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Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

I hope Egypt is not falling off the wagon with Turkey.
 
Obviously this now proves he is Muslim and the impeachment should begin. I will get the pitchforks and the mob from the Northeast and we will meet everyone in D.C.

Well after today's soccer games.
 
SO WHAT IF HE IS ????
Americans has freedom of religion, Yes or No ????
Watch his action not his words !!!!
BY THE WAY..... I don' believe a word of this statement, He said, She said, They said, We Said....
Next please.... What else is new ????

You were just in another thread citing as "fact" a statement President Bush allegedly made to a Palestinian official. A little consitancy please.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Alright, since the OP of this thread in his commentary clearly made it less about discussing what the Egyptian politician said and more about going "OBAMA'S A MUSLIM!" you know where this belongs.


-EDIT-​

Moderator's Warning:
On second review, since the thread has been moving towards an actual discussion whether than "Obama is a secret muslim" I'm going to leave it in news 2.0 for now. If it starts verging into simply focusing on the conspiracy theory aspect of it though it will be moved to the appropriate forum.
 
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So we have a blog reporting that Obama told the Egyptian Foreign minister(whose name he misspelled) that Obama is a Muslim. A quick search shows that the only reports on this are from the blog. No confirmation whatsoever except a very biased blog. So either we believe people on faith for no reason in a story that makes no sense, or we look at the evidence and say that it is highly improbable.

It is very unlikely Obama is Muslim. It's very unlikely that Obama told the Egyptian Minster he is Muslim. Even if those two unlikely things where true, it has no effect on anything. It's almost embarrassing that some people in the wold are this gullible. Looking at the comments on the blog site make me fear for the future of humanity, that there really are that many stupid people.
 
The red in our quote could be changed from "is" to "was". They're changing, from the top down.

Any sources for that that hold up water?

Also, if Turks are so tolerant, why do the Polizei dare not to go into the Turkish Ghetto's in Berlin?

I know, what I say won't impress you, because you apparently know much more about Germany than any German does, and more than I do, although I've been living here for decades ...

But for what it's worth, as a Berlin citizen, I want to tell you that I think this statement hardly is true. First, there is no thing as a "Turkish Ghetto" in Berlin. You have a few quarters where the number of Turkish-stemming migrants is higher than in others, and in some of these places, Turkish shops and businesses seem to dominate the streetscape. Yet, they are hardly "ghettos". There are also still a large number of native Germans living in these quarters. Many of them are even famous quarters for students and young Germans with alternative lifestyle, and "hip" cafés, alternative clubs and vivid youth cuture is just as prominent there, as Turkish life.

Then, I have never (and I really mean: absolutely never, not one single time) heard that "German policement are afraid" of going to these places. On the contrary, if at all, there are complains that there is too much crime there and the police has to go there way too often (and actually does it). Maybe you are confusing Berlin in Germany with some other place you've heard about. I can't speak for the situation in Paris, France, for example, and I was told the "ghettoization" is much, much worse there than here in Berlin.

I want to assure you, with my best knowledge and first hand experience, the situation in Berlin is by far not as bad as some hysterics claim it is. I've often been even to those quarters which have a bad reputation and crime problems, also at night (between 12 and 2am), and while I met many young people (both migrants and natives) passing by, I have never been threatened, attacked or robbed. (Although once, a guy offered to sell me weed.) Now I don't know that first hand, but I think the degree of "ghetthoization" and subsequent problems with general and gang violence is much worse in many American metropolitan regions (at least that's what you hear. Not sure if it's true).

Why is there Sharia law being carried out in these ghettos, ...

LOL, that would be new to me. ;)

I can assure you, Sharia law is not carried out anywhere in Germany.

...girls murdered by their families because they became westernized?

That sometimes happens, and it is indeed one of the problems that still need to be solved, when it comes to integration of migrants.

But when you look deeper into the issue, you will find that 1) this does not happen by far that often that is allows generalizations about Muslim immigrants in general (just like occasional murders on abortion doctors, or assaults on homosexuals doesn't allow the conclusion that Christians in general support these actions), and 2) these actions are strictly opposed on condemned by a majority of immigrants as well. Also, you will find that 3) that these "honor killings" have not much to do with Muslim religion, and is indeed most strictly opposed by those Muslims who are most religious, because it's a direct violation of Quranic rules. It's rather a problem of a backwards, pre-modern patriarchalistic tradition prevalent among many immigrants, which they don't have because of their religion, but despite it.

