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Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

Of course he does. What's the religious justification for this though?

Free will is justified in scripture. You may choose to do what's right or you may choose what's wrong. You're SUPPOSED to choose what's right, obviously. How is that equal to government control of charity? You're supposed to make the choice yourself.

I understand the point about politics in liberation theology, yet if you are indeed working on the behalf of the poor and oppressed there will almost always be political consequences.

Consider the struggle of US abolitionists. Would it enough to simply bandage the wounds of whipped slaves, or is there a responsibility to end the injustice? Sometimes personal charity is not enough. Once again this doesn't dictate political methods spelled out by Liberation Theology, but there will be political ramifications.

I agree that the government needs to get involved to protect people who are being mistreated. Hurting someone is a crime and should be dealt with by the courts.

Pretty much my reaction too.

But you had that reaction thinking it's true that he's against charity. Do you really not know what charitable contributions he's made? Do you honestly think he doesn't give his money to help others?
 
Free will is justified in scripture. You may choose to do what's right or you may choose what's wrong. You're SUPPOSED to choose what's right, obviously. How is that equal to government control of charity?
It's not equal to government control, that's not my point. I'm asking for the scriptural justification of Beck's values, not free will. I'm guessing they don't exist.

I agree that the government needs to get involved to protect people who are being mistreated. Hurting someone is a crime and should be dealt with by the courts.
The real question is when a Christian should get involved and how much obligation they have and in what ways should they to respond to oppression. If you agree that more than charity is needed then it largely becomes a matter of how you define oppression. From what I can tell this is the crux because Beck doesn't appear to believe in social justice outside of charity. Which apparently means actions such as MLK Jr's fall outside of Beck's blessing.

But you had that reaction thinking it's true that he's against charity. Do you really not know what charitable contributions he's made? Do you honestly think he doesn't give his money to help others?
he's against social justice (your quote I was responding to contained "justice" as well as "charity")
 
It's not equal to government control, that's not my point. I'm asking for the scriptural justification of Beck's values, not free will. I'm guessing they don't exist.

Free will is part of scripture. Jesus doesn't FORCE people to obey. You choose. That's all over scripture.

The real question is when a Christian should get involved and how much obligation they have and in what ways should they to respond to oppression. If you agree that more than charity is needed then it largely becomes a matter of how you define oppression. From what I can tell this is the crux because Beck doesn't appear to believe in social justice outside of charity. Which apparently means actions such as MLK Jr's fall outside of Beck's blessing.

From where are you getting he doesn't believe in civil rights?

he's against social justice (your quote I was responding to contained "justice" as well as "charity")

You do understand that "social justice" as described by Jim Wallis and others has everything to do with politics, right?
 
Free will is part of scripture. Jesus doesn't FORCE people to obey. You choose. That's all over scripture.
I'm still not seeing the connection between free will and "Beck believes you should be able to keep what you earned" (as you put it)

From where are you getting he doesn't believe in civil rights?
I didn't say that. I was relating King's belief that his struggle was part of his devotion to Christ through social justice. Beck has roundly denounced social justice in religous thought with only limited exceptions so far as I can tell.

On his radio and television shows, Beck suggested any church promoting "social justice" or "economic justice" merely was using code words for Nazism and communism.


"I beg you look for the words social justice or economic justice on your church Web site," he said. "If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. ... Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If they're going to Jeremiah Wright's church, yes!


"If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish," he said. "Go alert your bishop and tell them, 'Excuse me, are you down with this whole social justice thing?' If it's my church, I'm alerting the church authorities: 'Excuse me, what's this social justice thing?' And if they say, 'Yeah, we're all in on this social justice thing,' I am in the wrong place."

Later, Beck held up a picture of a swastika and one of a hammer and sickle, declaring again that "social justice" has the same philosophy as the Nazis and communists and that the phrase is a code word for both.

Stu Burguiere, executive producer at "The Glenn Beck Radio Program," sought to clarify Beck's comments today.

"Like most Americans, Glenn strongly supports and believes in 'social justice' when it is defined as 'good Christian charity,'" he said. "Glenn strongly opposes when Rev. Wright and other leaders use 'social justice' as a euphemism for their real intention -- redistribution of wealth."
ABC article


You do understand that "social justice" as described by Jim Wallis and others has everything to do with politics, right?
I'm really not sure how else to understand social justice unless it intermingles as necessary with politics to help the oppressed. Glenn Beck's idea of social justice as simple charity seems hopelessly weak to describe the notion that many Christian faiths adhere to.

I can't help but wonder if you really mean to talk about Liberation Theology which is far more specific than social justice.
 
There are people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who do, but I don't see it as being as much in the main stream of the ideology.

Right...except of course the only time you see any of them in church is...when? Oh yeah...right before elections. Which is hypocritical...and funny (at least to me) but not at all surprising that you only see it one way...
 
I'm still not seeing the connection between free will and "Beck believes you should be able to keep what you earned" (as you put it)

"Free will" allows you to freely do as you please accepting the consequences whatever they may be.

