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School Kids Chant: "I Am An Obama Scholar"

Redress said:
No, but it's a funny thing...
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Well then laugh about it :2wave:
I would laugh too if I was reading this 2 years ago :lol:
 
Redress said:
You misunderstood the video in OP + you post some other video = you are trying to hide the fact you did not understand the first video.
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My perception is: the underlying motivation and intent are the same in both videos.
 
No big deal?


I would suggest it would be a much larger deal if your little johnny came home and said your teacher was having you sing about a president or anyone in such a manner.
 
MrVicchio said:


RealClearPolitics - Video - School Kids Chant: "I Am An Obama Scholar"

Cult of personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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What is wrong with people? :shrug: I don't get the complaints from things like this - at all - and I even loath Obama.
I see students saying "I can be anything I want to be. A teacher, a lawyer, a firefighter, a judge, a president, anything . . . if my mind can see it and my heart can believe it. . . I know I can achieve it"

What's WRONG with that?

So what - their role model is our first black president. Well, damnit, someone's gotta change something. :shrug: What's your solution to their issues in life? They can't change their skin color. They can't just stand up and convince Mom and Dad to move to a better city or put them in a better school. The only way they can change their life or do better in school is if they *want* to do it.

Hey - you could give them money and see what that does! But that's controversial.
So this is in stark contrast to that - and it's still controversial?

WTF! Don't you WANT them to have an example? To HAVE someone to look up to? A GOAL in life of SOME type? SOMETHING!
He might not be the greatest president but he's a damn good role model.
I challenge you to come up with a better way to energize and get possibly some very troubled KIDS heading in the right direction. I think that there's nothing you can think of that would be more meaningful to them and have a more positive and life-altering impact.
 
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I used to ask students who their role models were. I became discouraged when they said themselves. They were their own role models. There is nothing wrong in admiring a president or a world leader. Beats the hell out Brittney Spears.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
What is wrong with people? :shrug: I don't get the complaints from things like this - at all - and I even loath Obama.
I see students saying "I can be anything I want to be. A teacher, a lawyer, a firefighter, a judge, a president, anything . . . if my mind can see it and my heart can believe it. . . I know I can achieve it"

What's WRONG with that?
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There's nothing necessarily wrong with hero worship. However, when compiling this with other incidents it's framed and percieved as teachers telling children to hero worship. This video is not, on it's face, showing that but when viewed with the rest of the video's of songs being taught to kids all over the country praising Obama by name. My problem is not with hero worship but with indocrination of kids at an early age to be taught who to look up to by teachers who should be teaching HOW to be a hero not who to emulate.

Aunt Spiker said:
The second part is I don't hate or detest Obama. I just don't like everything he stands for or believes in. As a person he's probably a great guy, loving husband, doting father and responsible member of society.
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So turn it on it's head. Let's say this was happening all over the country and it was G.W. Bush who teachers are influencing and indoctrinating kids to emulate. Still perfectly fine with it? If so... great! If not... that's where I am. I don't care WHO it is, it has no business being pushed on kids in this way.

Aunt Spiker said:
So what - their role model is our first black president. Well, damnit, someone's gotta change something. :shrug: What's your solution to their issues in life? They can't change their skin color. They can't just stand up and convince Mom and Dad to move to a better city or put them in a better school. The only way they can change their life or do better in school is if they *want* to do it.
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School isn't there to provide solutions to their issues in life. School is there to provide a basis in learning. Skin color and a black president are irrelevant.

Aunt Spiker said:
Hey - you could give them money and see what that does! But that's controversial.
So this is in stark contrast to that - and it's still controversial?
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Giving money is not even the same subject as indoctrination. No clue what your point is - please clarify.

Aunt Spiker said:
WTF! Don't you WANT them to have an example? To HAVE someone to look up to? A GOAL in life of SOME type? SOMETHING!
He might not be the greatest president but he's a damn good role model.
I challenge you to come up with a better way to energize and get possibly some very troubled KIDS heading in the right direction. I think that there's nothing you can think of that would be more meaningful to them and have a more positive and life-altering impact.
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How about this: Do the right thing. Show them how to apply what they learn to better themselves and their life. Teach them how to think for themselves... If hero worship is the preferred method, there are SO many other examples of greatness, of a role model. Since you choose only black Americans, let's look at some other "hero's:"

Clarence Thomas
Condoleeza Rice
Colin Powell

Why aren't these three in the mix?
 
