also, states that Ruby's connection to Campisi is that he ate at one of Ruby's restaurants or club.

So your article is only backing up the assertion that I said it would, Ruby had a tenuous (at best) relationship with A, and A knew B, so Ruby must have known B.

If this was someone who did not know Oswald it might be more legitimate, but when someone actually knows the person and it takes place at a certain critical moment, people tend to remember. I remember vividly much of what I saw and heard at the critical moments on September 11, 2001 and I think you would find most people are the same. People typically remember who they saw right before the President was assassinated, specifically if they saw someone they knew for a while at that time.

A) No matter how vivid your memory is it is not the same thing as a video recording no matter how much you may think so.

B) Are you honestly going to suggest that you can remember exactly where someone was at precisely 11:23 AM on the morning of 9-11-2001? This is the type of eyewitness testimony which is not credible, people misremember all the time, they might be able to remember in a general sense of what they were doing but they can not remember definitively the specifics because that's simply not how memory works; such as, precise times, colors, whether someone is standing or sitting at certain times, etc.

I'm not talking about lack of evidence. I am talking about a lack of belief. Were you to carry out a very public hit would you use someone who would be quickly and easily identified as a mob hitman or would you go with someone whose family will swear the idea of him being involved with the mob is absurd?

I would use a professional hitter who wouldn't get caught. If I had the alleged ties with the police that allowed Ruby that close to Oswald I would have used an overdose of sodium pentathol to induce an untraceable appearance of a heart attack. Anyways the idea that you can "use" a person as a hitter who knows he's going to get caught is absurd. The truth is Ruby wanted his 15 minutes of fame and thought he would be welcomed as a hero.

Demon of Light · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

After looking into it a little more I would say I am fairly convinced the photo is not of Oswald.

Agent Ferris said:
The article asserts that Campisi being a member of organized crime has ranged from "definite, to suspect, to negative," and that there "was no indication that Campisi had engaged in any specific organized crime-related activities," but that he was a friend of many suspected mob members, it, also, states that Ruby's connection to Campisi is that he ate at one of Ruby's restaurants or club.

So your article is only backing up the assertion that I said it would, Ruby had a tenuous (at best) relationship with A, and A knew B, so Ruby must have known B.

Did you read the whole thing? He said they knew each other since 1947, mentioned Ruby eating at his restaurant, him going to the clubs Ruby operated, meeting him at sporting events, and Ruby going over to his house once. He then claimed he never socialized with Ruby and yet in another instance he says that Ruby operated the clubs on a cash basis always having money in his pockets (he would later say he never knew Ruby to carry around large sums of money). He also had been the first person called to Ruby's cell and spoke with him for ten minutes.

I advise you to read more as well. For one his long-suspected involvement in gambling and bookmaking operations together with ties to members of the Dallas Police, DA's office, and hell he even killed a guy. Not to mention he was good buddies with the Marcellos including Carlos Marcello.

I would use a professional hitter who wouldn't get caught. If I had the alleged ties with the police that allowed Ruby that close to Oswald I would have used an overdose of sodium pentathol to induce an untraceable appearance of a heart attack.

I think you watch too many movies.

Anyways the idea that you can "use" a person as a hitter who knows he's going to get caught is absurd.

If you make it a choice between being dead and being in prison you most certainly can.

Agent Ferris · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
After looking into it a little more I would say I am fairly convinced the photo is not of Oswald.

I have no idea whether or not it is Oswald only that there is no evidence that it is Oswald. What convinced you it wasn't Oswald?

Did you read the whole thing?

I read the entire page that you presented.

He said they knew each other since 1947,

"Or '49."

mentioned Ruby eating at his restaurant,him going to the clubs Ruby operated, meeting him at sporting events, and Ruby going over to his house once.

So they were in the same social circle.

He then claimed he never socialized with Ruby and yet in another instance he says that Ruby operated the clubs on a cash basis always having money in his pockets (he would later say he never knew Ruby to carry around large sums of money).

So he's not a very credible witness is he?

He also had been the first person called to Ruby's cell and spoke with him for ten minutes.

Because Ruby wanted to know the reaction from their shared circle of friends.

I advise you to read more as well. For one his long-suspected involvement in gambling and bookmaking operations together with ties to members of the Dallas Police, DA's office, and hell he even killed a guy. Not to mention he was good buddies with the Marcellos including Carlos Marcello.