This backward authoritarian tradition of many immigrants (who often happen to be Muslim) indeed is a problem that does exist and needs to be solved. That's why we need dialogue and clear rules. This debate already exists and there are many participants, including religious Muslims who fight think kind of tradition based on their religious believes (much like religious Muslim clerics are strong fighters against the tradition of female mutilation in countries like Egypt, for example).

Look, I understand where you are coming from, and that you are suspicious towards Muslims and Islam. That's normal. People tend to generalize and fear what they don't know. But I think you are jumping way too quickly to way too broad assumptions and conclusions. You should take the time, just as I did, to address Muslim immigrants here (you also find many online, if none are living in your environment), to talk with them about these problems, to hear their opinions. Like this, you learn to know them better and you will see that "the Muslims" or "the Muslim immigrants" are by far not such a homogenous block as you seem to think it is, that there are very significant differences between subgroups, that they too have a variety of opinions and attitudes towards their religion.

You really should take this effort.

Why do they not assimilate if they are so open? After so many years... and it isn't getting better.
Is it?

What makes you think "they" don't do that?

In fact, two of my friends are children of Muslim immigrants and they couldn't be more assimilated (one of them is atheist, the other Muslim, but rather secular). So apparently, some of them do.

But you are right, it's true that some of them do not, or many don't do it enough, and that is indeed a problem. It's also not just a cultural problem, but (maybe even moreso) a social problem. Lack of willingness or capacity to adoption on the side of immigrants plays just as much a role here, as racism and a lack of providing opportunities from the side of natives does. These problems need to be soberly discussed, and I agree they must not be ignored. But this debate must be remain respectful, and one-sidedly attaching blame to one side and painting it with a broad brush of resentment won't help matters (it even aggravates the problem).

I'll say it's not all Turks... I have met some nice folks, and they make one hell of a good Doener.
Scharf bitte.

That's the right attitude! ;)
 
Would you agree that in most of these Islamic states, there is little or no separation of government and religion?

You point to very good questions.

I'd say that in most of them, there is indeed less separation of government and religion (although in most of them, clerics have only few to say in the government). Generally, religion plays a more important role in these societies in general, than it does in the West (some states in the American south may be an exception, though :p ), so it necessarily has a stronger influence on politics.

That maybe results in the problem that these societies don't meet our standards of a free, democratic society. But do they really need to? I don't think they are necessarily more aggressive or expansionist towards other states.

If so, does it become the responsibilty of their governments to "reign in" these extremist groups? If so, how can we separate the two?

Extremist Muslim groups, while they do exist in all Muslim countries, are hardly mainstream. Often, there is even strong opposition by mainstream clerics against them. That's why I fail to see how the problem of the existence of these groups necessarily differs fundamentally from the existence of extremist groups in Western societies (unless, of course, such radical or extremist groups have a chance of getting in power in the respective country).

Egypt has the "Muslim Brotherhood". It's opposed by mainstream Islam, most Egyptians don't sympathize with them, and the government even oppresses them. So as long as they are nowhere close to take power, why should this be anymore of a problem for us than, say, fascist or neo-Nazi groups in European countries, or communist parties?
 
The OP reeks of propaganda and lies. First of all, Obama's father was an ex Muslim that became an atheist. If Obama is a Muslim then he is a terrible on at that. What Muslim goes to a church that professes Christianity? What Muslim says he's a Christian and doesn't attend mosque services?
 
The OP reeks of propaganda and lies. First of all, Obama's father was an ex Muslim that became an atheist. If Obama is a Muslim then he is a terrible on at that. What Muslim goes to a church that professes Christianity? What Muslim says he's a Christian and doesn't attend mosque services?

One that is trying to turn the U.S.A into a Muslim country obviously.
 
So we have a blog reporting that Obama told the Egyptian Foreign minister(whose name he misspelled) that Obama is a Muslim. A quick search shows that the only reports on this are from the blog. No confirmation whatsoever except a very biased blog. So either we believe people on faith for no reason in a story that makes no sense, or we look at the evidence and say that it is highly improbable.