Ockham said:
There's nothing necessarily wrong with hero worship. However, when compiling this with other incidents it's framed and percieved as teachers telling children to hero worship. This video is not, on it's face, showing that but when viewed with the rest of the video's of songs being taught to kids all over the country praising Obama by name. My problem is not with hero worship but with indocrination of kids at an early age to be taught who to look up to by teachers who should be teaching HOW to be a hero not who to emulate.

So turn it on it's head. Let's say this was happening all over the country and it was G.W. Bush who teachers are influencing and indoctrinating kids to emulate. Still perfectly fine with it? If so... great! If not... that's where I am. I don't care WHO it is, it has no business being pushed on kids in this way.

School isn't there to provide solutions to their issues in life. School is there to provide a basis in learning. Skin color and a black president are irrelevant.

Giving money is not even the same subject as indoctrination. No clue what your point is - please clarify.

How about this: Do the right thing. Show them how to apply what they learn to better themselves and their life. Teach them how to think for themselves... If hero worship is the preferred method, there are SO many other examples of greatness, of a role model. Since you choose only black Americans, let's look at some other "hero's:"

Clarence Thomas
Condoleeza Rice
Colin Powell

Why aren't these three in the mix?
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Obviously this is a matter of perception and this bridge is not going to be crossed. Personally, I don't even see indoctrination, unless I use a very loose definition of the word. I just adults trying to motivate kids to do well in life. As far as which person they mention, the president is currently the most famous and the most likely pick.

Ultimately though, you mention teaching kids to do the right thing, etc. Emulation is a common form of learning. When I got out of the shower this morning, my two yearold daugher was helping my wife "cook" (even though she was mostly just getting in the way). This is something people naturally do and if the mechanism exists and it helps people be better, than we should use it!
 
Ockham said:
There's nothing necessarily wrong with hero worship. However, when compiling this with other incidents it's framed and percieved as teachers telling children to hero worship. This video is not, on it's face, showing that but when viewed with the rest of the video's of songs being taught to kids all over the country praising Obama by name. My problem is not with hero worship but with indocrination of kids at an early age to be taught who to look up to by teachers who should be teaching HOW to be a hero not who to emulate.
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Ok - I understand *not* wanting to brainwash kids with the whole 'indoctrination' thing . . . I get that. There are other incidences in which I feel that your view on this SHOULD be applied - and school kids looking up to him is NOT it.

So turn it on it's head. Let's say this was happening all over the country and it was G.W. Bush who teachers are influencing and indoctrinating kids to emulate. Still perfectly fine with it? If so... great! If not... that's where I am. I don't care WHO it is, it has no business being pushed on kids in this way.
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The quote that this is in response to I didn't write - who did?
I don't support Bush, either, but why do you think it would be so bad for a kid to look up to him, too? I fail to see the problem - if that "looking up to him" would further them in school and in life is it really such a horrid thing? Remember - they're not emulating every thing Obama says and does in his presidency and life. They're using his success as a positive example that "I can do that if I want . . . I can do anything that I put my mind to"
My oldest son is dealing with cultural and race identity issues and if him looking up to Obama or Bush would help him with that and keep him from feeling like the odd-man out then I'm all forth it.

School isn't there to provide solutions to their issues in life. School is there to provide a basis in learning. Skin color and a black president are irrelevant.
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Well you know what - news flash - it IS. Students spend MORE time in school than they do awake at HOME and hanging out with their friends. Whether you like it or not it IS a main source of cultural, social and educational influence in their lives. Everything they need to know they will learn HERE. Education isn't JUST 123's and ABC's - education is life, how to live it and how to cope with the world.

If you believe that so strongly then go tell that to these kids.
Tell them "school isn't here to fix your problems" and "school is only here to provide you a basis in learning." and "skin color and a black president are irrelevant"
Tell that to them and totally **** up their focus and **** up a direction that some of them have - which they might not have had before.