In other words Ruby had a tenuous relationship with a guy who knew a guy.

The article makes it clear that there was no evidence that Cambisi was directly involved in organized crime related activity.

If you make it a choice between being dead and being in prison you most certainly can.

This would have made the choice all that much simpler IE going to the Feds and turning states evidence.

The Giant Noodle · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

RyrineaHaruno said:
This is in the wrong forum Newsbuters is a blog site "not actual news." So this is someone opinion of what he says, and hell it could be made up.

NewsBusted is probably the worst politically-biased website on the internet. It isnt funny.... it isnt news.... it isnt even entertainment. Fools get information from there. :roll:

Demon of Light · Jul 31, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
I have no idea whether or not it is Oswald only that there is no evidence that it is Oswald. What convinced you it wasn't Oswald?

I found this picture of Lovelady:

You look at pictures of Oswald and compare both to the photo and it seems most likely that it is Lovelady.

I read the entire page that you presented.

Well, then I can only assume your previous post was deliberate deception on your part since you would know full well that it was more than Ruby eating at a restaurant and that their ties were not tenuous. You also wouldn't so quickly dismiss Campisi's mob affiliation.

"Or '49."

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of difference if they knew each other for 14 instead of 16 years.

So they were in the same social circle.

Yet he claims they never socialized.

So he's not a very credible witness is he?

As far as his connection to Ruby I would say not. I would also say his denial of being involved in criminal activity is not credible.

Because Ruby wanted to know the reaction from their shared circle of friends.

Really? The guy Campisi said he never socialized with went to him first to find out people's reactions. Never mind that is the flimsiest reason given for meeting someone I've heard, especially having that person be the first one you meet.

In other words Ruby had a tenuous relationship with a guy who knew a guy.

All right, you are obviously just deliberately using deceitful and misleading language now and I'm tired of it. It was more than a tenuous relationship. Also, this was not just Campisi knowing a guy, but being chummy with mob bosses. There are other interesting things about Ruby's ties with the mob involving other individuals, especially as it concerns a trip to Havana and calls he made to a number of mobsters and known mob associates, by mob associates here I mean people who were not mobsters but worked for the mob.

The article makes it clear that there was no evidence that Cambisi was directly involved in organized crime related activity.

What are you? PR for the mob? When someone has people inside the DA's office and inside the police department I would hardly expect them to ever get convicted of anything.

This would have made the choice all that much simpler IE going to the Feds and turning states evidence.

I seem to recall you making similar fanciful and romantic claims about the integrity of the American justice system. He wouldn't be able to prove jack, the mob would definitely learn of it, and he'd still end up dead.

Agent Ferris · Aug 1, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
Well, then I can only assume your previous post was deliberate deception on your part since you would know full well that it was more than Ruby eating at a restaurant and that their ties were not tenuous. You also wouldn't so quickly dismiss Campisi's mob affiliation.

Ya they ate at a few of the same restaurants and Ruby might have been to his house once.

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of difference if they knew each other for 14 instead of 16 years.

What matters is the fact that there's no evidence that Cambisi himself was involved in organized crime.

Yet he claims they never socialized.

I don't socialize with all of the people in my social circle, I know A, A knows B, B is often at the parties that I attend due to my knowing A but I do not really know B all to well.

As far as his connection to Ruby I would say not. I would also say his denial of being involved in criminal activity is not credible.

I would say that your article states clearly that there was no evidence of him being guilty of organized crime-related activity.

Really? The guy Campisi said he never socialized with went to him first to find out people's reactions. Never mind that is the flimsiest reason given for meeting someone I've heard, especially having that person be the first one you meet.

Maybe he was the only person he could reach.

All right, you are obviously just deliberately using deceitful and misleading language now and I'm tired of it. It was more than a tenuous relationship. Also, this was not just Campisi knowing a guy, but being chummy with mob bosses.

So what, that in no way proves that Ruby was chummy with a mob boss.

There are other interesting things about Ruby's ties with the mob involving other individuals, especially as it concerns a trip to Havana and calls he made to a number of mobsters and known mob associates, by mob associates here I mean people who were not mobsters but worked for the mob.

Which known members of organized crime did Ruby have as associates?

What are you? PR for the mob? When someone has people inside the DA's office and inside the police department I would hardly expect them to ever get convicted of anything.