It is very unlikely Obama is Muslim. It's very unlikely that Obama told the Egyptian Minster he is Muslim. Even if those two unlikely things where true, it has no effect on anything. It's almost embarrassing that some people in the wold are this gullible. Looking at the comments on the blog site make me fear for the future of humanity, that there really are that many stupid people.

It may apparently be unlikely to some that he is a Muslim, but with reference to his Foreign Policy which (at least to ME) favors Muslim States.
 
Why? What are you and everyone else who's opposed to this President so afraid of? If he is a true Muslim then he will advocate a message of peace.

It means another lie to the voters. He ran as a Christian
 
It means that they've been lieing about it, all along. He lied, because he knew there was no way in hell he would get elected, if he admitted he was a Muslim.

In the wake of 9/11 I can't say I blame him. But again I say that since it is Muslim extremist who are causing this country so much trouble abroad, wouldn't it make more sense to have someone who knows their core believe system and understand where said beliefs are being distorted and can use their religious teachings to turn things around?


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

(Okay...poor analogy, but the point is I'd rather have someone in office who knows these religious wackos inside and out and can reason with them and probably get them to stand down than someone who only acts to antagonize them and make matters worse.)
 
It means another lie to the voters. He ran as a Christian

Okay, so he perhaps was disengenuous about his religious preference. I can understand why some who believe personal integrity is important at all levels where a person's charactor is concerned. But I can also understand how ANYONE running for public office in a post-9/11 world in the U.S. wouldn't stand a chance of being elected even to dog catcher if the public knew his or her religious preference was Muslim. The way I see it, if we as a nation of laws who claim to value our freedoms are true to said freedoms under the law, it really shouldn't matter what a person's religious preference may be. We should be more concerned with what that person does while holding office, not so much what his religious preference might be. To date, I see no evidence to support the notion of fear and mistrust that many have placed on this President.

No laws have been written that take away your freedoms.

No laws have been written that subvert the government's ability to do it's job at all levels - legistlative, executive or judicial.

Until such becomes evident, I'm fine with letting the man who the majority of American elected to the highest office in the land do his job.
 
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And if it proves to be true, who will be shocked? Anyone? Anyone? Any takers? :wow:

I would be, because I believe he's an atheist, raised by atheists (his mother and grandparents).
He says so in his autobiography, and that was written and published when he was young, before he had any presidential aspirations.
He describes meeting a christian minister/community leader while working as a community organizer in Chicago, and attending his church because it was necessary to do so, for his work. It was one of the centers of the community.
He describes conversations with this minister about religious faith, and he describes sitting in church not feeling anything, not feeling there was a God, and being sad that he didn't feel there was, but glad for being able to be part of the community.

He also describes attending a Muslim school briefly as a child in Jakarta, while his mother was married to Lolo Soetoro. He also attended a Catholic school there for a period of time.
He describes misbehaving and getting in trouble at both, and not being much influenced by either one.
If he had been, his mother probably would've pulled him out, seeing as how she was an intellectual and an atheist herself.
Despite these adventures, he describes, at length, a secular childhood in which religion of any sort was not a factor. Since he only met his dad once, when the man came for a 2 week visit and stayed with Barack's grandparents in their apartment, I do not believe his father's religion influenced him, and I don't think his father was a Muslim anyhow. If he was, it was only nominally, in name only, much the same way Barack is a "Christian".


I do think that when Obama visits his Kenyan relatives, he may participate in traditional Islamic stuff, much the way he attended Rev Wright's church and participated there, because it was necessary to his work in the community. It's his way of being close to people he cares about.
I don't see this as being deceptive or hypocritical, I see it as being polite.

I do not think Obama is a man who has any innate religious faith.
I think he's a man who sees the value of religion- all religions- to others, and understands that in order to be close to others, he needs to participate in their various religious rituals.
He understands that religion can be a great force for good, under the best of circumstances, and can bring people together.
 
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This story is so full of it but amazing enought many bite at the hook.

Americans have become so gullible. It is just like the current story that Sarah Palin had breast implants which is baloney. I can't stand Palin but really don't believe she ran out and got boob enhancement. She was already adequate and it just doesn't add up but many swallowed the hook.

Those who fell for the girl with backwards "B" scarved on her face and fell for the Palin boob story will find good reading in this BS.
 
And for what it's worth, I think he could've said something like this, which was misunderstood and/or twisted- deliberately or inadvertently- to sound rather sinister.

