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Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

ptif219 said:
Had nothing to do with defects?
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Not so much no

Auto sales in the US went from around 15 million a year to 10 million a year. That is a massive decrease in revenues for the autocompanies. If I am not mistaken only three companies may have seen sales increase Hyundai/ Kia and Ford. For
 
digsbe said:
I think we can handle the truth, we just don't want to hear it ;) This problem stems from both sides of the isle. Regardless, we see Harry Reid clearly lying, and we know Obama has lied about the stimulus. They make these false claims that are borderline propaganda. Their default tone is that the bailouts and stimulus has saved us all, when in reality they don't know what they are talking about.
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What's the lie about the stimulus? Jobs were saved. I showed those saved in education in another thread.

But, as you say, both parties exaggerate. We know that. And it means very little. We can make good judgement despite that because we know it.

However, the point is we want our leaders to do something. And that is what they have done, have always done, and will always do. For them, they are mostly dammed if the do and damned if they don't. But more so if they don't.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
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actually wasn't it the oversea's sells revenue that saved Ford, they did the right thing and invested in places like China.
 
Boo Radley said:
What's the lie about the stimulus? Jobs were saved. I showed those saved in education in another thread.

But, as you say, both parties exaggerate. We know that. And it means very little. We can make good judgement despite that because we know it.

However, the point is we want our leaders to do something. And that is what they have done, have always done, and will always do. For them, they are mostly dammed if the do and damned if they don't. But more so if they don't.
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Obama saved union jobs for votes. So it is not about jobs for Obama but about votes and politics
 
ptif219 said:
Obama saved union jobs for votes. So it is not about jobs for Obama but about votes and politics
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You know, none of the teachers where I'm at are in any union. Yet, their jobs were saved. Seriously, I think you're just too cynical for your own good.
 
ptif219 said:
Most teachers have a union
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I don't know any in a union, so I can't say. But I can say you can want teachers in our schools and not do it for union votes.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Toyota felt similar shocks to demand; for the first time in their existence, they reported a net loss.
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I know, but net loss =/= imminent threat of bankruptcy.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
correction. Certain republicans would have done them, yes McCain so you are right there. but nah, if they cant hang they should fold
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1
You live in a fantasy world. Do you have any idea what that would have done to the fragile economy of Q1 2010? The auto industry (including its supply chain) is almost 10% of GDP, and a huge, huge part of the GDP of the mid-west. Talk about too big to fail. If those companies had collasped, so would have our economy. Bush/Obama did the right thing. It is almost intellectually dishonest to have a legitimate argument to the contrary, given the US stands to get its money back, we have one very healthy company in GM and we have millions less on unemployment, particularly in the midwest.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't know any in a union, so I can't say. But I can say you can want teachers in our schools and not do it for union votes.
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Obama is always thinking of unions.So because you don't know any that means something?
 
ptif219 said:
Obama is always thinking of unions.So because you don't know any that means something?
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No, it means nothing at all, which is why I said, "so I can'rt say." The important sentence was the second one: But I can say you can want teachers in our schools and not do it for union votes.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it means nothing at all, which is why I said, "so I can'rt say." The important sentence was the second one: But I can say you can want teachers in our schools and not do it for union votes.
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Obama owes the unions
 
Boo Radley said:
What's the lie about the stimulus? Jobs were saved. I showed those saved in education in another thread.
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The Obama can point to very few jobs and claim that they "saved" them. The main lie was the fear tactic of saying "if we don't pass thus, unemployment will rise! If we do pass this it will not go above 8%!" Right now the unemployment rate is at 9.5% and has been as high as 10.1%. Obama's stimulus was a massive failure, and we are constantly seeing horror stories where tons of cash is being thrown at special interests and wasteful spending.
But, as you say, both parties exaggerate. We know that. And it means very little. We can make good judgement despite that because we know it.
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This is true, but what the Democrats have done is factually incorrect, and this has many people angry over the stimulus and Obama's approach at job creation.
However, the point is we want our leaders to do something. And that is what they have done, have always done, and will always do. For them, they are mostly dammed if the do and damned if they don't. But more so if they don't.
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I think America would be better off if Obama did nothing, if the healthcare bill didn't pass and if the stimulus didn't pass. It would have been best to reduce spending, cut taxes, and let the economy grow with less restraint during a time of economic crisis. Government action is not always the answer, and in many cases it is the problem.
 
digsbe said:
The Obama can point to very few jobs and claim that they "saved" them. The main lie was the fear tactic of saying "if we don't pass thus, unemployment will rise! If we do pass this it will not go above 8%!" Right now the unemployment rate is at 9.5% and has been as high as 10.1%. Obama's stimulus was a massive failure, and we are constantly seeing horror stories where tons of cash is being thrown at special interests and wasteful spending.