I didn't say that. I was relating King's belief that his struggle was part of his devotion to Christ through social justice. Beck has roundly denounced social justice in religous thought with only limited exceptions so far as I can tell.

You don't listen to Beck much, eh? Beck has roundly PROMOTED social justice in religoius thought (and denounced social justice in politics). EQUAL justice, not social justice is the duty of government. Equal justice being everyone is allowed the same opportunities to succeed. Social justice being "to each according to his needs".

I can't help but wonder if you really mean to talk about Liberation Theology which is far more specific than social justice.

Yes, it all goes together.
 
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Right...except of course the only time you see any of them in church is...when? Oh yeah...right before elections. Which is hypocritical...and funny (at least to me) but not at all surprising that you only see it one way...

I have no idea when those two do or do not go to church and I do not care what they do as I am opposed to a lot of their crybaby routines.

I think you are confusing regular people with the extremists in this case. I am pretty much a mainstream liberal when it comes to most social issues and I view those guys as annoying and troublesome as well. :shrug:
 
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I have no idea when those two do or do not go to church and I do not care what they do as I am opposed to a lot of their crybaby routines.

I think you are confusing regular people with the extremists in this case. I am pretty much a mainstream liberal when it comes to most social issues and I view those guys as annoying and troublesome as well. :shrug:

I guess I WAS speaking specifically the POLITICIANS that use religion for their own political aims. I have to say...In my years...maybe Im just lucky to have been in blessed congregations, but I dont think i have EVER heard political agenda spewed over the pulpit beyond the occasional reminder of upcoming elctions and polling locations...which considering the congregation has always been pretty much a nicety but never necessary.

Mind you I DO see a lot of catholic priests in California pressing for sanctuary and in opposition to enforcement of immigration laws...certainly a lot of pressing of social agendas in many of them, but usually those are from people with cameras in front of their faces.
 
I guess I WAS speaking specifically the POLITICIANS that use religion for their own political aims. I have to say...In my years...maybe Im just lucky to have been in blessed congregations, but I dont think i have EVER heard political agenda spewed over the pulpit beyond the occasional reminder of upcoming elctions and polling locations...which considering the congregation has always been pretty much a nicety but never necessary.

Mind you I DO see a lot of catholic priests in California pressing for sanctuary and in opposition to enforcement of immigration laws...certainly a lot of pressing of social agendas in many of them, but usually those are from people with cameras in front of their faces.

My pastor endorses tea parties, but I think its mainly because he was part of the generation that fought the godless communists and associates religion with capitalism (vs the godless communists), so I can see where he got his predjudice. However, overall he is a good guy who does a lot for the community, so I am not too upset by it.
 
My pastor endorses tea parties, but I think its mainly because he was part of the generation that fought the godless communists and associates religion with capitalism (vs the godless communists), so I can see where he got his predjudice. However, overall he is a good guy who does a lot for the community, so I am not too upset by it.

The head minister at my familys church was a bush supporter. Maybe it was because bush was a member
 
"Free will" allows you to freely do as you please accepting the consequences whatever they may be.
Yeah well free will allows you to murder, steal, etc... but I wouldn't interpret that as scriptural support for those actions. Please relate support for Beck's assertions around personal property and merit.
You don't listen to Beck much, eh?
Too much would probably do bad things for my blood pressure. I'm happy to check out something you think would specifically prove your point though.
Beck has roundly PROMOTED social justice in religoius thought (and denounced social justice in politics). EQUAL justice, not social justice is the duty of government. Equal justice being everyone is allowed the same opportunities to succeed. Social justice being "to each according to his needs".
Interesting assertion. Could you please reconcile that with encouraging people to leave church if it supports social justice? As I've pointed out, there are often political ramifications of social justice and they are actually very mainstream ideas.

It could be he's trying to make a very specific attack and he's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but so far I don't think that's the case.
 
my pastor has pointed out that we need to focus on why we choose to support what we do - are you doing it for the right reasons?

as for Beck, Christianity, and the forced redistribution of wealth:

the key word lacking from the 'and they held all things in common' is coercion.. those who really want us to legislate what Christianity urges (giving to the poor) need to question what their opinion will be on illegalizing homosexuality, multiple marriages, social security for people with relatives, and so forth. furthermore, they are going to have to explain why they don't let individuals pay whatever tax rate they prefer.

what does the New Testament say about entitlements?

2 Thess 3 : We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right.

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.


1 Tim 5: Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help. But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. Give the people these instructions, too, so that no one may be open to blame. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.


how about how taking care of the poor should be handled?

2 Cor 9: Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver
 
Yeah well free will allows you to murder, steal, etc... but I wouldn't interpret that as scriptural support for those actions. Please relate support for Beck's assertions around personal property and merit.

Yes, you can murder, steal....whatever you want. You also have to deal with the consequences of those actions. As Christians, you aren't supposed to do those things. You're supposed to strive to be a good person who walks in faith. Again, it's a CHOICE to do it.