I can imagine him privately telling the Egyptian Minister something to the effect of, "My father and stepfather were Muslims, my half brothers in Kenya are Muslims, I'm not anti-Muslim, I'm sympathetic toward Muslims."

He may or may not have. :shrug:
We'll never know, unless video or tape recordings come out.
I'm sure he likes Muslims just as well as he likes every other religion, which makes him far different from any other president we've ever had.
He recognizes religion as a positive force, and he also recognizes that every religion harbors dangerous extremists who are our enemies, and that we must all- all religions- join together to combat them.

No good has come, will come, or can possibly come of making our Muslim allies believe the US is anti-Islamic.
We're not. At least, we're not supposed to be.
I had hoped that Obama's background would help him reach across some of these cultural/religions barriers in a way no other president has been able to do, and I think he's trying to do that.
 
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I can't believe some are so delusional they would buy an absurd conspiracy theory like Obama is Muslim with a hidden agenda and has deliberately been pretending to be Christian to fulfil it. Seriously, folks. Both that Bush himself is responsible for 9/11 and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are more credible. The paranoia required to buy that points to mental illness.
 
I can't believe some are so delusional they would buy an absurd conspiracy theory like Obama is Muslim with a hidden agenda and has deliberately been pretending to be Christian to fulfil it. Seriously, folks. Both that Bush himself is responsible for 9/11 and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are more credible. The paranoia required to buy that points to mental illness.

Oh, so close to avoiding disclosing the fact that you're a pseudo truther.
Believing Bush could somehow have been directly responsible for 9/11 falls under what you referred to as "mental illness."

You better readjust you're foil hat, don't want to miss any signals from the mother ship...
 
Oh, so close to avoiding disclosing the fact that you're a pseudo truther.
Believing Bush could somehow have been directly responsible for 9/11 falls under what you referred to as "mental illness."

You better readjust you're foil hat, don't want to miss any signals from the mother ship...

I don't see the need to put words into my mouth. That's rude and disrespectful.

For the record: I do not believe Bush is responsible for 9/11. In fact, I think this kind of conspiracy theory is just as absurd as assuming Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent. For both theories, no hard evidence exists.
 
Okay, so he perhaps was disengenuous about his religious preference. I can understand why some who believe personal integrity is important at all levels where a person's charactor is concerned. But I can also understand how ANYONE running for public office in a post-9/11 world in the U.S. wouldn't stand a chance of being elected even to dog catcher if the public knew his or her religious preference was Muslim. The way I see it, if we as a nation of laws who claim to value our freedoms are true to said freedoms under the law, it really shouldn't matter what a person's religious preference may be. We should be more concerned with what that person does while holding office, not so much what his religious preference might be. To date, I see no evidence to support the notion of fear and mistrust that many have placed on this President.

No laws have been written that take away your freedoms.

No laws have been written that subvert the government's ability to do it's job at all levels - legistlative, executive or judicial.

Until such becomes evident, I'm fine with letting the man who the majority of American elected to the highest office in the land do his job.

He lied and deceived he is not disengenious he is dishonest and not credible.
 
Why? What are you and everyone else who's opposed to this President so afraid of? If he is a true Muslim then he will advocate a message of peace.

Because we all know that Islam is a religion of peace :2rofll:
 
In the wake of 9/11 I can't say I blame him. But again I say that since it is Muslim extremist who are causing this country so much trouble abroad, wouldn't it make more sense to have someone who knows their core believe system and understand where said beliefs are being distorted and can use their religious teachings to turn things around?


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

(Okay...poor analogy, but the point is I'd rather have someone in office who knows these religious wackos inside and out and can reason with them and probably get them to stand down than someone who only acts to antagonize them and make matters worse.)

Reason with Islamic extremist fighting a holy war. Islamic jihadist who believe that the greatest honor is to die killing infidels in the service of Allah. Islamic fanatics who are doing exactly what is expected of them according to the Quran. Dare I say it would be eaiser to reason with Charlie Manson.
 
I think it's obvious that Islam and Muslims in general are not terrorists or extremists, although extremist islamism is a problem and this problem may be larger than problems with extremism in other religions.

But over-generalizing, painting all Muslims in general with the same broad brush, won't help matters. Such islamophobia is not much better than anti-Semitism (and its line of reasoning is similar).
 
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