This is true, but what the Democrats have done is factually incorrect, and this has many people angry over the stimulus and Obama's approach at job creation.

I think America would be better off if Obama did nothing, if the healthcare bill didn't pass and if the stimulus didn't pass. It would have been best to reduce spending, cut taxes, and let the economy grow with less restraint during a time of economic crisis. Government action is not always the answer, and in many cases it is the problem.
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Again, I have show education jobs saved. There is no question about them. Some were saved. Even if we debate how many, there is no dispute that some were saved. I haven't looked any place else, but there is a liklihood that were money went, someone probably stayed a while longer.

Sure, our leaders hype there cases. There was this Bush fellow who once said Saddam was growing and gathering. It was clearly false. Anyone who would look would see it. But, we went to war anyway.

Now, this doesn't justify either lying, but we know they will streatch things at best. At least this lie didn't cost thousands of lives for next to nothing.

BTW, you do know stimulus spending isn't new? Right/ ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, I have show education jobs saved. There is no question about them. Some were saved. Even if we debate how many, there is no dispute that some were saved. I haven't looked any place else, but there is a liklihood that were money went, someone probably stayed a while longer.

Sure, our leaders hype there cases. There was this Bush fellow who once said Saddam was growing and gathering. It was clearly false. Anyone who would look would see it. But, we went to war anyway.

Now, this doesn't justify either lying, but we know they will streatch things at best. At least this lie didn't cost thousands of lives for next to nothing.

BTW, you do know stimulus spending isn't new? Right/ ;)
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It may be a fallacy that the stimulus saved teachers jobs. I say this because we do not know what the alternative would have been with no stimulus for the states. Perhaps the states and towns would have found other places to cut. Politicians used teacher cuts because they know that is a sensitive area. The Obama people are great in using their own scare tactics just like the Bush people did.

You are correct that at least these distortions did not cost lives and treasure, just treasure. So Obama wins the relative cost of lie battle, but in my view he is still a liar/distorter of the facts.
 
washunut said:
It may be a fallacy that the stimulus saved teachers jobs. I say this because we do not know what the alternative would have been with no stimulus for the states. Perhaps the states and towns would have found other places to cut. Politicians used teacher cuts because they know that is a sensitive area. The Obama people are great in using their own scare tactics just like the Bush people did.

You are correct that at least these distortions did not cost lives and treasure, just treasure. So Obama wins the relative cost of lie battle, but in my view he is still a liar/distorter of the facts.
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Yes, money may have fallen from the sky. We know. But, we do know where the stimulus money has ended, and I linked this earlier, tose jobs ended when the money ended. No money fell and saved them. Lost. And it appears more losses are coming.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, money may have fallen from the sky. We know. But, we do know where the stimulus money has ended, and I linked this earlier, tose jobs ended when the money ended. No money fell and saved them. Lost. And it appears more losses are coming.
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Totally agree. Sad because people would rather cut jobs to make a political point than find ways to cut costs f government. I intend to work for free for our town to look for ways to reduce costs which will not adveresly impact the townspeoples way of life.
 
washunut said:
Totally agree. Sad because people would rather cut jobs to make a political point than find ways to cut costs f government. I intend to work for free for our town to look for ways to reduce costs which will not adveresly impact the townspeoples way of life.
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Noble effort. No complaint from me on that.

However, I don't much can be done along those lines. Take a school. The cost for the building up keep and utlities won't go down. Even if you layout the cost for more efficient heating a cooling, something not likely, those costs almost always go up. Cutting teachers and crowding classrooms is often counterproductive. So, hard decisions often have to be made, and often, we're not better for them.
 
Boo Radley said:
Noble effort. No complaint from me on that.

However, I don't much can be done along those lines. Take a school. The cost for the building up keep and utlities won't go down. Even if you layout the cost for more efficient heating a cooling, something not likely, those costs almost always go up. Cutting teachers and crowding classrooms is often counterproductive. So, hard decisions often have to be made, and often, we're not better for them.
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There are a ton of costs that do not impact teachers or schools. I won't know where the potential savings will come from until I have a chance to look at all the elements of cost and try to come up with solutions on how to lower them.

The one thing I am comfortable saying is that I have never seen a business where there were not opportunities to reduce costs. It seems like a safe bet that the same will be true with the town's spending.
 
washunut said:
There are a ton of costs that do not impact teachers or schools. I won't know where the potential savings will come from until I have a chance to look at all the elements of cost and try to come up with solutions on how to lower them.

The one thing I am comfortable saying is that I have never seen a business where there were not opportunities to reduce costs. It seems like a safe bet that the same will be true with the town's spending.
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I would bet very few. Schools are bled pretty dry. If anything, it would be in administration costs. Good luck with that.
 
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