Interesting assertion. Could you please reconcile that with encouraging people to leave church if it supports social justice? As I've pointed out, there are often political ramifications of social justice and they are actually very mainstream ideas.

Again, "social justice" as Jim Wallis and Faithful America are talking about is ONLY political. They are perverting scripture in order to gain power over people politically. So if you're church is perverting the Gospel and saying that Jesus wants the government to take over everything, that's not a church a true Christian should be in. Jesus wasn't about government anything. He was about personal choice and living faithfullly.

It's awfully interesting how the liberals and progressives who have been screaming about keeping church out of government for decades are now using Jesus Christ in order to create policy.
 
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Yes, you can murder, steal....whatever you want. You also have to deal with the consequences of those actions. As Christians, you aren't supposed to do those things. You're supposed to strive to be a good person who walks in faith. Again, it's a CHOICE to do it.
This is a great little talk about free will but I don't see your connection to Beck's beliefs on property.

Again, "social justice" as Jim Wallis and Faithful America are talking about is ONLY political. They are perverting scripture in order to gain power over people politically.
I think I'd like to see some specific quotes about Jim Wallis proving that is indeed his intent. I don't get the impression so far that his beliefs are as radical as liberation theology.

So if you're church is perverting the Gospel and saying that Jesus wants the government to take over everything, that's not a church a true Christian should be in. Jesus wasn't about government anything. He was about personal choice and living faithfullly.
I understand what you're saying here but that is more specific than advocating against social justice as anything but charity. Which is what Beck has done so far as I can tell.

It's awfully interesting how the liberals and progressives who have been screaming about keeping church out of government for decades are now using Jesus Christ in order to create policy.
I think you're actually seeing a point of disagreement in the left. The religious left has always had disagreements with the secular humanists even if they share some common ground.

It's kind of like how libertarians oppose legislating morality but wind up voting for the same guy that's backed by the Christian Coalition.
 
as for Beck, Christianity, and the forced redistribution of wealth:
My point so far, and I would say the gist of this thread has been that intentionally or not, Beck has actually attacked a larger segment of religion than those intent on creating a communist state.

what does the New Testament say about entitlements?

2 Thess 3 : We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
Just to play devil's advocate here, since I don't subscribe to Liberation Theology, but this call to work here is not that different from Karl Marx's slogan "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

how about how taking care of the poor should be handled?

2 Cor 9: Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver
I won't attempt to defend compulsion even for argument's sake.

But I thought I would throw this in from the previous chapter:
Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need.

It seems to me that Communism and Christianity have a lot of agreement about the ends just not the means.
 
If you're interested in Jim Wallis and Faithful America, go to their sites.

Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace

Faithful America
You're going to have to be a little more specific than pointing to their website home pages. Did you read any of them? Point something out if you feel like it should be part of the discussion.
Thanks for this link.

He basically tries to redefine social justice to suit his purposes. Well that's um...handy. I suppose I can define gray to actually mean black if I like to, but it's kind of an odd defense.

Apparently supporting public education is also supporting Marxism. Who knew?

Basically a whole host of programs that exist in America: food stamps, welfare, social security are all Marxist. Have we been a communist country since the 30's? I don't think so. Which is why I would take any attempt by Glen to associate social justice with communism with a large grain of salt.
 
No, he's defining social justice as Jim Wallis and crew is defining it. Both of the sites are full of politics. Not hard to navigate.
 
No, he's defining social justice as Jim Wallis and crew is defining it. Both of the sites are full of politics. Not hard to navigate.
Lol, how would you know? As far as I can tell they aren't that different from the Catholic church in that regard.

BTW, here's my link to prove that everything Beck says is untrue: Wikipedia

It's pretty easy to navigate too ;)
 
Lol, how would you know? As far as I can tell they aren't that different from the Catholic church in that regard.

BTW, here's my link to prove that everything Beck says is untrue: Wikipedia

It's pretty easy to navigate too ;)

If the Catholic church is calling for numerous government policies that redistribute the wealth and require that individual freedoms should be limited in order to help those less fortunate or those unwilling to work, then I would say you're right. I'm not a Catholic so I'm not aware of their goals.

I'm so glad you actually took the time to understand what Jim Wallis thinks. Your wikipedia comment tells me you didn't do much research at all. Ta ta.
 
I'm so glad you actually took the time to understand what Jim Wallis thinks. Your wikipedia comment tells me you didn't do much research at all. Ta ta.
You're the one who made suppositions about Jim Wallis and didn't back it up when I asked. It's not my responsibility to disprove your assertions when you haven't presented any evidence. If you don't want to research or back up your opinions that's fine, but don't pretend you've done otherwise.
 
You're the one who made suppositions about Jim Wallis and didn't back it up when I asked. It's not my responsibility to disprove your assertions when you haven't presented any evidence. If you don't want to research or back up your opinions that's fine, but don't pretend you've done otherwise.

I have done my research. I gave you the tools and you don't seem to want to use them. *shrug*
 
All that "Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle" thing, is that the word of God or just some opinion from some socialist liberal who somehow got his opinion in the bible?

Enquiring minds want to know.
 
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