You think it's "indoctrination" and it's really just trying to find *some ONE thing* that will get just a handful of these kids off the streets, out of trouble, into class and headed in teh right direction in life.
I'll tell you what's indoctrination = LA schools taking their students into Arizona to protest Arizona's SB1070 . . see the huge difference, there?

Odds are - for some of these students - their time in school is the only time at which they're influenced by something that's socially acceptable, will be positive in their life, or is important rather than video games and loitering.

Giving money is not even the same subject as indoctrination. No clue what your point is - please clarify.
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Don't play the "I don't know what you're referring to" card. You got my point.
"Looking up to the president as a role model in order to do good in school" VS.
"Being paid to do well in school with a bi weekly paycheck based on attendence or books read."

Of these two things which one do you think would be MORE meaningful and MORE long term - more beneficial and likely something that might actually change their lives FOREVER. Getting paid some cash only lasts as long as the cash is there - getting someone to believe that there's more to them then just their skin color is priceless. . . and a white person just can't convince a black kid to feel differently. Sorry - but we don't have that kind of sway.

How about this: Do the right thing. Show them how to apply what they learn to better themselves and their life. Teach them how to think for themselves... If hero worship is the preferred method, there are SO many other examples of greatness, of a role model. Since you choose only black Americans, let's look at some other "hero's:"
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"Do the right thing - show them how to apply . . ."
You have to get them to pay attention FIRST in order to LEARN . . . and then you can teach them how to apply it . . . and then you can tell them that they should think for theirselves.
If Obama as a role model gets them to want to come to school, again, is it REALLY that bad?

Clarence Thomas
Condoleeza Rice
Colin Powell

Why aren't these three in the mix?
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Who says they aren't?
When I took a series of cultural influence courses in school (before Obama was even "known") these WERE the three main influences.

They finally have a role model who's in politics - who's respected and has strong, positive presence in their lives and you're reply is "why don't they look up to Condoleeza Rice" ??? Gee - They'd still be emulating and worshiping Ice-T, P-Diddy and the freaking Wu-Tang-Clan if you had your way :shrug:
Would that matter to you, anyway? No, it wouldn't. Even if they looked up to every successful political minority out there - as long as it's political, to you, it's unacceptable because it equals indoctrination.

Now - kowtow to your paranoia or continue my support of kids lookign up to a successful political figure instead of a rapist, raper, or thug? Gee - I think my feelings are obvious as to what I consider to be a reasonable role model and what I don't.

Sorry that their scope of black role models who are successful doesn't include every black out there :shrug: But when it comes to giving kids a new direction in life you do what you can do - and be thrilled when something works.
 
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Gipper said:
See, that's the only part of it I don't like. Public school indoctrination is going to create the next generation of welfare losers.

Enjoy community college.
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Without getting too far off topic, could you clarify what you mean by 'enjoy community college'
 
2 years after we get a new president, many of those kids won't even know who Obama is...
Ever watch Jay Leno out "jaywalking"?
 
Australianlibertarian said:
Or maybe people are concerned that schools are teaching kids in an un-objective manner. Tell me, since when has "I am a <insert president name> scholar" formed a necessary part of a child's curriculum?
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All joking aside, I don't have an issue with the central idea of the message that if you put your mind to something, you can achieve it. However, if political ideals are attached they are out of place.
 
American said:
All joking aside, I don't have an issue with the central idea of the message that if you put your mind to something, you can achieve it. However, if political ideals are attached they are out of place.
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Ignoring the Godwin, where in the OP video do the kids espouse a political ideal? Minute and Second mark please.
 
megaprogman said:
Ultimately though, you mention teaching kids to do the right thing, etc. Emulation is a common form of learning. When I got out of the shower this morning, my two yearold daugher was helping my wife "cook" (even though she was mostly just getting in the way). This is something people naturally do and if the mechanism exists and it helps people be better, than we should use it!
Click to expand...