So he had connections in the FBI as well?

I seem to recall you making similar fanciful and romantic claims about the integrity of the American justice system. He wouldn't be able to prove jack, the mob would definitely learn of it, and he'd still end up dead.

Ya I'm sure the Feds wouldn't A) love a chance to go after the mob for killing Kennedy, and B) love even more going after the CIA if they were involved. If there really was mob involvement in the assassination of JFK and Ruby had knowledge of it he could have turned states evidence for the Feds and ended up in WitSec rather than dead or in prison.

The idea that the mob would have risked that rather than turning to a professional hitter is simply not credible.

Moreover, the mob has been thoroughly dissected from top to bottom and there is 0 hard evidence of their involvement, or anyone's involvement besides Oswald for that matter.

Demon of Light · Aug 1, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Agent Ferris said:
Ya they ate at a few of the same restaurants and Ruby might have been to his house once.

I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that you have no real interest in an honest debate now, but rather are just wanting to repeat false or misleading claims over and over in the hopes it will have some sort of effect that can allow you to claim you won the debate.

Ruby ate at Campisi's restaurant on a regular basis and Campisi went to several of Ruby's clubs several times. That Ruby considered him such a friend that he would be the first person he'd meet after being arrested speaks volumes about their ties to each other.

What matters is the fact that there's no evidence that Cambisi himself was involved in organized crime.

You know, I'm pretty sure if this had no impact on something you perceived as a delusional conspiracy theory you would not be making this argument.

Maybe he was the only person he could reach.

Yeah, no.

So what, that in no way proves that Ruby was chummy with a mob boss.

True, but it makes a much more compelling case that Ruby had direct ties with the mob.

Which known members of organized crime did Ruby have as associates?

This lists some names and the manner of association as well as conclusions of the HSCA:

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Given the evidence and the conclusions of the committee it seems probable that Ruby not only associated with the mob, but that he had at least participated in some mob activities.

So he had connections in the FBI as well?

I do not know about Campisi personally, but definitely other major mob figures did, not to mention CIA who used the mob to support the anti-Castro forces. Of course, if the local police insist there is nothing there it can have an influence on whether the FBI does anything as well. Not to mention Hoover spent most of his career denying the very existence of the mob.

Ya I'm sure the Feds wouldn't A) love a chance to go after the mob for killing Kennedy, and B) love even more going after the CIA if they were involved. If there really was mob involvement in the assassination of JFK and Ruby had knowledge of it he could have turned states evidence for the Feds and ended up in WitSec rather than dead or in prison.

Lol, you're just so cute.

Agent Ferris · Aug 1, 2010

Re: Oliver Stone: 'Jewish-Dominated Media' Prevents Hitler from Being Portrayed 'in C

Demon of Light said:
I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that you have no real interest in an honest debate now, but rather are just wanting to repeat false or misleading claims over and over in the hopes it will have some sort of effect that can allow you to claim you won the debate.

Ruby ate at Campisi's restaurant on a regular basis and Campisi went to several of Ruby's clubs several times. That Ruby considered him such a friend that he would be the first person he'd meet after being arrested speaks volumes about their ties to each other.

Whatever's clever they ate at eachother's restaurants, regardless there's no evidence that Campisi himself was a member of the mob.

You know, I'm pretty sure if this had no impact on something you perceived as a delusional conspiracy theory you would not be making this argument.

Somethings pretty delusional when you're asserting that the mob would use a known snitch to perform the hit on the man who killed the President on their behalf.

So who is expected to silence the silencer? It's ****ing ridiculous.

Yeah, no.

True, but it makes a much more compelling case that Ruby had direct ties with the mob.

A knows B and B knows C =/= A knows B. It is not a compelling case for anything.

This lists some names and the manner of association as well as conclusions of the HSCA:

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Given the evidence and the conclusions of the committee it seems probable that Ruby not only associated with the mob, but that he had at least participated in some mob activities.

Ya I'm not digging through 20+ pages what's there names and what are the associations? Again this makes no sense, Oswald has not been demonstrated to have any mob connections, the only guy you have named and not file dumped onto me is Campisi and it is said he was not personally a member of the mob. Apparently low level wise coming into Ruby's club = mob ties.

I do not know about Campisi personally, but definitely other major mob figures did,

Who? Name them. I'm not digging through a file dump.

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