Your daughter emulating your wife is exactly how growing up is supposed to be (in a perfect world). At very young ages we all emulate the adults around us for good or bad especially at 2 years old. Once we get to 5-12 years old though, we're mostly at school and our teachers play a very important part in how we grow up. If those teachers decided to use The Son of Sam for example (outrageous but I meant it that way) and indoctrinated those children into viewing the Son of Sam as a role model to emulate would kids necessarily know that was a bad thing? Of course not, so we (society) trust our teachers to be teaching, not indoctrinating.

Yes perception has a lot to do with it, but I don't want a Republican, Libertarian or Democrat to have small children make up songs about them. They should be, in my opinion, learning a structure to make up their own minds as to who they admire --- not be told who to admire or emulate.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
The quote that this is in response to I didn't write - who did?
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I misplaced the quote.

Aunt Spiker said:
I don't support Bush, either, but why do you think it would be so bad for a kid to look up to him, too?
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I have a problem with schools or teachers TELLING kids who to look up to. If they do it on their own, that's fine.

Aunt Spiker said:
Well you know what - news flash - it IS.
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Than this is an indication of a problem in parenting and a failure in school curicula. Because kids spend more time at school than at home does NOT excuse mommy and daddy or give teachers a by proxy parenting role.


Aunt Spiker said:
Students spend MORE time in school than they do awake at HOME and hanging out with their friends. Whether you like it or not it IS a main source of cultural, social and educational influence in their lives. Everything they need to know they will learn HERE. Education isn't JUST 123's and ABC's - education is life, how to live it and how to cope with the world.
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Education can take many forms, teachers should and must keep to 123's and ABC's. Kids certainly learn social, cultural and sexual norms simply by being with other kids. School is NOT teaching how to cope with the world and if it is, I think you'd then agree, part of that is through indoctrination.


Aunt Spiker said:
If you believe that so strongly then go tell that to these kids.
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Better yet, I tell my own school board. Don't know where you live but where I live - our K-6 does not provide ready made role models nor create songs about popular people. They're taught basics. I've already shared my views with many at the school and I've yet to recieve much push back - wether or not that's out of politeness or due to agreement I have no idea.


Aunt Spiker said:
Tell them "school isn't here to fix your problems" and "school is only here to provide you a basis in learning." and "skin color and a black president are irrelevant"
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I'll make sure to the next time I'm up there. What's the probleem with letting kids formulate their own hero's? And yes, schools do not fix your problems and the skin color of a President IS in fact, irrelevant. White or Black it makes no difference - they're the President.


Aunt Spiker said:
You think it's "indoctrination" and it's really just trying to find *some ONE thing* that will get just a handful of these kids off the streets, out of trouble, into class and headed in teh right direction in life.
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There are many things that can help. Parents, friends, family, police, social groups, church, government programs... There are many "ONE things" and school indoctrination shouldn't be one of them. Remember, indoctrination isn't one on one, it's group think.



Aunt Spiker said:
I'll tell you what's indoctrination = LA schools taking their students into Arizona to protest Arizona's SB1070 . . see the huge difference, there?
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Yes I agree, and no I don't see the difference. How old are the LA students? How old are the mmm mmm mm kids? And those kids by the way, live within 8 miles of me, but are not in my school district.



Aunt Spiker said:
Don't play the "I don't know what you're referring to" card. You got my point.
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First, I don't play - so clarify. If I knew what you meant I would respond to it.

Aunt Spiker said:
"Looking up to the president as a role model in order to do good in school" VS.
"Being paid to do well in school with a bi weekly paycheck based on attendence or books read."
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I see little value in either scenario. Let kids learn and make up their own minds who they like, admire and want to emulate.


Aunt Spiker said:
"Do the right thing - show them how to apply . . ."
You have to get them to pay attention FIRST in order to LEARN . . . and then you can teach them how to apply it . . . and then you can tell them that they should think for theirselves.
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And indoctrination nor hero worship helps them pay attention...


Aunt Spiker said:
If Obama as a role model gets them to want to come to school, again, is it REALLY that bad?
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If the kid comes up with it themselves, no. If they're told or taught to sing the praises of a specific person as a group at a young age before they know or can formulate their own opinions about who they admire - yes, it's REALLY that bad.


Aunt Spiker said:
They finally have a role model who's in politics - who's respected and has strong, positive presence in their lives and you're reply is "why don't they look up to Condoleeza Rice" ??? Gee - They'd still be emulating and worshiping Ice-T, P-Diddy and the freaking Wu-Tang-Clan if you had your way
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You're seriously comparing Condoleeza Rice with Ice-T, P-Diddy and the Wu-Tang-Clan?


Aunt Spiker said:
Would that matter to you, anyway? No, it wouldn't. Even if they looked up to every successful political minority out there - as long as it's political, to you, it's unacceptable because it equals indoctrination.
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Any indoctrination at all, political or not is unacceptable. Is this getting through or will I be required to answer another 100 lines of the same thing over and over?


Aunt Spiker said:
Now - kowtow to your paranoia or continue my support of kids lookign up to a successful political figure instead of a rapist, raper, or thug? Gee - I think my feelings are obvious as to what I consider to be a reasonable role model and what I don't.
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Please... the ad hominem is boring.


Aunt Spiker said:
Sorry that their scope of black role models who are successful doesn't include every black out there :shrug: But when it comes to giving kids a new direction in life you do what you can do - and be thrilled when something works.
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Sorry you can't be honest with yourself nor can you see the trees through the forest. Discussing this with you is like discussing evolution with an evangalist. Apparently you have some axe to grind or perhaps you were or are an educator of some sort and this is a preferred method of teaching? Either way, here's the bottom line:

No teacher, should be indoctrinating ANY kids, for ANY reason in ANY school. School is there to teach, not help kids "cope with life". Get it? You're view of education is akin to brainwashing. It's dangerous, irresponsible and negligent. Were you a teacher where my child went to school I'd all possible means to have you removed.

You want to continue or have the last word - go for it. I think you know where I stand on the issue. Have a nice day! :wink:
 
Ockham said:
Your daughter emulating your wife is exactly how growing up is supposed to be (in a perfect world). At very young ages we all emulate the adults around us for good or bad especially at 2 years old. Once we get to 5-12 years old though, we're mostly at school and our teachers play a very important part in how we grow up. If those teachers decided to use The Son of Sam for example (outrageous but I meant it that way) and indoctrinated those children into viewing the Son of Sam as a role model to emulate would kids necessarily know that was a bad thing? Of course not, so we (society) trust our teachers to be teaching, not indoctrinating.

Yes perception has a lot to do with it, but I don't want a Republican, Libertarian or Democrat to have small children make up songs about them. They should be, in my opinion, learning a structure to make up their own minds as to who they admire --- not be told who to admire or emulate.
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They may or may not regardless of what you want. The point is, and the question has bene asked, where is the political indoctrination? Most seem ok with the message here, so exactly where is the problem areas?
 
What does "I'm a Obama scholar" mean?

I'd suggest it means they learned alot about Obama and the Office of the President.
 
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:shrug: I see things differently - I feel that *through* school is the only way that some kids are exposed to broader horizons and a new thought process - if their family is crap, friends are wash, and everyone else in their life is a letdown . . . a teacher at school is all they have.
 
winston53660 said:
What does "I'm a Obama scholar" mean?

I'd suggest it means they learned alot Obama and the Office of the President.
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It means you're taking his meassage of needing an education to heart. Learning is not political to my knowledge, unless you're trying to argue only liberals are educated. I don't believe that, do you?
 
Boo Radley said:
It means you're taking his meassage of needing an education to heart. Learning is not political to my knowledge, unless you're trying to argue only liberals are educated. I don't believe that, do you?
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They could sing I'm a Nixon scholar for all I care. I think a much bigger deal is being made out this than need be.
 
Boo Radley said:
It means you're taking his meassage of needing an education to heart. Learning is not political to my knowledge, unless you're trying to argue only liberals are educated. I don't believe that, do you?
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This is what I think the intent was. I think it was worded poorly, and has become a big deal to a few people and now taking away from a very positive overall message.
 
Redress said:
This is what I think the intent was. I think it was worded poorly, and has become a big deal to a few people and now taking away from a very positive overall message.
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And we didn't used to make these thinngs into a big deal. Leaders were used to inspire, and linked to such positive efforts. I think today people are just too willing to be silly and try to make everything something it isn't.
 
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